Kudos to Carroll but Marshall is the better player IMO. I'm anxiously awaiting the day when he turns his head around to find the ball.

 

Misaligned defensive back is Marshall, in my opine.

 

What do u mean by misaligned?

 

Should be a safety.

 

If he really pans out we can throw Marshall back to safety.

I can dream..

 

I could be wrong but no. IMO Marshall isn't a pro bowler or great at anything but he's solid across the board. Carroll scares me a little with the way he plays, but he's done better than I thought he would. Either way the vontae trade is lookin better and better.

 

Santonio Holmes beat Marshall up like a child. Mark Sanchez dominated him. I don't think he's at all "solid." CB is very much a need. And I still don't agree with VD trade. I truly think we'd be better off with him than the 2nd round pick we got in return. Now we just have a hole that needs to be filled all over again.

 

With a better player; which is whats not mentioned enough.

 

Because both are such better players? :huh:

 

By "better" do you mean more consistent, less headache, and harder working? :shifty:

 

That's true if one believes either Marshall or Carroll is better than Davis.

 

Well, it certainly couldn't mean more talented and gifted.

 

Too bad VD never worked as hard as Marshall or made an effort to become half the leader he is. He'd still be on the team.

 

Consistency.

Or draft pick.

 

or frustration inducing squandered talent.

 

Sorry you are frustrated.

 

you word-twister, you. :p

 

That is debatable, I would say.

 

I'd rather have a second round pick than one of the worst corners in the league from a statistical standpoint. I don't care about his "talent" . The fact is Vontae has never been a consistent player worthy of his draft status.

 

I've been very pleased with his improvements this season. Definite big props to Coyle, huh?

Marshall worries me a bit. He makes some decent plays, but he also get a lot of penalties and near penalties.

 

NC has -0- ball skills, he is stiff, but not a terrible player just one not likely to create turnovers.

 

Marshall isnt even a viable starter. Statistically hes one of the worst corners in the league over the last year and 6 games. Hes so bad that hes now been replaced by players on two different teams (Arizona last year and Miami now) and was so bad Zona moved him to FS last year where he performed as one of the best free safeties in the league. There is zero evidence that the guy should even be playing CB let alone starting. There is a half season sample from last year though that says he should be a safety and could be a very nice asset there. Would you rather have the guy playing terribly at CB and give Carroll a chance or would you rather move Clemons to a swing safety type role and let Marshall be a playmaker at FS? Carroll is playing much better then Marshall. There is little debate there based on statistical evidence.

 

To be fair though the colts have one of the worst pass rushes in the league and are learning a new defense. That makes a DB's job much harder as having to cover for an extra second or two could mean all the difference in the world in a wr getting open. Additionally, consistently poor pressure would also allow for more downfield opportunity as longer developing routes now become an option where as here we have a great DL and a very good pass rush making a DB's job easier in coverage. If a QB knows they are going to get hit they will get rid of that ball sooner and that just does not happen when teams play the colts....qb's are as comfortable as one can be vs them.

 

Suspect VD has to be a happy camper before he can play well, he strikes me as the Vernon Davis mirror image, just everything is opposite, he doesn't want the stage but he does want to feel needed.

 

Carroll certianly has the physicaly traits to be a good corner in the league. Looks as though he's done well in his opportunity. Can't say that i'm thrilled about Marshall or Carroll opposite Smith but we atleast need them to make some plays on that side.

 

I disagree with ur whole premise WADR. I think he's an above avg CB with the ability to play FS if the need arises. I'm not sure why he's getting such a bad rap after just 4 games. Leftover angst from losing Vontae maybe. IMO he's undeniably better than Carrol, and if I'm wrong then he won't get his starters role back once he's healthy. Time will tell.

 

That's really not true even in the slightest bit. He is a viable starter, he's not close to one of the worst starting cornerbacks in the league over the last 6 games, he's not been replaced in Miami, he's hurt, and there's plenty of debate based on statistical evidence- PFF has him ranked 24th out of 72 "starting" corners in coverage skills, and the only stat they track that he's worse than average at is yards per reception.

There's a pretty legitimate argument that he's a better safety than corner but suggesting he is terrible as a corner is pretty asinine, and your reaction is so far from what is supported by fact that I've really got to question you don't have some sort of ulterior motive or angle.

