Miguel Cabrera wins Triple Crown, but is he the MVP?

"Boik14 wrote:

I couldnt see that at all. Hes a closer and while great at it (amazing k/9 rate and not once gave up 2 hits in an inning), he couldnt sustain those stats as a SP which is quite honestly a harder position even if its less physically taxing. Additionally, you and I both know anytime a SP wins 20 no closer has a shot because thats just how these voters think whether its right or wrong. I wouldnt object if you put Kimbrel above Gio based on the fact that Gio wasnt as good statistically as Dickey or Kershaw but to me Dickey and Kershaw are far and away the top 2.

First pitcher in the history of baseball to pitch 50 innings and K half the batters he faced, and as you said never gave up 2 hits in an inning.

Sheer dominance.

Kershaw and Dickey are as neck and neck as it gets. I'd probably vote Dickey, if only because he looks a little bit like Chuck Norris.

As dominant as Kimbrel was, and you probably can't get more dominant than that as a pitcher, he still pitched about a quarter of the innings that those two did. Just can't give it to him.

I think AL Cy Young is interesting as well. IMO you got to have 2 Tampa pitchers in the top 4.

"HardKoreXXX wrote:

First pitcher in the history of baseball to pitch 50 innings and K half the batters he faced, and as you said never gave up 2 hits in an inning.

Sheer dominance.

Id agree he was dominant but no one would give two poops if he wasnt a closer (which is actually sad since saves are the weakest stat of all). Im not saying Id object to him being top 3 and bonus points for him helping me win my fantasy baseball pay league by .1 in WHIP and ERA, but thers no way Id take his year over Dickey or Kershaws.

Dickey IMO was especially impressive because as a knuckleballer he doesnt have the pure ability that Kimbrel, Gio, Cueto and Kershaw have. If his knuckleball isnt knuckling he gets pounded where guys like Kershaw and Kimbrel have the ability to just blow a 95 MPH fastball by someone. That makes Dickeys job that much harder and hes reliant on a pitch thats much harder to control and yet his walk rate was one of the lowest, if not the lowest ever, for a knuckleball pitcher.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

I think AL Cy Young is interesting as well. IMO you got to have 2 Tampa pitchers in the top 4.

Price or Verlander. No one else is really in the conversation...maybe Weaver but its a longshot. Cant go wrong either way.

Trout was clearly the best player in baseball, and clearly meant the most to his team. Angels were terrible when the season started, and that changed the moment Trout came up. Tigers making the playoffs from a weaker division doesn't impress me enough for that to make up for what Trut did.

Miggy is a great hitter. Baseball is more than just hitting, and Trout showed that.

What Miggy did hasn't been done in 45yrs, what Trout did (and at his age) has never been done.

Triple Crown is cool, but it never guaranteed someone the MVP in the past, and it shouldn't now. Does he deserve the MVP because Hamilton didn't hit 1 or 2 more HR? At 44 HR hes automatically the MVP, but 42 and suddenly not?

I thought only an epic collapse by Trout could have not had him getting the MVP. I didnt see Miggy getting the HR's needed. Josh fell off the planet for awhile there.

While Trout had an epic rookie year i think the voters will go out of Miggy for getting the TC and out of "respect"

I agree but i dont think the old school voters are going to see it that way. The TC is the TC .. It is going to be damn close though.

Who would have thought the Angels could have signed Pujols and he would be the 2nd best player on that team... Its amazing to bad their starters really stunk outside of Weaver.

"padre31 wrote:

"Good" or entertaining to watch?

This to me is where MLB has run off of the rails, stats are fine, however games are played 1 at a time and going to see a guy who can throw a no hitter each time out, or walk 12, all the while throwing 100 mph, is devalued in favor of a sort of dry, CPA approach in overview, not game by game.

If stats didnt matter to fans how can you explain how popular fantasy leagues are? They are stat driven.....

I said in the other thread it will be quite interesting to see the breakdown for who votes for Triple Crown and who votes for WAR in essence. The old school vs new school. Will be interesting split.

Just thought I'd bump up this thread as the MVP voting is tonight. Either way it's going to be a fun debate with whoever wins.

I personally think Mike Trout should win simply because I think he had the better season over Cabrera not only with the bat but also with his defense and base running. I do not think simply because Miguel Cabrera won the Triple Crown he should be given the award. Yes it's a nice footnote on his season but it's not the be all end all in the discussion.

"Ray Finkle wrote:

Just thought I'd bump up this thread as the MVP voting is tonight. Either way it's going to be a fun debate with whoever wins.

I personally think Mike Trout should win simply because I think he had the better season over Cabrera not only with the bat but also with his defense and base running. I do not think simply because Miguel Cabrera won the Triple Crown he should be given the award. Yes it's a nice footnote on his season but it's not the be all end all in the discussion.

