Offensive Line - How can it be Upgraded/Fixed?

"Galant wrote:

We're only a week and a half into FA and the draft is still to come but arguably the biggest need Miami has had the past two years is fixing the OL. Get all the WR's you want, bring in the best TE's, fork out for RB's, none of it is going to make much different is T17 is on his rear-end all day and so far the OL question has not been answered.

We might hope that it will be answered prior to 2015-2016 but the question might now become, what possible answers are out there?

There was talk of dealings with Evan Mathis but that was then denied and recently Dan Connelly has shown up on the radar of possible interests.

Right now we're looking at needing two starting guards and then backups, since we've no depth. Can that get done in FA and the draft?

If not then someone wasn't thinking straight.

I think we'll bring in a veteran guard in free agency and another in the later rounds of the draft. Looks like they are sold on Jason Fox as a backup tackle, but I think we'll need another lineman capable of playing tackle in case Albert isn't 100% in the beginning of the season. I think we'll address WR, CB, and OL with the first 3 picks of our draft, just not necessarily in that order.

So that's one veteran guard in FA and one late round guard - both hopefully starters?

At this point I think I'd like to see two veteran guards (Maybe Connolly and Sims?) or one veteran and one 1st round maybe second round guard capable of starting. This issue is crucial and needs a real solution or else it risks hamstringing everything else being done on offense.

agree with you we can add all the WR's, RB's, and TE's we want but until we fix the OL it will be for not.

Wouldn't put the Evan Mathis thing to bed just yet especially with us holding Two 5th rounders which would probably get that deal done.

We are looking for one starting OG. Turner by all reports is going to get a starting nod and I think with a season of tutledge under his belt he could be very good. Still, we have a big need at the other OG with only Dallas Thomas slotted in there...gross.

Depth always a problem, but Jason Fox is an excellent swing OT and is fine to start the year if needed with Albert rehabbing. D. Thomas I am fine with providing OG depth since he is better than than OT and he is still on friendly contract.

With the Clay situation finally playing out that is $7.1 mil we would get back on the books. My opinion is move on... We signed Cameron for a reason, and Sims is more than capable as a #2 TE and may have more upside than we imagine.

With that $7.1 million, plus our other cap I'd take a run at Wiseniewski. Why? Well, he is 25 has 61 starts under his belt and most people believe he'd be better suited for OG anyway. He'd also provide backup OC if something were to happen to Pouncey.

Hearing the Dan Connolly rumors reminds me of the Colledge type signing that didn't work. Not a terrible idea but not long term solution. There are talented guards in the draft but can they be be relied upon to start.

If we don't match on Clay, take that savings and sign Wisniewski and put him at guard.

Our line will be set until we need Alebrt's replacement. After which we should be fine for a long time.

"Galant wrote:

So that's one veteran guard in FA and one late round guard - both hopefully starters?

At this point I think I'd like to see two veteran guards or one veteran and one 1st round maybe second round guard capable of starting. This issue is crucial and needs a real solution or else it risks hamstringing everything else being done on offense.

Seems Billy Turner is pretty much penciled in as a starter by staff, and I think the veteran gets the second spot. The rookie will likely be redshirted, like Turner was, and only start in case of injuries, etc. I don't think they've given up on Dallas Thomas yet, but he won't get a starting spot, IMO, he'll probably be a backup. We'll still need some depth though... there will be more guys cut during the offseason, we'll see what happens, but hopefully they aren't understimating the importance of solidifying the OL.

Surprised everyone is happy with Turner right now. We saw next to nothing from him.

Fin D - you're saying that by replacing one guard our OL is set? Was that sarcasm?
As for Albert's replacement, I hate to think it, but that replacement might be needed sooner than we might like.

Wish I had your confidence but when your whole line collapses at the loss of one tackle then that suggests to me a bigger issue than one guard.

"Galant wrote:

Surprised everyone is happy with Turner right now. We saw next to nothing from him.

Fin D - you're saying that by replacing one guard our OL is set? Was that sarcasm?
As for Albert's replacement, I hate to think it, but that replacement might be needed sooner than we might like.

