My Ideal Dolphins Draft [Post Yours]

Draft Tavon, trade Bess for 4th. Great scenario.

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"Fin-Omenal wrote:

Draft Tavon, trade Bess for 4th. Great scenario.

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A 4th is way too low for Bess, I would say a low 2nd or early 3rd at a minimum. The Patriots set the market with the Welker trade, so even that's a discount. As for Austin, I think Swope is a better value; he's every bit as fast (maybe not quite as shifty), he's bigger and therefor will hold up better in the NFL, and Tannehill already has a rapport with him.

If you want a Harvin clone, go to the source in the 2014 draft and draft Andre Debose, who is a projected 2nd-3rd rounder. Use the 2014 1st round pick on Austin Seferian-Jenkins.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

A 4th is way too low for Bess, I would say a low 2nd or early 3rd at a minimum. The Patriots set the market with the Welker trade, so even that's a discount. As for Austin, I think Swope is a better value; he's every bit as fast (maybe not quite as shifty), he's bigger and therefor will hold up better in the NFL, and Tannehill already has a rapport with him.

If you want a Harvin clone, go to the source in the 2014 draft and draft Andre Debose, who is a projected 2nd-3rd rounder. Use the 2014 1st round pick on Austin Seferian-Jenkins.

I think you're seriously over valuing Bess, as he doesn't have good speed, and frankly he doesn't score much either. Also, what Welker trade are you referring to? The one that happened 6 years ago? If so, just remember we tagged him at that price tag, not the Patriots. So if anything we set the market with that tender, also if Marshall got us 2 3rd round picks given his production, why would a team give anyone a 2nd for Davone Bess? That GM would be out of a job very quickly IMO.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

A 4th is way too low for Bess, I would say a low 2nd or early 3rd at a minimum. The Patriots set the market with the Welker trade, so even that's a discount. As for Austin, I think Swope is a better value; he's every bit as fast (maybe not quite as shifty), he's bigger and therefor will hold up better in the NFL, and Tannehill already has a rapport with him.

If you want a Harvin clone, go to the source in the 2014 draft and draft Andre Debose, who is a projected 2nd-3rd rounder. Use the 2014 1st round pick on Austin Seferian-Jenkins.

I thought the 4th was generous.

1- He is okay...but nothing spectacular.
2- He is an impending FA so it could b a one year rejtal

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"Conuficus wrote:

I think you're seriously over valuing Bess, as he doesn't have good speed, and frankly he doesn't score much either. Also, what Welker trade are you referring to? The one that happened 6 years ago? If so, just remember we tagged him at that price tag, not the Patriots. So if anything we set the market with that tender, also if Marshall got us 2 3rd round picks given his production, why would a team give anyone a 2nd for Davone Bess? That GM would be out of a job very quickly IMO.

If a receiver-poor team won't give up a 2nd for a proven slot receiver that's only making 3 million, then you don't trade him. You literally can't replace the guy outside of the 2nd or 3rd round. And if you're going to draft a rookie, he'd damn well better be a decent route runner with all world speed at the very minimum. That means Swope.

"Fin-Omenal wrote:

I thought the 4th was generous.

1- He is okay...but nothing spectacular.
2- He is an impending FA so it could b a one year rejtal

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Guy, listen to yourself. He's our only slot receiver. We only have Wallace, Hartline, and Bess who have produced 100+ yard games.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

If a receiver-poor team won't give up a 2nd for a proven slot receiver that's only making 3 million, then you don't trade him. You literally can't replace the guy outside of the 2nd or 3rd round. And if you're going to draft a rookie, he'd damn well better be a decent route runner with all world speed at the very minimum. That means Swope.

That's odd.... considering the guy you're talking about wasn't even drafted. Bess is worth a 4th at best.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

1.12 - Eric Fisher/Lane Johnson (OT)
2.42 - Darius Slay (CB)
2.54 - Jamar Taylor (CB)
3.77 - Blidi Wreh-Wilson (CB)
3.82 - Ryan Swope (WR)
4.110 - David Quessenberry (C/G)
5.146 - Chris Harper (WR)
5.166 - Chris Gragg (TE)
7.217 - Caleb Sturgis (K)
7.224 - Michael Clay (OLB)
7.250 - Kenny Cain (ILB)

I think you should add another CB to the 5th or 7th round just to be safe.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

Guy, listen to yourself. He's our only slot receiver. We only have Wallace, Hartline, and Bess who have produced 100+ yard games.