Agreed. Theres a handful of important notes imo that have to be taken in to consideration:

1. Trout's WAR is one of the single best WAR seasons in the last 50 years. Top 10 actually. Cabrera's WAR season is very good but not nearly on the same level.
2. Trout was 27.6% of his teams total WAR; Cabrera's was 33%.
3. The idea that Cabrera should get the award based on his team making the playoffs is idiotic when you consider the Angels had more wins, in a harder division, despite MASSIVE underachievement by their staff aside from Weaver. The Angels were 6-14 in April before Trouts call up and 83-59 the rest of the way
4. The Triple Crown is some made up sportswriter award. It does not automatically grant you passing "Go", do not collect $200, do not automatically collect your MVP. Raw stats arent to be ignored; on the contrary, I like them. But Trout did have a more complete season. What automatically qualifies BA/RBI/HR as the Triple Crown? What makes RBI more important then Runs? Nothing. Actually Runs are far more important since a player can score only 1x per at bat but will frequently get opportunities to drive in more then 1 run in an AB.
5. Regardless of this, Cabrera will win because half of the writers dont even know what WAR is.
EDIT: 6. Cabrera won in OPS 999 to 963. Trout stole 49 bases. Those are basically doubles. So Trout basically wins in OPS as well since the whole idea of slugging is to advance as far as one can before the next batter concludes his at bat.
The saddest thing was last night on BSPN they had a roundtable discussion about the award with 7 writers. Gammons and 2 others thought Trout should win based on some of things I cited. Billy Ripken, Harold Reynolds and two others basically laughed at the idea of WAR and sabermetrics and said it should be Cabrera simply because of the triple crown.

I go for Cabrera on this. Beyond simply being the Triple Crown inner, is team DID become the AL East Champs. I realize that it is a regular season award, but Miggy taking his team to the playoffs and Trout not, should count for something.

"Boik14 wrote:

Agreed. Theres a handful of important notes imo that have to be taken in to consideration:

1. Trout's WAR is one of the single best WAR seasons in the last 50 years. Top 10 actually. Cabrera's WAR season is very good but not nearly on the same level.
2. Trout was 27.6% of his teams total WAR; Cabrera's was 33%.
3. The idea that Cabrera should get the award based on his team making the playoffs is idiotic when you consider the Angels had more wins, in a harder division, despite MASSIVE underachievement by their staff aside from Weaver. The Angels were 6-14 in April before Trouts call up and 83-59 the rest of the way
4. The Triple Crown is some made up sportswriter award. It does not automatically grant you passing "Go", do not collect $200, do not automatically collect your MVP. Raw stats arent to be ignored; on the contrary, I like them. But Trout did have a more complete season. What automatically qualifies BA/RBI/HR as the Triple Crown? What makes RBI more important then Runs? Nothing. Actually Runs are far more important since a player can score only 1x per at bat but will frequently get opportunities to drive in more then 1 run in an AB.
5. Regardless of this, Cabrera will win because half of the writers dont even know what WAR is.
EDIT: 6. Cabrera won in OPS 999 to 963. Trout stole 49 bases. Those are basically doubles. So Trout basically wins in OPS as well since the whole idea of slugging is to advance as far as one can before the next batter concludes his at bat.
The saddest thing was last night on BSPN they had a roundtable discussion about the award with 7 writers. Gammons and 2 others thought Trout should win based on some of things I cited. Billy Ripken, Harold Reynolds and two others basically laughed at the idea of WAR and sabermetrics and said it should be Cabrera simply because of the triple crown.

Well yeah all of this too.

"Samphin wrote:

I go for Cabrera on this. Beyond simply being the Triple Crown inner, is team DID become the AL East Champs. I realize that it is a regular season award, but Miggy taking his team to the playoffs and Trout not, should count for something.

He didn't, though. Getting to the playoffs is a team effort.

"Samphin wrote:

I go for Cabrera on this. Beyond simply being the Triple Crown inner, is team DID become the AL East Champs. I realize that it is a regular season award, but Miggy taking his team to the playoffs and Trout not, should count for something.

Yessir.

"Samphin wrote:

I go for Cabrera on this. Beyond simply being the Triple Crown inner, is team DID become the AL East Champs. I realize that it is a regular season award, but Miggy taking his team to the playoffs and Trout not, should count for something.

The Tigers went 88 and 74. The Angels went 89 and 73. Should we give extra credit to Cabrera for being fortunate to playing in one of the weakest divisions in baseball while punishing Trout because he played in a tougher division (where 2 teams that won over 93 games ended up making the playoffs)? Sorry that argument is silly, win/loss records and whether or not teams make the playoffs is more of a function of the team aspect of baseball. The MVP award is about a single player, even says so in the title of the award.

Congrats to Buster Posey. Hurts to say he was almost a Marlin. Just one pick away.

"Samphin wrote:

I go for Cabrera on this. Beyond simply being the Triple Crown inner, is team DID become the AL East Champs. I realize that it is a regular season award, but Miggy taking his team to the playoffs and Trout not, should count for something.

Even though the Angels won more games?

What about the fact that Mike Trout went 81-58 while on the Angels, good for a .587 winning percentage, while Cabrera went 87-74, good for a .540 winning percentage.

Seems unfair to award Cabrera the MVP, on the grounds of the AL Central being hot dog****

"Anonymous wrote:

Congrats to Buster Posey. Hurts to say he was almost a Marlin. Just one pick away.

He never would have been a Marlin.

"Mainge wrote:

He never would have been a Marlin.

Why not?

Cabrera won. Boo. In a landslide.

Never would have paid his signing bonus. Still would have taken Skip.

"Anonymous wrote:

Cabrera won. Boo. In a landslide.

HA. TAKE THAT SPREADSHEET NERDS! YAY RBIs.

"Mainge wrote:

Never would have paid his signing bonus. Still would have taken Skip.

Oh. Yea, this happened when I was like 13, haha. I wasn't familiar with that.