Edit- That's not to mention there is a fair amount to judge Nolan Carroll on, and he's tangibly not very different in terms of quality.

 

If I remember correctly a broken leg was mainly responsible for Carroll being drafted in the 5th round instead of 2-3 rounds earlier, so there was always some raw skills there.

 

I don't know I just don't trust Nolan at all, it always seems like he is giving up first downs and then tackling after the fact. Never makes any plays on the ball.

 

I think Nolan has developed into a solid corner. He does a good job in man coverage, he rarely gets beaten badly, he's usually there to contend the pass and he's pretty dang good at jumping routes. The only thing I dont like about him is his ball skills. He'll jump a route but fail to turn it into an int. On deep balls he rarely turns his head to play the ball. I like him better than Marshall at CB. Marshall has the same problems on deep balls, only Marshall fails to turn his head and he often muggs the WR for a penalty. If Marshall can play Safety as well as some have suggested he did last season in Arizona, I think it makes a lot of sense to put Marshall in Clemons place. I doubt if the Dolphins do it, but it'd probably be our best secondary we could put out there.

 

Actually its 100% true. Right now PFF has him ranked 70th out of the 100 CB's that have played at least 25% of their teams snaps. Most of the guys ranked below him are nickel/dime backs, young players who are learning, or just suck. Opposing Qbs are 14comp/23attempts/207 yards/14.8YPA/2TD/101 rating vs him. Granted our secondary, especially at CB, is not the strongest but teams definitely have no issue throwing on him. And those rankings are through the 4 games hes actually played. He has terrible run metrics as well. And thats an improvement over last year when he was so bad the first 7 weeks that he was moved to FS week 8. Thats the only thing that makes his ranking appear better then the 49th it is because he was pacing to be a bottom 10 guy in the entire league at CB through the first 7 weeks. To say he sucks as a corner is putting it nicely...

Maybe you can see it if you subscribe but heres the game by game from last year: https://www.profootballfocus.com/da...lastname=Marshall&surn=Marshall&playerid=3003

You can question my motive all you want, I actually was happy we signed him because I thought he was playing safety. When I found out he was playing CB and we traded VD thats when I knew that he would be a problem. And it is whether you like it or not. We need another CB next year because that dude despite having the ability is the answer to nothing as a CB.

 

Put it in some form of context.

His ranking is not negative because of coverage, it's negative because of penalties and run grade. I listed his coverage grade, it's pretty good.

His rushing grade is pretty much entirely academic- It all came in a single game where the opponent gained 3.3 yards a carry, and if you can single out an example of where the grade came from, I'd be very impressed.

The penalties are problematic, but again, it's one game, and he got ****ed over pretty badly on one of them in the Jets game.

Ah, there we go. Marshall's actual performance seems pretty much irrelevant at this point, it's the Vontae Davis Lost Cause Club.

Which is amazing, because Richard Marshall isn't really any drop-off in terms of actual on the field performance than what Davis offered last year.

 

And he still hasn't been, "replaced."

 

So you'd let Carroll take the number 2 spot and bump CC down to 2nd string for Marshall? Would he be a good SS? Jones is doing pretty well right now.

 

No but his passer rating against sucks. He doesnt do anything to accentuate the run D like Vontae did. Hes just not a good corner and you have nothing to show that he is. All you can is try and defend your position that hes not awful by making excuse after excuse for him when all evidence is to the contrary. Hes lost jobs in Arizona and Carolina by guys like Greg Toler, Aj Jefferson and other scrubs/fringe players. Now hes may lose his job to Carroll in Miami and probably should. How is that all these teams can find reason to bench the guy and Miami will probably be next and yet you still think hes good? Do coaches not know what they are watching?

And actually while I like VD the Marshall signing happened before the VD trade. I was never opposed to signing Marshall until I found out they planned to use him as a CB and not a FS where he could be one of the best at the position.

He will be shortly. I should have said potentially replaced in Miami because I dont think he will get this job back.

 

Meh. I wouldn't drive a Ferrari over a Camry, if the Ferrai's brakes were as inconsistent as VD's talent showed up on the field.