Drafting an Austin would make trading Bess logical. He has one year left....he's solid but adding a playmaker in the slot makes more sense to me. And please do not pretend Bess is some 100ypg machine.

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While a good player, no one is trading a 2nd for Bess. I love Bess and love what he has done for the team thru the years but I will be beyond surprised to see a team give up a 2nd for him. The talent level in the 2nd/3rd round range for receivers is too good to give up a 2nd for Bess. Yes they are unproven, but also think that Bess has shown his ceiling. I believe the GM's would rather gamble on the fact that these receivers may have a higher ceiling. I think a fourth, if we do trade him would be generous.

I think three corners is a bit much. I'd rather have a safety at 42 like Cyprien or Thomas. That's to many high end resources. I understand the logic, just think its being over done a bit. I like the Chris Harper pick and Swope would make sense if Bess is traded. Not sure about Gragg as there other people that I like above him but I wouldn't be upset with the pick. No defensive ends? I think we are going to be taking one between rounds 1-4.

If Miami got a 4th for Bess, they would be laughing in their draft room about getting a steal. That's the reality of teams valuing draft choices. They would only get a 4th or 5th for him. But, I'd do it and draft a couple of young guys.

Too many CBs and too many WRs IMO. I like both WRs, but I could only see us taking one before rd 7 personally. Similarly, that's way too many CBs in the top 3 rounds.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

A 4th is way too low for Bess, I would say a low 2nd or early 3rd at a minimum. The Patriots set the market with the Welker trade, so even that's a discount. As for Austin, I think Swope is a better value; he's every bit as fast (maybe not quite as shifty), he's bigger and therefor will hold up better in the NFL, and Tannehill already has a rapport with him.

Nope, Swope isn't every bit as fast. Not even the same ballpark to call it close enough.
"Bigger and therefore will hold up better"? Huh? Being bigger doesn't prevent brain injuries. Austin never missed a practice in high school & college, meanwhile Swope is already a concussion concern. It seems your desire for Swope has left you making things up. Swope is a receiver; Austin is an Xfactor. Big difference.

If you want a Harvin clone, go to the source in the 2014 draft and draft Andre Debose, who is a projected 2nd-3rd rounder. Use the 2014 1st round pick on Austin Seferian-Jenkins.

Your logic doesn't make any sense. If we want a Harvin/Austin type player then why should we use a valuable pick on Swope this year only to replace him next year with Debose? Draft Austin and be done with it.

"phinsational wrote:

Nope, Swope isn't every bit as fast. Not even the same ballpark to call it close enough.
"Bigger and therefore will hold up better"? Huh? Being bigger doesn't prevent brain injuries. Austin never missed a practice in high school & college, meanwhile Swope is already a concussion concern. It seems your desire for Swope has left you making things up. Swope is a receiver; Austin is an Xfactor. Big difference.

Your logic doesn't make any sense. If we want a Harvin/Austin type player then why should we use a valuable pick on Swope this year only to replace him next year with Debose? Draft Austin and be done with it.

Right?

If you want an Austin then don't draft Austin?

"PerfectTeam wrote:

While a good player, no one is trading a 2nd for Bess. I love Bess and love what he has done for the team thru the years but I will be beyond surprised to see a team give up a 2nd for him. The talent level in the 2nd/3rd round range for receivers is too good to give up a 2nd for Bess. Yes they are unproven, but also think that Bess has shown his ceiling. I believe the GM's would rather gamble on the fact that these receivers may have a higher ceiling. I think a fourth, if we do trade him would be generous.

Bess has shown his ceiling in an offense that runs, at max, four receiver sets once in a blue moon. If what's been going around is true, we're going to be seeing them as often as Green Bay does. That's a different animal entirely.

