NASA: 2 Trillion Tons of Ice Have Melted Since 2003

Dont buy any properties close to the sea.:wink2:

The economic crisis may put the global warming problem in the backburner.:sad:

Dr. Ricky Rood, who blogs at Weather Underground has a ton of information in his climate series. If this subject interests you at all, you should probably peruse this index.

Dr. Rood wrote:

This is a collection and organization of my blogs on Weather Underground. It is evolving and, let's say, under construction. I'm looking for a better, more modern way to do this, but I'm old and slow and wonder where the herd has gone.

Wunderground Blogs From Openclimate

Here is a temperature graph that would support the melt;

Justifying Climate Science:

Dr. Rood wrote:

Figure 1: September global average surface temperature from the National Climatic Data Center. “The combined global land and ocean surface temperature for September 2008 tied with 2001 as the ninth warmest since records began in 1880. The September global land surface temperature tied with 2004 as the eleventh warmest on record, while the global ocean surface temperature tied with 2001 as the seventh warmest in the 129-year record. The January-September year-to-date land and ocean temperature was the ninth warmest on record.”

Here are some blogs relating to surface melt;

Dr. Rood wrote:

Ice on the Land (Ice Sheets and Glaciers)
Fast Ice 1: This blog discusses Richard Alley's description of how glaciers on land behave like pancake batter - or why ice melts when it gets warmer.

Fast Ice: Redux - West Antarctica This blog returns to some ideas presented several months earlier. It focuses on research of the rapid melting in West Antarctica and the role of warming ocean in accelerating melting.

The End of Ice: This blog discusses the melting of glaciers such as those near the coast of Greenland and the West Antarctic Ice Shelf

Warm Snow: This blog discusses the increase in snow in Greenland and Antarctica - or why the ice sheets might grow when it gets warmer.

The comments associated with these blogs are worth the peruse also.

"cnc66 wrote:

Dr. Ricky Rood, who blogs at Weather Underground has a ton of information in his climate series. If this subject interests you at all, you should probably peruse this index.

Wunderground Blogs From Openclimate

Here is a temperature graph that would support the melt;

Justifying Climate Science:

Here are some blogs relating to surface melt;

The comments associated with these blogs are worth the peruse also.

Thanks brother. I posted the same data from the NOAA a couple times along with pictures of melting glaciers, ice caps, etc yet we still get the occasional "the earth has been cooling for the past _______ years". I've been conducting my own experiments here at home. I keep lowering the temperature in my freezer to see if my ice melts. So far, no luck.

Celtkin wrote:

I've been conducting my own experiments here at home. I keep lowering the temperature in my freezer to see if my ice melts. So far, no luck

snort.. I look forward to your paper

"Celtkin wrote:

Thanks brother. I posted the same data from the NOAA a couple times along with pictures of melting glaciers, ice caps, etc yet we still get the occasional "the earth has been cooling for the past _______ years". I've been conducting my own experiments here at home. I keep lowering the temperature in my freezer to see if my ice melts. So far, no luck.

obviously its so cold, its hot. duh.

I am of the opinion that the ice melt we are seeing is going to be dramatically worse than many predict. I think the sea levels will rise much quicker than expected and some very hard decisions will have to be made as to saving many major cities. With that in mind, you younger fellas could make some prescient land purchases that could make your descendants very wealthy. Here is a sea level risk map of Florida. Here is a link that will let you enlarge the image for better perusal.

sea level risks

Arctic ice regrows in different regions of the same ice cluster. Meanwhile, 2008 global temperatures are down 1/10th of one degree compared to 2007.

Perhaps NASA could venture to New Orleans and collect some of the inch-plus of snow that fell, then shovel it onto the glaciers.

"Desides wrote:

Arctic ice regrows in different regions of the same ice cluster. Meanwhile, 2008 global temperatures are down 1/10th of one degree compared to 2007.

Perhaps NASA could venture to New Orleans and collect some of the inch-plus of snow that fell, then shovel it onto the glaciers.

Quoting from Marty's article

“The combined global land and ocean surface temperature for September 2008 tied with 2001 as the ninth warmest since records began in 1880.

Brrr

"Desides wrote:

Arctic ice regrows in different regions of the same ice cluster. Meanwhile, 2008 global temperatures are down 1/10th of one degree compared to 2007.

Perhaps NASA could venture to New Orleans and collect some of the inch-plus of snow that fell, then shovel it onto the glaciers.

Let's say there is a natural ebb & flow of global temperatures. Would you not agree that sometimes that ebb & flow peaks further than normal? Essentially, do the temperatures not get higher or lower sometimes?

If so, end of story time to be concerned. Who cares at this point if its natural or caused by man.

"Celtkin wrote:

Quoting from Marty's article
Brrr

Without all the other years how can we make a conclusion? I'm not saying you're wrong celt, but what if 2007 is the hottest year ever, or 2006, and its coming back from it?

