Wow.....out of the blue on this news!

Sad for Baseball as will be the case with each and every outing of who cheated the game!

 

Can't say I'm shocked or surprised. Disappointed yes but it would be naive of me or anyone else to not have some doubt about it.

Can we please just release the whole entire list now instead of naming players one at a time now? It really is becoming a witch hunt starting with Bonds and up to Arod, Sosa, Manny, Ortiz etc. The public really doesn't care about the players who were on PEDs anymore. So just release the list and get it over with.

 

Wow, you mean the best players in a steroid-riddled sport are steroid users?

 

I liked the hopefully, freudian slip in the thread title...

And who cares about steroids? The only thing I am mad about is that this will undoubtedly cause every other story to be bounced to the fringe for a couple of days.

 

I bet theres a couple Angels from our 2002 world series team on that list. Glaus for sure probably and then I've heard Spiezio. Brad Fulmer used to be huge so he might have been juicing too.:lol:

 

I think we would all be surprised by who used, I bet at one time it was way over 50% of the players.

 

This hurts Ortiz, especially because before 2003 his numbers weren't really eye-popping, and now he looks like an average hitter at best. Not surprising though. I agree though, release the list and get it over with.

 

I was actually with a former MLB player having lunch with him when the Arod news broke in Feb and I asked him how many guys did he think used PEDs at the time he was playing, which was in the mid to late 90s to the mid 2000s, and he told me 85% of them but he wouldn't have been shocked if it was higher than that.

 

Not a good week for the red sox. I'm trying to understand how the mitchell report was void of any red sox players.

 

Name dropper :shifty:

 

did i ever tell you about the time i was eating lunch with jesus and buddha?

 

Am I the only one who finds the title hilariously clever? Ortitz?

 

Good question. If anyone read the report (not sure if you did and I'm not assuming either way) it's clear Mitchell got his information from 3 sources:

1. BALCO
2. Rodemski
3. McNamee

Mitchell didn't have access to the 2003 failed players test. If he did than Alex Rodriguez's name clearly would have been mentioned in the report. As would those 103 or 104 names as well.

Also the Mitchell Report did include Red Sox players in it. And let's be honest besides Roger Clemens there were zero big/interesting names on that list. For all the hype it got before the release it turned out to be a dud.

 

Haha seriously I know. I personally hate it when people name drop but I felt like that was the only way for me to make that post.

By the way the funniest name drop I ever heard was from my friend who went to Syracus and called me up one day and said 'Hey so Robocop is my teacher for film class'.

 

I read throught it. Im wondering if the names of the players that failed in 2003 would be closely related to the names in the mitchell report. To be honest, i couldnt care less anymore. PEDs, Steroids they are rampant in professional sports and i would say more people used them than people who havent. I worked in minor league baseball, and the saying was "if you aint cheatin, you aint tryin"

 

No, it was good. Even better than A-Roid or Eric Gbackacne... ok so the last one is a stretch.

 

Yeah you make good points. And I agree with you completely.

 

Too long for Gagne. I suggest shortening to Backne. Please review, revise and re-submit...thank you

 

lets find all the quotes where david ortiz said he didnt do steroids and call him a liar just like we did a-rod!

 

Absolutely. He's been on record being very anti-PEDs. He claims that he will hold a press conference once he finds out more information from the Player's Association so it will be interesting to see what he says.

 

i think i remember him saying players should get a 1 year ban if they are caught...around the time a-rod was caught i think he said that.

 

Yeah he did. I mean I love Ortiz, obviously, but its hard to take when people say things like that and it turns out they've been cheating all along. Bad job by David. But hopefully he says the right things and all will be forgiven and forgotten in a week because the fans don't actually care only the writers because they think its a juicy story still.

 

Maybe he should try them, it might help. :lol:

 

if they came out with a list with guys who "didnt" test positive.....it would be more breaking news.......this is ridiculous.....but not surprising

 

ESPN is thrilled; the all-Favre, all-the-time circus has ended, and so now they can run steroid stories non-stop for the next few weeks.

