Two players besides Herzlich who I'm, still thinking about: John Clay and Mario Harvey. Clay must be an a-hole of Mallett sized proportions, otherwise I can't figure it out. 40 time listed at 4.87- seems awfully high for a guy who ran for a 72 yard TD, I wonder what happened there. He sure didn't look like a 4.9 guy when I saw him run- I was thinking 4.7- and I'm just surprised to see that he wasn't drafted. Say what you will about speed, but this guy is a between the tackles power runner, and bottom line- personal issues/intangibles aside- I would have drafted him.
Here are some highlights- dude can run, run with power, and he has decent wheels:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64JQSZqwR0w&feature=related
From his bio:
Honors and Awards
2010: Doak Walker Award finalist ... AP third-team All-American ... consensus second-team All-Big Ten ... Midseason: named second-team All-American by SI.com and Phil Steele and first-team All-Big Ten by Steele ... Preseason: Named playboy All-American ... second-team All-American (Athlon and Consensus Draft Services) ... third-team All-American by the Sporting News ... first-team All-Big Ten (Phil Steele, Athlon and Blue Ribbon) ... named to watch lists for Walter Camp Award, Maxwell Award and Doak Walker Award
2009: Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year ... first-team All-Big Ten by media and coaches ... honorable mention All-American (collegefootballnews.com) ... Champs Sports Bowl MVP ... first-team Midseason All-Big Ten (Phil Steele) ... preseason first-team All-Big Ten selection by Phil Steele, Athlon and Lindy's ... Doak Walker Award Preseason Watch List
2008: Honorable mention Freshman All-American by CollegeFootballNews.com ... UW's Rookie of the Year
Career
Seventh in school history with 3,413 career rushing yards ... third in school history with 5.43 yards per rush (min. 300 attempts) ... 41 career rushing touchdowns ranks fifth in school history, as does his 18 career 100-yard rushing games ... seventh at UW with 629 career carries ... eighth at Wisconsin with 240 career points ... rushed for 100+ yards and scored at least one TD in 10 straight games from 10/31/09-9/25/10
2010: Led team in rushes and rushing yards per game, second in rushing yards and rushing touchdowns, third in points and total offense ... became sixth player in school history to rush for 1,000 yards in back-to-back seasons ... scored a touchdown and gained 76 yards on 11 carries against TCU in the Rose Bowl on Jan. 1; average of 6.9 yards per carry is seventh-best in UW bowl history (min. 10 carries) ... carried four times for seven yards against Northwestern on Nov. 27 ... did not play against Michigan on Nov. 20 or Indiana on Nov. 13 due to injury ... left Purdue game on Nov. 6 due to injury after rushing for 42 yards on 12 carries ... rushed for two touchdowns and 91 yards on 24 carries and caught first pass of season for nine yards at Iowa on Oct. 23 ... UW's co-offensive player of the week after rushing for 104 yards and two touchdowns on 21 carries in win over No. 1 Ohio State on Oct. 16 ... named Big Ten co-Offensive Player of the Week after tying career-high with three rushing touchdowns and also gaining 111 yards on 21 carries against Minnesota ... carried the ball 17 times for 80 yards at Michigan State on Oct. 2 ... earned 118 yards and one TD on 15 carries against Austin Peay on Sept. 25 ... tallied 123 rushing yards and one touchdown on 22 carries against Arizona State on Sept. 18 ... gained 137 yards and scored two touchdowns (eighth-career two-TD game) on 23 carries against San Jose State on Sept. 11 ... rushed for 123 yards and two touchdowns on 17 carries at UNLV on Sept. 4
2009: Earned second letter ... played in all 13 games, starting eight ... led the Big Ten and ranked eighth in the country with 1,517 rushing yards ... that is the ninth-best single-season total in school history and the second-best by a sophomore ... 13th different Badger, and the sixth sophomore, to rush for at least 1,000 yards in a season ... led the Big Ten with 18 touchdowns, tied for 12th-best in the country ... his 18 rushing TDs tied for fourth-most in school history and tied for sixth in the country ... nine 100-yard rushing games tied for fourth in school history ... 