I think three corners is a bit much. I'd rather have a safety at 42 like Cyprien or Thomas. That's to many high end resources. I understand the logic, just think its being over done a bit.

According to a lot of objective ratings, we have the best safety tandem in the league. On the other hand, we have literally nobody at corner. You draft three rookies and let them fight it out for who gets the boundary and who gets the first slot. Then you make the vets fight for the dime position. I happen to think Jamar Taylor is the ideal slot corner with his toughness and blitzing ability, but that's just me.

I like the Chris Harper pick and Swope would make sense if Bess is traded. Not sure about Gragg as there other people that I like above him but I wouldn't be upset with the pick. No defensive ends? I think we are going to be taking one between rounds 1-4.

Swope is for the other slot position this season and Harper is Bess' replacement for the 2014 season. I chose Gragg because I like his speed and other measurables. I want Margus Hunt bad, but for that to happen Bess needs to be traded for an early second. Corner is too critical to not go early and often.

"phinsational wrote:

Nope, Swope isn't every bit as fast. Not even the same ballpark to call it close enough.

Austin's official 40 time is 4.34, which is the same as Swope's official time. So, yes, they run the exact same speed in a straight line.

"Bigger and therefore will hold up better"? Huh? Being bigger doesn't prevent brain injuries. Austin never missed a practice in high school & college, meanwhile Swope is already a concussion concern. It seems your desire for Swope has left you making things up. Swope is a receiver; Austin is an Xfactor. Big difference.

Austin isn't Percy Harvin, he doesn't have anywhere near Harvin's bulk. I think he's going to be in trouble the first time he goes on a crossing route and has a face-to-face meeting with an NFL linebacker.

Your logic doesn't make any sense. If we want a Harvin/Austin type player then why should we use a valuable pick on Swope this year only to replace him next year with Debose? Draft Austin and be done with it.

Swope isn't Percy Harvin Mk 2. I never said he was. He's very fast and he's relatively tall, which means he's a seam threat from the slot. A guy like Harvin or Austin or Debose is the underneath guy in a three verticals passing concept, which the west coast offense uses a lot; the danger of a player like that taking it to the house means the opposing defense has to keep their linebackers in hook or buzz zones rather than playing underneath robber on the verticals.

Bess has shown his ceiling in an offense that runs, at max, four receiver sets once in a blue moon. If what's been going around is true, we're going to be seeing them as often as Green Bay does. That's a different animal entirely

You do realize we trotted out 4 wide outs quite a bit last year right? Its just that the other guys outside of Hartline and Bess were either a rookie, or a later season pickup or Marlon Moore and Legadu Nanee etc. for instance? Just because the other guys didn't get the ball much doesn't mean we didn't show 4 wide, its just that other guys sucked and couldn't get open.

You're overvaluing Bess by a good country mile. Sorry, but its true.

Also you do realize Bess had his second highest receiving yardage total last year despite missing the final 3 games, and that he was only 42 yards away from that when he got injured? Because looked pretty much to all the world that his best year would be last year until his injury. Even then, its not that great to be honest.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

Bess has shown his ceiling in an offense that runs, at max, four receiver sets once in a blue moon. If what's been going around is true, we're going to be seeing them as often as Green Bay does. That's a different animal entirely.

That doesn't mean that Bess all of a sudden he is going to be putting up Jordy Nelson/Greg Jennings type numbers just because he is switching to an offense that runs 4 receiver sets constantly. He still is what he is, a receiver that can create some separation underneath and provide a nice security blanket. That's about it. Bess isn't beating anyone deep or putting up huge touchdown numbers. You don't trade a 2nd for a receiver that's at best going to be your 3rd or 4th receiver.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

According to a lot of objective ratings, we have the best safety tandem in the league. On the other hand, we have literally nobody at corner. You draft three rookies and let them fight it out for who gets the boundary and who gets the first slot. Then you make the vets fight for the dime position. I happen to think Jamar Taylor is the ideal slot corner with his toughness and blitzing ability, but that's just me.

