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Making a Case for Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    a franchise QB will get you in the playoffs almost every year as you beat up on inferior competition during the regular season. Unfortunately, in the playoffs its very rare that you can squeeze through without facing a team that has a top defense like the Jaguars, Vikings and Bills have. Even Marino had an offensive line. Remember Dwight Stephenson and company?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  2. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Looking at the sack %’s, it is no accident that the OL as a whole plays better w/o Tannehill behind center.

    He has been bottom half of the league nearly his whole career......Jay Cutler comes in and all of a sudden HE is the 8th least sacked Qb per dropback??

    Na man, that’s not a coincidence. Ryan does his part in getting sacked, he doesn’t have nor ever has had true Qb instincts.

    It’s a shame because his physical ability is certainly there. Just lacks the aptitude/feel for the position.

    No one should really waste anymore energy defending him as a Qb, he has had some unfortunate situations, but he also has personally not been anything to defend to the death.

    Let it go.....let it gooooo
     
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  3. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    somewhere on this planet Mike Wallace just dropped something
     
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  4. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Ball has to get to you, to drop it. :2guns:
     
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  5. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    :up:
    actually tannehill did alot better than Cutler last year. He wasnt sacked once. Now if you want to compare apples to apples then look at Osweillers sack numbers. Started well against the Patriots and Bears and didnt get any sacks. Then the flood gates opened....4,2,4,6 (16 sacks in 4 games) the line sucks no matter who is back there
     
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  6. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Matt Moore was sacked ONCE in 87 dropbacks when Tanny went out.
     
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  7. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stop with this. It's a conspiracy by the OL and coaching to make Tannehill look bad. The OL is connected to Miko Grimes and has a vendetta against him.
     
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  8. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    He was also destroyed about 50 times. I dont know how that man kept standing back up.
     
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  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    after the offensive line purge of 2016 tannehill had 4 games with one sack, two with two sacks and the Rams got him for 4. Noone would be complaining about those kind of numbers
     
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  10. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    He still finished the year in the 20’s in regards to sack %.

    He and Moore both rode Jay Ajayi balling and being the focal point of the offense that year.

    This Tannehill debate is a wrap. Let’s move on.
     
  11. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I wish the Tannehill debate were a wrap! Isn't that what the debate is actually about lol.. (though I agree with you of course)

    btw.. It is worth noting that sack percentage is more stable than completion%, Y/A, TD% or INT% when a QB changes teams (measured by correlation of the stat before and after changing teams), showing that the QB can be responsible for a decent portion of sack% and that high sack% doesn't necessarily suggest the QB plays behind a bad OL. It's also hard to discern what KIND of a QB you're dealing with when you have high sack percentage. For example, Steve Young's career sack% (7.94%) is basically the same as Tannehill's (7.81%) while Russell Wilson's (8.29%) is even higher. Right there you have 2 mobile QB's, one with a good OL, and one non-mobile QB with a bad OL.

    Point is, I'd be a bit careful about making too much out of sack% as a stat. Too many different ways you can get high sack%.
     
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  12. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    of course you would use the entire year. You need Dallas Thomas there to make your case. My case is what was he ranked in the weeks after the purge when he finally got to start behind a normal, not great line
     
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  13. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    So either Jay Cutler is better in the pocket, or the oft-failed most unluckiest QB of all time Ryan Tannehill just happened to be out for the year the ONLY time the Miami Dolphins had good pass blocking.

    Has to be one or the other.
     
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  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    In this case though I am comparing Cutler's 2017 vs Ryans career.

    I just find it hard to believe Ryan is that big of a victim many folks portray him as. He's just an average Qb doing average Qb things.
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Is that true? How did I not know that as the world's biggest Matt Moore fan? Now we need to rewind back to 2016 since I have new "We Want Moore!" ammunition! LOL!

    I think it's a combination of bad blocking and bad footwork. Cutler did look like a stud evading pressure but then again, he had no qualms about sliding in the pocket and then throwing it away....on every down. LOL, he just didn't care.

    This past week, Tannehill got leveled 3 or 4 times with someone coming through completely untouched. But he had what, 8 sacks on the day? I didn't even bother looking because I knew how ugly it was. But that's probably a decent sample anyway....about half were on him, about half were on Drake or a lineman messing up.
     
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  16. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    Just saw that Teddy B is getting the start for the Saints game..Preview time
     
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  17. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Oh I agree he's not the victim some people portray him as.

    Just saying one can get caught in consistency issues when using sack% as a proxy for how good/bad the OL is or how good/bad the QB is in evading pressure. For example, would you rate our OL in 2018 as the worst of Tannehill's career? I wouldn't, yet his sack% is a career high 11.3% this year, which is much higher than his career average and much higher than any previous year. And if anything Tannehill has (marginally) better pocket presence today than he did years ago.
     
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  18. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Like many of these stats n such the truth is likely in the middle.

    It's just fun talking in circles!

    For the record, I'd rather keep Ryan than Gase, that's the guy who I'm totally done with. But that's me.
     
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  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stafford is much much better that Ryan when it comes to navigating a pocket.
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Defensive coordinators love facing tannehill, they know exactly what he’s gonna do and where he’s gonna be.
     
  21. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    ryan tannehill is definitely one of the unluckiest QBs of all time. he got drafted by us didnt he? That was the first instance
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
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  22. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    There has to be a pocket to navigate one
     
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  24. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    What's this? A Frozen reference?
     