Wish I had your confidence but when your whole line collapses at the loss of one tackle then that suggests to me a bigger issue than one guard.

IIRC, he played pretty well in a couple of preseason games, especially run blocking, then got injured and sat out pretty much the whole year. There were a lot of people who were high on him even before we drafted... I think CK was one of them.

"Galant wrote:

Surprised everyone is happy with Turner right now. We saw next to nothing from him.

Fin D - you're saying that by replacing one guard our OL is set? Was that sarcasm?
As for Albert's replacement, I hate to think it, but that replacement might be needed sooner than we might like.

Wish I had your confidence but when your whole line collapses at the loss of one tackle then that suggests to me a bigger issue than one guard.

No it wasn't sarcasm. We are set at C, RT, LT, and whichever side they put Turner on. That leaves the other guard spot.

I hope Turner proves to be the real deal but I'm not ready to call anything 'set' until it has been proven. Even then, depth. Last year things seemed to be looking up until Albert went down. Then it was back to business as usual - as in open, all hours, with a special on quarterbacks.

I'm not happy with the guard situation nor the depth at any position. We're talking about the OL here. This isn't an after thought, it's the backbone of the entire offense. It just takes one thing to fail and so much more comes crashing down. So I'd like to see solid starters and decent backups.

"Galant wrote:

I hope Turner proves to be the real deal but I'm not ready to call anything 'set' until it has been proven. Even then, depth. Last year things seemed to be looking up until Albert went down. Then it was back to business as usual - as in open, all hours, with a special on quarterbacks.

I'm not happy with the guard situation nor the depth at any position. We're talking about the OL here. This isn't an after thought, it's the backbone of the entire offense. It just takes one thing to fail and so much more comes crashing down. So I'd like to see solid starters and decent backups.

Everything was going well before Albert got hurt.

So great LT, good enough RT, C who can long snap but not much else, terrible guard in College, not good guard in Thomas = adequate offensive line.

Meaning you don't need all 5 positions to be good to have an effective offensive line.

"Galant wrote:

I hope Turner proves to be the real deal but I'm not ready to call anything 'set' until it has been proven. Even then, depth. Last year things seemed to be looking up until Albert went down. Then it was back to business as usual - as in open, all hours, with a special on quarterbacks.

I'm not happy with the guard situation nor the depth at any position. We're talking about the OL here. This isn't an after thought, it's the backbone of the entire offense. It just takes one thing to fail and so much more comes crashing down. So I'd like to see solid starters and decent backups.

Yes, we need depth, but Turner is a sure thing.

Jesus...we have three (count 'em three!) first round picks on our O-line already. While I gave it some thought towards the end of the season, I seriously doubt that the team is going to go chasing an interior lineman with one of its highest picks.

If you can't build a decent line without looking to the top-50 picks in the draft, you suck as a coach. I expect that we'll see someone drafted in rounds 3-5 and that the team will seriously entertain bringing in a veteran for competition.

But no, if you're thinking, 'why didn't the Dolphins make a big splash?,' it's because they've done that for the last few years with Pouncey, Albert, and James. No, we were never going to bring in Franklin or Iupati. I'm sorry, but good teams don't pay top money to stock their offensive line with premium talent across the board.

This is a very deep draft for og and pass rushers. I think we have to draft a guard no later than the 2nd rd and I would still pursue one in fa

"Galant wrote:

I hope Turner proves to be the real deal but I'm not ready to call anything 'set' until it has been proven. Even then, depth. Last year things seemed to be looking up until Albert went down. Then it was back to business as usual - as in open, all hours, with a special on quarterbacks.

I'm not happy with the guard situation nor the depth at any position. We're talking about the OL here. This isn't an after thought, it's the backbone of the entire offense. It just takes one thing to fail and so much more comes crashing down. So I'd like to see solid starters and decent backups.

Galant, Did you get a chance to watch Turner the last game? He was pretty impressive, he is a mauler who has good athleticism. Agree, he isn't set until proven but every report has him getting a chance to start and he was a 3rd round pick who we traded up for.