287 carries were sixth-most in the country and 10th in UW history ... named Champs Sports Bowl MVP after rushing for 121 yards and two touchdowns on 22 carries against Miami on Dec. 29 ... named co-Big Ten Offensive Player of the Week after tying career high with three rushing touchdowns and rushing for 172 yards on 24 carries vs. Hawaii on Dec. 5 ... also named Big Ten Offensive Player of the Week after setting career highs with 184 yards rushing and three TDs (tied career high with 32 carries) at Minnesota on Oct. 3 ... rushed for 151 yards on 26 carries and scored one touchdown against Michigan on Nov. 14 ... registered 134 yards rushing and one touchdown on 15 carries in the first half, but did not play in second half, at Indiana on Nov. 7 ... tied career high with three touchdowns and gained 123 yards on 24 carries against Purdue on Oct. 31 ... 142 yards and one touchdown on a career-high 32 carries against Michigan State on Sept. 26 ... named UW's co-offensive player of the week against Fresno State on Sept. 12 after rushing for 143 yards, including a career-long 72-yard touchdown run, on 21 carries
Which brings me to Mario Harvey- did scouts not see this guy play? If he were 3 inches taller I'm thinking 1st rd pick. Sub 4.5 40 I beleive, productive as hell, instinctive, great at LOS, fast as hell and can cover. 5 foot 11, about 2 inches taller than Sam Mills and Zack Thomas, the Barney Rubble of the NFL, God love him. Mill and Thomas merit Hall of Fame discussion and Harvey- 2 inches taller than them and he can't play? Seriously? Should I even bring up Ernie Sims? Dolphins pass on Harvey to their height/weight charts I'm sure, but some team should have drafted this kid, what a shame. I hope that he sticks somewhere and has a great career. He's one of those guys that you watch and think quickly, "Wow, that dude can play." Here's some video highlights vs Ohio State- game footage moreso than Harvey highlights, so this isn't a greatest hits collection, just video from a game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AAFPs
Well, might as well show some highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlxEdPHyCc8
Dude should have been drafted, bottom line.
-
-
I think Clay is indeed that slow.
And I highly doubt Miami passed on Harvey strictly because of height/weight charts -
Clay doesn't look all that slow to me for a 250 lb power back. Any thoughts on how a guy that slow runs for a 72 yard TD or 1500 yards in a Big 12 season for that matter?
As to Harvey- really, do tell. A 5-11 250 LB who's powerful, instinctive, productive and runs a 4.46. If not the height chart then please share, what were they looking at that dissuaded them? -
OLB named Adrian Moton, that is the cat I'd like to see us pickup, a bit undersized but he has nice measurables and maybe Nolan wants a Adalius Thomas redux>?
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65971&draftyear=2011&genpos=OLB
Quinton Davies, had that 6-4 size they like and ran a 4.73:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=64920&draftyear=2011&genpos=OLB
Check out his 3 cone drill, as fast a Moton's but at 6.4 and Keith Darbut:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=64615&draftyear=2011&genpos=OLB
6'4 232 and ran a 4.38 -
What dissuaded every single other team not to draft Harvey? You find that out, and I'm sure you'd be closer to finding out why we didn't draft him than just blaming his height.
As to Clay (I can only assume you mean Big Ten, not Big XII), Wisconsin always has a very good OL, and subsequently always very good backs. Aside from getting great blocking, Clay was able to use his size to an advantage in college that wouldn't be as advantageous in the pros. Not to mention his history of injury problems certainly didn't help his cause to getting drafted.
Ron Dayne tore up the Big Ten (set career rushing yardage marks by the way and rushed for an 80 yd TD when he was a sophomore) yet couldn't do much in the NFL because he was slooooooooow. -
Hmm, disagree with that one Stitches, Dayne had a good career in the NFL and helped the Giants make it to the SB as a Rook.
I like Clay's game, think he learned the LenDale White lesson, a big back who loses weight, too much weight, becomes a slow back with nothing to offer a team.
*Eegads Stitches will have a field day with the number of times Charles Clay is called John Clay. -
Ok, now I get it- what you actually know about Mario Harvey can be summed up in two words: jack and shi*. Thanks for clearing that up. And jack, by the way, left town:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj563ViG7Qg
I love that movie.
Slow as you make out Dayne to be, he was drafted what, #11 overall? I was guessing a 40 yd dash time in around 4.6-4.7 until I read this:
Individual Workouts
Many of the top draft prospects choose to not work out at the national scouting combine, preferring instead to participate in individual workouts with teams and scouts.