From your link in the comments:

I am a novice to this area so I'm just throwing that out there, not proclaiming it as at the end all be all.

What is the weather underground anyway, is that Bill Ayers' group? :lol:

"jdang307 wrote:

Without all the other years how can we make a conclusion? I'm not saying you're wrong celt, but what if 2007 is the hottest year ever, or 2006, and its coming back from it?

From your link in the comments:

I am a novice to this area so I'm just throwing that out there, not proclaiming it as at the end all be all.

What is the weather underground anyway, is that Bill Ayers' group? :lol:

Marty posted the recorded data from the late 1800's to 2008. The data is averaged (half of the temperatures above and half below the line) and clearly shows higher than average temperatures of late. Add that to the fact that ice is melting over the same period, it is not unreasonable to interpret a cause and effect relationship.

Duh. The graphic is staring me right in the face :D Told You i isn't no expert.

But I think both of you guys are right. First, it is still pretty warm historically, second, it's cooling.

"Desides wrote:

Arctic ice regrows in different regions of the same ice cluster. Meanwhile, 2008 global temperatures are down 1/10th of one degree compared to 2007.

Perhaps NASA could venture to New Orleans and collect some of the inch-plus of snow that fell, then shovel it onto the glaciers.

Maybe you could go follow one of those links I posted which discusses this sort of issue and stop the smarmy stuff Desides. If you cannot participate by addition then perhaps you should leave the thread.

"Finascious D wrote:

Let's say there is a natural ebb & flow of global temperatures. Would you not agree that sometimes that ebb & flow peaks further than normal? Essentially, do the temperatures not get higher or lower sometimes?

If so, end of story time to be concerned. Who cares at this point if its natural or caused by man.

i dont see why its not plausible man could speed up the effect of natural warming cycles?

"FinSane wrote:

i dont see why its not plausible man could speed up the effect of natural warming cycles?

One of the possibilities that exist with some weight is this. We are in a solar cooling cycle but the raised co2 levels have counteracted the event for the moment. We could be in a mini ice age right now but for our contributions. Remember, there is zero doubt that we are losing ice worlwide, an interesting note on that is there is a camp that suggests that the melting could also trigger cooling by interuption of the global ocean currents. We are warming yet much evidence is out there that our overall total solar energy added has declined.

It doesn't matter who or what causes it, the fact remains that you younger guys will se some changes worldwide in temperature and sea levels in your lifetime. You will have hard decisions on what to do with our coastal cities. I'm telling you, there is major money to be had by forward thinking people.

"cnc66 wrote:

One of the possibilities that exist with some weight is this. We are in a solar cooling cycle but the raised co2 levels have counteracted the event for the moment. We could be in a mini ice age right now but for our contributions. Remember, there is zero doubt that we are losing ice worlwide, an interesting note on that is there is a camp that suggests that the melting could also trigger cooling by interuption of the global ocean currents. We are warming yet much evidence is out there that our overall total solar energy added has declined.

Thats pretty much my take on it.

"cnc66 wrote:

It doesn't matter who or what causes it, the fact remains that you younger guys will se some changes worldwide in temperature and sea levels in your lifetime. You will have hard decisions on what to do with our coastal cities. I'm telling you, there is major money to be had by forward thinking people.

Are you saying to buy future beach front property :lol:

"cnc66 wrote:

Maybe you could go follow one of those links I posted which discusses this sort of issue and stop the smarmy stuff Desides. If you cannot participate by addition then perhaps you should leave the thread.

I did. My previous post was my response. Global cooling cannot cause global warming.

As for glaciers: I have no doubt that there are melting glaciers in the (ant)arctic. What does not get reported or otherwise publicized is that glaciers simultaneously add new ice. The net effect is that worldwide glacier coverage is actually increasing, because the new additions more than make up for the melting. I've posted data on this multiple times in this subforum, and it gets ignored or outright derided.

"Desides wrote:

I did. My previous post was my response. Global cooling cannot cause global warming.

As for glaciers: I have no doubt that there are melting glaciers in the (ant)arctic. What does not get reported or otherwise publicized is that glaciers simultaneously add new ice. The net effect is that worldwide glacier coverage is actually increasing, because the new additions more than make up for the melting. I've posted data on this multiple times in this subforum, and it gets ignored or outright derided.

Ice is melting at a greater rate than it is forming. Recorded temperatures from 1880 to present show an upward trend.

The ball is in your court. Review the RECORDED temperatures and tell me that temperatures are not rising.

Your claim that ice melt is only in Antarctica proves yet again that you have not read the data. If you are not willing to read the scientific reports, your 'opinion' is suspect and your sarcasm is not appreciated.

