If Justin Herbert balls out and Tua busts will Grier get fired?
Nothing else really to talk about until camp.
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Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
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Now, if he completely bombs and we win 3 games next year, then maybe we look for a QB and a GM much sooner. But I think it would have to be an incredibly bad season for that to happen and Flores would be out the door as well (since that means the defense regresses, etc.).
The questionable part comes in if we win 6-8 total games...then what? Follow the plan or start over from scratch? It's an incredibly hard call at that point and I could make arguments either way. So I think the goal for this season is 9+ wins and everyone stays regardless.
One more thing- Herbert doesn't play into this scenario at all. I don't care how good/bad he plays because we can't control that timeline. You can't punish a GM for liking one player over another and play the "what if" game of who we should have taken instead. It doesn't matter who made that final decision or what percentage falls on Grier...it was a team decision that we have to live with.DolphinGreg, VManis and Puka-head like this. -
The Gm main job is to fine the franchise QB!Without the QB he is a failure in today's NFL.
Let's just hope Tua thrives!KeyFin likes this. -
Tu@ alr3ady !s a bUSt!
HerB3rt i$ thE BeSt qB 3v3r! -
The point is, I just don't see this as a Herbert vs Tua conversation. Maybe journalists and some fans will complain about that for decades, but even if Tua turns out to be a complete stud and blows Herbert out of the water, folks will instead complain about us not drafting TJ Watt or Travis Etienne. That's just how it goes when people want to focus on the negatives...there's always something to complain about.
Personally, I think Tua will have a solid season this year. Maybe he's not top-10 or where some would like to categorize him, but we've added too much talent and he's worked too hard not to show some improvement. Adding Fuller and Waddle completely transforms this offense as well, so I think we'll see guys open all over the place and our boy will find his rhythm quickly.DolphinGreg likes this. -
By the way Tua is 1-0 against Herbert.
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I felt the entire several years prior to the draft that Herbert was better than Tua. I wanted us to draft him, and I think he has the much higher ceiling between the two players.
However, that one choice shouldn't break Geier if he's done well in most other areas, which I think that he has. If the Dolphins are a really solid team top to bottom going into the 2022 season with the exception of having a starting QB whos about the 20th best in the league (which I see as the most likely scenario), then we can look to see if we can improve from Tua in the 2023 draft.DolphinGreg, resnor and KeyFin like this. -
Is 2 years enough time to truly tell for a QB? Mayfield had a good rookie season and then followed it up with a dud in his 2nd year. Allen started out bad his rookie year, and then made some progress his second year. It wasn't really until year 3 that both had shown enough to say they were the long term future of their respective franchises.
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The point is, you need to really use the eyeball test and look deeper to see how everyone is doing. Tua's stats might look bad on the surface this coming year when he actually did well in a lot of games. Who knows.DolphinGreg and KeyFin like this. -
I know every fan base has its share of crybabies and Chicken Littles. Every decision is quadruply guessed and every glimmer of hope is written off as a temporary glitch in the matrix. Our fan base is certainly no exception.
Finatik likes this. -
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I think Tua was the right choice considering how we viewed Herbert at the time of the Draft. I did NOT want to wait another 6-7 years so Ryan Tannehill 2.0 could come in and have us argue over whether he was good enough or not.
I saw Tua as a more developed QB. Game-to-game it seemed to me Tua was doing more to lead his team which featured what was maybe the best passing offense in college football. I thought he had NFL size/strength so I was for drafting him over Herbert.
To my eyes, Tua brought more spark/potential and there were too many uncertainties about Herbert when it came to consistency, competition and how much of a leader he'd be in an NFL locker room. By comparison Tua played QB for the most NFL-esque team in college football. He performed as consistently as one could imagine and played great against top-tier opponents.
When you ask who the "safe" pick was, it was probably Tua. He was the one who you felt you could judge. Herbert was the one with boom/bust potential.
You could cut up highlights from a single Tua game and it'd look amazing. To make Herbert look like that, you'd have to cut up highlights from the entire season (or maybe his entire career). Again, Tua was the one people trusted. He was the same guy week-in, week-out.
The only thing that made it close was Tua's injury history. It all came down to the medical evaluation which you have to put in the hands of the doctors/team. A healthy Tua was the consensus pick over a healthy Herbert. Tua's floor was certainly viewed as higher than Herbert.
It really came down to whether Tua would be healthy and whether the team that drafted him would assemble the right kinds of pieces around him such that they'd achieve the same success as Bama.
The question was always about how high Tua would ascend, but no one questioned the work ethic he had. That made most people sympathetic to Tua. You can combine that with the fact that the Ducks were so inconsistent against lesser competition and you see why (most) folks favored Tua.
So looking forward, if Tua were to bust and Herbert were to thrive I can still look back and say I made the right decision at the time which is the only thing that's fair to evaluate.Last edited: Jul 9, 2021 -
Without the right team/coaching, we never saw the best of RT17. But he also never looked like Aaron Rodgers which meant the team around him sometimes had to carry him. That puts pressure on the coaches, players and team-builders. Ultimately, we end up over-hyping certain guys who are good but not necessarily great (e.g. Jarvis Landry, Reshad Jones, etc.). At the same time, we're too hard on other guys (e.g. DVP).
At the end of the day it's a team game and it's hard to put it all together. The Dolphins are closer to doing that than they've probably ever been in my time as a fan. The GM, HC, QB and DEF all look solid. That's really never been the case here before (since I started watching in the mid-00s). We were always complaining about some piece in the puzzle and how the rest wasn't good enough to compensate.
I for one am very excited to see how this next season goes. I think it'll be tough because of the competition but I also think the team has a real chance to pull out some surprising victories and maybe even make it into the Play-offs with some momentum.OwesOwn614 likes this. -
pumpdogs likes this.
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At the same time though, we can't say "we won 10 last year and added x, y, and z, so this season should be 11+ wins easy." We all know that's not realistic in the salary cap era....10 wins is never a given. But that goes back to my earlier point of keeping the same front office and the same core players- the less that changes, the better chance you have of repeating the same success. Players get more familiar with the system and the people, etc....that's a very big deal and we haven't had it in decades.
For that reason alone, I think Flores/Grier are virtual locks for the next few years unless we just have a complete team collapse.DolphinGreg likes this. -
But I'm also saying that writing off a QB who came off of a debilitating injury during a year without regular offseason activities and installations is ridiculous. I can't say that Tua will be a stud. But he was a stud in college and he flashed last season in tough circumstances. Suggesting that we missed out on Herbert for a "bust" is childish because the "bust" hasn't manifested.
Last season was a good season but it wasn't successful. This year holds promise. Looking at other teams and wishing we did something that made them better is engaging in hindsight. I'll wait for Tua to fail before I call him a failure.
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We've literally heard this stuff from his first NFL snap...why is that noise any different today?OwesOwn614 likes this.