Wisconsin RB Ron Dayne weighing in at 250 ran an impressive 4.53 40 yard dash.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2000/workouts.html
And this is, to quote you, "slooooooooow"?
As to Clay, he still dominated in college- your analysis strikes me as, in the words of Peter Griffin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qLFJuCCMpM
And yes, it's the Big 10, as it was when I went to a Big Ten university for 4 years. Now it has 11 teams since Penn State joined and it's soon to have 12 with Nebraska's entry about 2 months away. Thanks for pointing that out, the conversation could have gotten really confusing otherwise. -
When did I claim to know a lot about Harvey? I know all I need to at the moment, and that is that he went undrafted despite teams looking for players in all shapes and sizes (so I highly doubt his height was the deciding factor on him being passed over).
Yes Dayne was drafted #11 overall, what's your point? It was a bad selection, and he was slow in the NFL.
I never said Clay didn't dominate in college, so I don't know why you're intimating as such either.
Regardless, you seem to know everything anyways though based off your snarky reply to me, so I'm not sure why you need other people to add anything. -
I would refer to your posts in this thread not only as snarky, but stupid as well. If you're knowledge on a particuar subject is a big fat zero, don't feel obligated to comment. And what a superb philosophy as it pertains to a 7 round draft- he wasn't drafted at all, so that's all you need to know. Oustanding, soldier. So I guess that Arian Foster wasn't worth knowing either.
The point about Dayne was that he wasn't "slooooooooow" as you mentioned, and in my opnion, actually having seen John Clay play, he doesn't play slow either for such a big guy and he warranted a draft selection.
My snarkiness in this thread only followed yours. Feel free, if you have nothing knowledgeable or substantial to add- as you certainly did in this thread- to refrain from replying to my posts at all. -
What was snarky about my posts? Please point it out (aside from the last line of post #8, which is obvious but only in reply to you). I gave my opinion on certain players and my opinion on the idea that we passed on one particular player because of his size. I didn't call anything you said stupid, I didn't put in youtube clips to try and put you down, and I didn't claim any of your posts lacked substance or knowledge even when they said about as much as mine outside of copied and pasted information (as evidenced by you not knowing about Clay's surgeries).
And that's not my draft philosophy, but I'm glad that's what you go from my post. :lol: -
You're being immature right now. Just because someone disagrees with your thought process does not mean you should call someone stupid. And don't tell me "well I said his posts were stupid...." because that is a cop-out answer.
I am pretty sure since Stitches is a Penn State fan who follows the Big Ten, he has seen Clay play. You're making bull**** assumptions right now about ones knowledge.
And for the record, John Clay isn't an NFL back in my opinion. He is slow. And it showed. In the BIG TEN. Clay had the benefit of playing behind a great offensive line... Not to mention, Clay wasn't even the best running back on his team this year.Skeet84 likes this. -
Really? Why don't you actually grow up and realize that not everyone will agree with you. Stitches has been around this site a long time and usually gives great opinions with facts that back them up. I actually agree with him about Clay. The guy is big and slow. He dances way more than a man his size should. If he used his size more rather than trying to juke players he probably would have been drafted. Wisconsin is known for putting out NFL lineman (this year Moffit drafted by SeaHawks in the 3rd I believe.). Which may have contributed to the success that Clay had as a RB in college. We also don't need a big back after drafting Thomas in the 2nd round. We need a guy with more speed and most short yardage situations have gone to Polite. No need for Clay.
Please stop acting like a child who doesn't get his way then starts crying and calling people names. We all are going to disagree from time to time, but hearing opinions and getting different point of views is a lot of the fun of this site. -
I can't foresee how anyone could say Dayne had a "good career"..
And Clay work ethic or lack there of is well noted -
Team went to the SB when he teamed up with Tiki Barber, he played 8 seasons or so when running backs usually last 3 or 4 yrs, that is a decent career imo.
-
He had a 3.4 YPC the year they went to the super...as a back up RB at there. Where RBs tend to run for higher YPC at. With one of the best OLs in football no less..
Dayne never had a 800+ yard season. Career YPC under 4. Never was a feature back. Was out of football before 30...
Many players have been on superbowl teams when singly they hadnt had good careers. That means nothing.
Him having a "good" career is pretty absurd