Maybe the ice he's talking about is in Las Vegas. Its snowing! And it's freaking cold here in San Diego. Brrr .... (I'm just bitter because I hate rain and cold)

Celt, do you have figures for the net loss in ice melt? I tried to google but am coming up short. I notice that Alaska is mentioned, but in this article they just experienced for the first time in their recorded history, an ice expansion (for 200 years or so ice has melted).
Bad weather was good for Alaska glaciers: Environment | adn.com

In Scandinavia, ice has also been growing.
Isbreene vokser igjen - Nyheter - NRK Nyheter
Can't read Scandinavian? Me neither. I read it on Dailytech :D

Recorded temperatures has been rising since 1880 (also cooling since for the past few years as well). But isn't there another way to look at it? If we had a little ice age that ended in 1850 or so, wouldn't that mean that when the temperatures came back to the mean, it would appear to be warming? Or has the temp shot through the mean completely. Looking for more sources (at work ...) since I'm now intrigued.

I'm all for conservation etc., but can't decide which side of the science fence I'm on. I'm more interested in wildlife and habitat conservation.

"jdang307 wrote:

Maybe the ice he's talking about is in Las Vegas. Its snowing! And it's freaking cold here in San Diego. Brrr .... (I'm just bitter because I hate rain and cold)

Celt, do you have figures for the net loss in ice melt? I tried to google but am coming up short. I notice that Alaska is mentioned, but in this article they just experienced for the first time in their recorded history, an ice expansion (for 200 years or so ice has melted).
Bad weather was good for Alaska glaciers: Environment | adn.com

In Scandinavia, ice has also been growing.
Isbreene vokser igjen - Nyheter - NRK Nyheter
Can't read Scandinavian? Me neither. I read it on Dailytech :D

Recorded temperatures has been rising since 1880 (also cooling since for the past few years as well). But isn't there another way to look at it? If we had a little ice age that ended in 1850 or so, wouldn't that mean that when the temperatures came back to the mean, it would appear to be warming? Or has the temp shot through the mean completely. Looking for more sources (at work ...) since I'm now intrigued.

I'm all for conservation etc., but can't decide which side of the science fence I'm on. I'm more interested in wildlife and habitat conservation.

There was an earlier where we had a discussion about glaciers -- ones that are growing and why and the majority that are melting due to increased temperatures. Here is one post in particular:

http://forums.thephins.com/science-technology/13521-climate-change-melting-arctic-clearly-linked-study.html#post269328

Here is the parent thread:

http://forums.thephins.com/science-technology/13521-climate-change-melting-arctic-clearly-linked-study.html

Our last ice age ended between 10-15 thousand years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_glaciation

I have little doubt that a decrease in sun spot activity and perhaps entering into a new glacial period can be responsible for the cooling trend we saw last year and perhaps this one as well but the point I am making is that the charted temperature rise and ice melt are related.

There is almost as much turmoil in the literature as there is in Greenland itself.

One study says that there is so much more ice build up above 1500m than what is melting below 1500m, that there is actually a net gain of 5.4cm of ice annually (about 2 inches). This would suggest that Greenland is sucking up more "Chesapeakes" out of the ocean than its losing, wouldn't it?.

Another study says there is so much loss of ice, the decending water is speeding up the ice sheet towards the ocean.

And yet another study counters the last by saying that it is just a "transient summertime event", and over the long term, there is no increase in the rate of movement.

You could get whiplash reading this stuff.

"Celtkin wrote:

I have little doubt that a decrease in sun spot activity and perhaps entering into a new glacial period can be responsible for the cooling trend we saw last year and perhaps this one as well but the point I am making is that the charted temperature rise and ice melt are related.

I'd say that's a given. :lol:

But there are exceptions.

Besides the ones that are growing, there are also glaciers that are retreating, but not actually melting. This is due to decreased precipitation, kinda like those ice cubes that shrunk cause they were left in the freezer too long.

The glacier on Mt Kilimanjaro is a prime example. It never sees temperatures above freezing, but high winds and lack of snowfall have been shrinking it since before Hemingway even wrote about it.

BTW - Where are these 20+ ft sea level rises in just a few decades coming from? Other than blogs, or Al Gore? The last time the oceans rose at that rate, was at the end of the last ice age when huge ice sheets covering a significant portion of the Earth were all melting.

The IPCC's intermediate assessment has the oceans rising about 8 inches in the next 100 years. Its most catastrophic assessment says 23 inches in 100 years.

The oceans had been rising 3mm per year. Since 2005, that rate is down 30% to 2mm. New trend? Or just a speed bump? The debate should be fun.

"jason8er wrote:

I'd say that's a given. :lol:

But there are exceptions.

Besides the ones that are growing, there are also glaciers that are retreating, but not actually melting. This is due to decreased precipitation, kinda like those ice cubes that shrunk cause they were left in the freezer too long.

The glacier on Mt Kilimanjaro is a prime example. It never sees temperatures above freezing, but high winds and lack of snowfall have been shrinking it since before Hemingway even wrote about it.

Brother, what percentage of glaciers are growing? By most accounts, the number is vanishingly small.