Clemons is on a one year and while I'm glad he is back, I want someone to trade underneath him. Again to use the ceiling comment, he has show what he is. To me he is the Davone Bess of defense. A steady performer who you know what he is capable/incapable of. He isn't the guy that's going to make a lot of gaming changing plays, but he isn't going to let a lot of game changing plays happen either. Picking up someone to pair with Jones such as Cyprien or Thomas who at least have to be playmakers, albeit at the college level, is something this team sorely needs.

Again, taking that many corners is a poor use of resources to me. It's overkill. Jamar Taylor is a nice prospect, as is Slay and Wilson. I just don't think you need to draft all three. Two will suffice just fine. Someone like Phillip Thomas can play in the dime just fine.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

Swope is for the other slot position this season and Harper is Bess' replacement for the 2014 season. I chose Gragg because I like his speed and other measurables. I want Margus Hunt bad, but for that to happen Bess needs to be traded for an early second. Corner is too critical to not go early and often.

I have no issue with Swope or Harper. I just don't think we need both. Harper would add that physical receiver that we don't have. I just don't see the physical presence of a James Jones or Anquan Boldin on this unit. Gibson can play the slot, as can Hartline. Gragg, again like I said I have no issue. I just prefer Kelce, Escobar, Fauria, Toilolo and few others above him. Personally we need a more well rounded TE such as Dion Sims. I think we need someone to block and block well. It's where Michael Williams would come in. Not my first choice but wouldn't mind the selection. I don't see the love for Margus Hunt. He isn't replacing Wake in a couple of years. If anything he is going to be a 5 technique at the next level. There are more exciting players at DE than him to me.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

If a receiver-poor team won't give up a 2nd for a proven slot receiver that's only making 3 million, then you don't trade him. You literally can't replace the guy outside of the 2nd or 3rd round. And if you're going to draft a rookie, he'd damn well better be a decent route runner with all world speed at the very minimum. That means Swope.

This deserves a chuckle considering in the other Draft thread you said you took Chris Harper in the 5th round to replace him. :lol:

"Fin D wrote:

Right?

If you want an Austin then don't draft Austin?

No, it makes more sense to get a lesser version of Austin next year and waste a 3rd round pick this year to temporarily hold down the position. :unsure:

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

According to a lot of objective ratings, we have the best safety tandem in the league. On the other hand, we have literally nobody at corner. You draft three rookies and let them fight it out for who gets the boundary and who gets the first slot. Then you make the vets fight for the dime position. I happen to think Jamar Taylor is the ideal slot corner with his toughness and blitzing ability, but that's just me.

So what you're saying is you prefer to draft on need than value and that you'd rather overdraft one position just to be sure even though by doing so it essentially means costing ourselves an opportunity to upgrade another position? yeah, no thanks.

Swope is for the other slot position this season and Harper is Bess' replacement for the 2014 season. I chose Gragg because I like his speed and other measurables. I want Margus Hunt bad, but for that to happen Bess needs to be traded for an early second. Corner is too critical to not go early and often.

WOW, you really like to overdo it in the slot don't you? Add Keller, Clay, and Egnew to the 4 you already listed and nobody will be getting many targets if you have it your way. I think you're missing the fact Keller will serve as the other slot receiver much of the time just as Jermichael Finley has been 2nd & 3rd in targets the past 2 years in GB. Our 4 wide with Tavon Austin is: Wallace - Austin - Keller - Hartline. That becomes one of the league's top lineups and one of the most difficult to defend. Then from there we have a backup receiver, Gibson, who led the NFL in combined TD-1st Down percentage last year, and Gibson & Hartline are both quite capable of occasionally lining up inside.

"phinsational wrote:

This deserves a chuckle considering in the other Draft thread you said you took Chris Harper in the 5th round to replace him. :lol:

After a year of development. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Bess had a 2nd round grade by the draft committee the year he came out.

"DearbornDolfan wrote:

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Bess had a 2nd round grade by the draft committee the year he came out.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but 32 NFL teams apparently didn't listen to them.

"phinsational wrote:

WOW, you really like to overdo it in the slot don't you?

Keller, Clay, and Egnew will have their roles as WCO tight ends in two and three receiver sets. It's neither desirable nor possible from a strategy perspective to run four receiver sets all the time, but you certainly need the personnel to do it at all.