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  25. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Our OL sure gave Jay Cutler a pocket last year...
     
  26. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    That certainly isn't a prize of any sort, being drafted by the Miami Dolphins.
     
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  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Leave Mike Gesicki riding a bike out of this
     
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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He’s had plenty of pockets to navigate out of..

    If you really want to see how fu##ed up Ryan Tannehill is in the head watch the rep in the jaguar game where for the first time in five games he actually ran for a small gain..

    There is such a delay in his brain, he’s done..
     
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  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    :chuckle::up:
     
  30. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    you realize He's playing on a bum ankle I hope. He simply can't move with any quick reaction anymore. He's a statue now. You have to go back to before his ankle was stepped on to be fair to the guy
     
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  31. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    Hah to the Tannehill believers why don't you start a petition to save his job and hand it to Ross. I would love to have a hidden cam watching all these clueless Dolphin fans start cracking up!
     
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  32. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    I need to ask is the Dolphin organization any better since it drafted Tannehill? How many playoff games has he played since being drafted in 2012? I believe history has already closed the case on Tannehill.
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Prez...alright man, you still believe in the guy..I’m really not sure anything else needs to be said or seen.
     
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  34. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, sitting on the fence means you want to take action, but do not know what action to take.

    In cases like that you should get off the fence and move to a position where you can analyze the situation without dealing with a lot of uncontrolled emotions; yours or someone else's.
     
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  35. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    For me, I somewhat agree. As a QB, I think hes decent. Can we find a QB as good as him to replace him immediately, it would be a tall task IMO despite me not really care for Tannehill(as an NFL QB, I like the guy). However, there is one huge thing for me. Despite his record over the last some odd games, I dont think he is a winner. He is not the average QB that comes up in the big moments. Hes not the average QB that when the play needs to be made he makes it. Hes not the average QB that when its time to slam the door he does. Hes not the average QB that is GOOD for the team. Hes average in ALL aspects. A statistically average QB that makes big throws are good for the team. A statistically average QB that slides in the pocket and throws for 3 yard check down on 2nd down instead of standing there for a sack are good for their teams. A statistically average QB that breaks the pocket and throws it away in the early downs are good for their teams. A statistically average QB that audibles out of disaster players to pick up any positive yards are good for their teams. He is absolutely none of those. There are far worse QBs for their teams as well. But he is not a lifter.

    I am one of those fans, that would be okay with him and Gase back(with other big changes). I wouldnt be happy with it, but I would be okay with it. If Gase is gone, Tannehill needs to be gone too. If Tannehill is gone, so goes Gase for me....
     
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  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Here's the problem though. We're not dealing with 2 + 2 + x = 6, where we can easily solve for x and have a definite conclusion. There are extreme variables in play-

    - Gase and Tannehill are just below .500 for their careers
    - The offensive line has been up and down that entire time due to injury
    - This season, we're undefeated with all starters playing
    - Gase calls very conservative plays with the lead or when slightly behind
    - Of Gase's past 2 years, we're undefeated with our starting offensive line on the field
    - Of Gase's 3 years, Tannehill has missed a combined 2 years of games
    - Of Gase's 3 years, our true WR1 (Parker) has missed almost 80% and showed little in the rest
    - Of Gase's 3 years, our best corner Howard has missed over a year of playing time
    - Of Gase's 3 years, we've had several other top players out for injury
    - In 2017, we lost our bye, lost 10 practices due to the hurricane and traveled more than any other team

    Add and subtract as necessary, does that equal a coach that should be fired? I have no way to answer that.

    And honestly, we can do the same with Tannehill. Great passer. Great vision. Awesome arm. Very smart. Leads by example, etc. etc. etc. But he's bad in the pocket and inept when his line plays poorly. Note- when others play well, he's great. His only bad games come when someone else messes up. Does this guy deserve to be fired?

    For both Gase and RT, I can easily make a case for or against them. It's impossible to ignore injury...but how much do we factor that in? What about beating big teams but losing to weak ones? What about the last second collapses in must-win games? It should all factor in and I don't have the math skills to make them fit neatly for one logical answer.

    Unfortunately, that's why I'm still on the fence. Like Ross, I need to see the game today to be closer to a conclusion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
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  37. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    LOL! I need to change my user name to " The Waffler". I am all over the place on this one. :-)

    Got my new avatar all picked out:

    waffleWhiffer.jpg


    [sniff, sniff] WAFFLE!
     
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  38. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Yeah, but to be fair you shouldn't just list reasons why we should KEEP Gase.

    That equation looks different when you realize Gase is the first coach in Dolphins history to go 3 consecutive years with below average performance on both offense and defense. That equation looks different when you look at the how most long-term winning coaches started their careers: most starting a winning streak by year 3, and most HoF coaches started a winning streak by year 2.

    Those two stats override all the ones you listed because the goal is to get that long-term winning coach and the goal is to improve our offense and defensive performances. With Gase we only got worse.
     
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  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, because those two stats are extremely affected by exactly the case that Keyfin laid out.
     
  40. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    How affected? In terms of games lost to injury we're not that bad. You think none of these other coaches dealt with injuries? We're not talking one year here we're talking 3 years. Oh, and one more VERY important thing that affects the argument tremendously in favor of that long-term winning HC stat: most new HC's take over a bottom feeder. Gase actually had it good in taking over an (approx.) 8-8 team.
     
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