Depth has been a problem, but I can tell you that a huge problem was the staff's reluctance to play Jason Fox and leave Dallas Thomas as a whipping boy on the Right Side Island. What they should've done is play Fox right away he is a pretty decent option. Fox was better at LT than James was so leave it at that.

I am fine with the depth at OT with Albert, James, Fox.

OC = Pouncey with Brenner behind him.

OG = agree not ideal.

We have a Pro Bowl LT, Pro Bowl OC, Ascending RT, what could be a hidden gem at OG in Turner.

I find it quite interesting that so many people are sold on Turner as the answer at one of the guard positions. He really showed nothing last year and until he actually shows up and make plays during the regular season, he is still a big red flag as far as I am concerned.

At left tackle, we have no idea how Albert will play after suffering the most serious injury of his injury riddled career. Hopefully James will be able to return to RT and play to the level he did prior to moving to LT after Alberts injury last year. His play went down considerably after moving to LT.

Pouncey was below average after being moved to guard last year. With his return to center and an off season to get fully healthy, perhaps he can return to the player he was in 2013.

Right now there really is no answer for the other guard position on the roster and that needs to be addressed in free agency or in the first two rounds of the draft.

I still see the OL as a major concern for this team and if Albert can't return to the player he was before the injury and Turner doesn't live up to expectations, Tannehill is going to be in for another year of sacks and hits in the pocket.

While Tannehill has shown his toughness over the past three years. You just have to wonder how many more big hits he can take before he gets a serious injury.

If they have decided Tannehill is the player they want to build this offense around. It is imperative they put a better offensive line in front of him. What they have at this time just isn't good enough, IMO.

"jw3102 wrote:

I find it quite interesting that so many people are sold on Turner as the answer at one of the guard positions. He really showed nothing last year and until he actually shows up and make plays during the regular season, he is still a big red flag as far as I am concerned.

At left tackle, we have no idea how Albert will play after suffering the most serious injury of his injury riddled career. Hopefully James will be able to return to RT and play to the level he did prior to moving to LT after Alberts injury last year. His play went down considerably after moving to LT.

Pouncey was below average after being moved to guard last year. With his return to center and an off season to get fully healthy, perhaps he can return to the player he was in 2013.

Right now there really is no answer for the other guard position on the roster and that needs to be addressed in free agency or in the first two rounds of the draft.

I still see the OL as a major concern for this team and if Albert can't return to the player he was before the injury and Turner doesn't live up to expectations, Tannehill is going to be in for another year of sacks and hits in the pocket.

While Tannehill has shown his toughness over the past three years. You just have to wonder how many more big hits he can take before he gets a serious injury.

If they have decided Tannehill is the player they want to build this offense around. It is imperative they put a better offensive line in front of him. What they have at this time just isn't good enough, IMO.

I legitimately don't understand how you think Turner is a huge red flag but a rookie would solve things.

When Turner played he played very well...on a pro field during a pro game versus pro players. No rookie can say that., which means right there Turner has to be viewed higher than even the top guard in the draft.

I agree with those saying that we have 4/5 of the starters on the roster. The smartest course would be to bring in a vet to man the remaining G position and draft another OL late. Nobody would argue that we don't need a good OL. I just don't believe it's a problem you solve by throwing early round picks at it. Great NFL OLs are built on players who mesh together and are developed together as much or more than by just players with raw talent. Other positions like QB, WR, DL, etc. are far more dependent on raw talent. Those positions are the ones you should target with early picks. For the OL, the wiser course is to bring in a vet to plug the short term problem (rather than rely on a rookie to start day one) and then draft later round OL you can develop.

We could bring back Satele on the cheap for depth. Never know when Pouncey might get dinged up again.

You could solve a whole lot of problems by putting the best players on the field in their correct positions. Then again, Philbin.

I think part of the problem will be fixed with a healthy Brendan Albert and/or the development of Billy Turner. The moves we made, or lack thereof, leads me to believe they are confident with his progress. I would assume we add a G/T in the draft, probably 2-5th round.

I'd like to see a veteran added for depth and competition.

I'd like to see a vet starter and vet starter/backup, and a lower round draft pick brought in. Preferably at least 1 with C experience for depth reasons.

"Fin D wrote:

I legitimately don't understand how you think Turner is a huge red flag but a rookie would solve things.

When Turner played he played very well...on a pro field during a pro game versus pro players. No rookie can say that., which means right there Turner has to be viewed higher than even the top guard in the draft.

I consider any player who hasn't been a regular starter a red flag until he actually gets on the field and shows he can get the job done on a weekly basis.

I remember a couple of other young offensive linemen drafted in the first three rounds in the past six years ,who many on here were high on and they turned out to be below average players once they got into the starting lineup.

I'm not stating that Turner can't step up and be a quality starting guard. I just think assuming he will be the answer at one of the starting guard positions has to be a question mark until we see how he performs once he becomes the starter.

Turner and James are both second year players, but I have already seen James perform at a high level over several games when he played RT. Turner stills needs to prove it on the field over several games, then I will be a believer.

Obviously you have already accepted that Turner will step in and be an instant success. I hope you are right.

I just think that with Albert coming off a serious knee injury and Pouncey playing subpar as a guard this past season, it can't be assumed the OL isn't going to remain a huge problem for this team in 2015.

I would love to see them add a veteran guard in free agency who can come in and start this year and also draft another offensive lineman with their first or second round selection in the draft.

The Cowboys last year showed how a team can turn around when they have a top tier offensive line. Right now the Dolphins have an offensive line which is closer to the bottom of the league than it is near the top of the league.

You have to consistently win the line of scrimmage to be a consistent winner in the NFL. So to me, building a top tier offensive line is imperative if the Dolphins ever expect to be anything but mediocre.

Jake Fisher with our second round pick would be ideal. A legitimate starter at LT if Albert isn't ready or goes down again, and if Albert gets healthy and stays healthy we have a guy that will probably be excellent in pass blocking but take a year to develop as a run blocker .
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jake-fisher?id=2552360

Greg Mancz in the 6th is a guy who can play any position on the line. A younger more talented version of Nate Garner.

OG Miles Diffenbach may go undrafted because of injuries and durability issues. He would be an absolute steal if he could healthy and stay healthy. If he had remained healthy and had the kind of senior year that was expected he may have been in the second round conversation. I would like to see the Dolphins somehow pickup a 7th rounder and draft the guy.

Have a hunch about Jack Rummels as well:http://strengthperformance.com/video/strongman-sunday-stones

LT...Brandon Albert,Jake Fisher,Jason Fox
LG...Jake Fisher,Miles Diffenbach,Sam Brenner
Center...Pouncey,Mancz,Brenner
RG........Turner,Mancz,Rummels
RT...James,Fox,Mancz,Rummels

Rummells and Brenner on the PS.

"Phoenician Fan wrote:

Jake Fisher with our second round pick would be ideal. A legitimate starter at LT if Albert isn't ready or goes down again, and if Albert gets healthy and stays healthy we have a guy that will probably be excellent in pass blocking but take a year to develop as a run blocker .
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jake-fisher?id=2552360

Greg Mancz in the 6th is a guy who can play any position on the line. A younger more talented version of Nate Garner.

OG Miles Diffenbach may go undrafted because of injuries and durability issues. He would be an absolute steal if he could healthy and stay healthy. If he had remained healthy and had the kind of senior year that was expected he may have been in the second round conversation. I would like to see the Dolphins somehow pickup a 7th rounder and draft the guy.

Have a hunch about Jack Rummels as well:http://strengthperformance.com/video/strongman-sunday-stones

LT...Brandon Albert,Jake Fisher,Jason Fox
LG...Jake Fisher,Miles Diffenbach,Sam Brenner
Center...Pouncey,Mancz,Brenner
RG........Turner,Mancz,Rummels
RT...James,Fox,Mancz,Rummels

Rummells and Brenner on the PS.

Chances of a 2nd round LT being a legitimate starter is very small. It would be awesome if he wasn't terrible at it.