I continue to wonder: why does anyone give a damn who was using steroids prior to 2005? They weren't illegal in MLB until the 2005 season; Ortiz and Ramirez could have shot themselves in the *** with HGH or winstrol or bovine growth hormone or whatever in the middle of Fenway Park in front of 38,000 people and MLB couldn't have done a thing about it. Why are we applying the judicial standards of third world dictators here? "It's illegal now, therefore we're going to punish anyone who's ever done it." The fact that Ortiz and Ramirez are being pilloried for this, 6 years after the fact, for something that wouldn't be made illegal for 2 more years, is obscene.

But hey, it got Jose Canseco back in the spotlight, and it allowed ESPN to fill some airtime.

 

Phunwin, I think it has more to do with the hypocrisy of the guys who've done it. A-Rod, Manny, Ortiz, Palmeiro, Bonds, Clemens - all denied allegations of steroid use. Most of them acted as though they were insulted to even be questioned about it.There's a smug "How dare you question my ability" tone some of these guys take.

And just because it wasn't illegal, doesn't mean we should let these guys off the hook IMO. I realize everyone did it, but unfortunately the best ones are going to come under the most heat.

What pisses me off, is the fact that guys who were marginal players before taking steroids have overshadowed the guys who were clean.

And David Ortiz will not be punished, at least not by MLB.

 

I don't disagree that many of these guys handled it poorly; Palmeiro first among them. But that doesn't mean they should be barred from the Hall of Fame or subjected to a witch hunt. Mark McGwire's probably going to miss out on Cooperstown because of this ludicrous mentality of punishing people after the fact for things that aren't even illegal.

 

Regarding the HOF, I agree 100%. However, I think guys on the fence (Chipper Jones?) should get extra consideration if they weren't only any list... provided they finally just release the damn thing once and for all.

 

Agree with all of your posts and Phunwins 100%. It is a witch hunt right now. I have no problem putting Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Manny in the HOF. Just put a little blog on their statue that says they were caught/suspended/suspected of steriod use or whatever.

I was upset/disappointed about Ortiz for about 2 hours until he hit the game winning HR and the Sox won the game. All was forgiven. Honestly the media is the only ones that care about this issue anymore.

As for Chipper Jones being on the fence? No way the guy is a 1st ballot HOFer and this I will not argue about.

 

The best is Canseco is "alledging" that the HoF has just inducted a Steroid user (Rickey H.).....his former teammate.

So his question is...since the HoF has a known (to Canseco) PED user...why should it block all the other outed users.

M&M stated that the HoF voters will simply claim that at the time of the vote Run-Rickey-Run was not a known PED user....but they will continue to not cast a vote for known PED user.

interesting in that Canseco has not name Rickey...but alluded to his former teammate being voted in recently...hahahaha....and to date Cancesco has been the most accurate on who was juicing. He was the first to say atleast 80% during his playing days were juicing..then in latest book, he feels he underestimated and now feels its closer to 95%.

 

I think if Chipper is clean (if that could somehow be proven) he should be first ballot. Since there can and probably wont be proof, it may take him a couple tries.

However, when you compare him amongst the best switch-hitters of all-time, and consider his career OBP, OPS and SLG% (which I know you love so much :wink2:) in addition to not being linked to steroids, you could def make a case for 1st ballot.

EDIT: Think I misread your post... I think you meant he is a first ballot HOF'er. Sorry.

 

Yeah when I heard Canseco say that I thought of Eck or Rickey. But who knows nor cares?

Yeah I said he's a 1st ballot HOFer. He's been one of the best hittersin the past 15 years. He'll be a HOFer no doubt about it.

 

Maybe he meant Eck??? dont know....was immediately thinking Rickey....(Mainly combined with Rickey saying he focused on his body, and hitting homeruns when a GM told him steals wouldnt earn him the paycheck he was seeking...)

 

I was just thinking out loud. Thinking of guys Jose could have crossed paths with. The whole Oakland thing. Probably not though. I'd agree it would probably be Rickey over Eck.

 

I would be STUNNED if Larry isn't a first ballot Hall of Famer. Short of a surprise steroid revelation, or being found in a hotel room with an 8-ball and a dead hooker, I can't imagine Jones not making Cooperstown on the first ballot.

 

I thought Conseco said the person he was talking about wasnt Rickey? Not sure who it could be. Someone in the Hall who could have tested positive in 2003, but not Henderson? Think Jose is mixing his story up.

 

i dunno if its going to be that easy for him to get in. you look at Freddy McGriff who many think may not get into the hall. Freddy was a 5 time all-star and 3 time silver slugger winner, who hit 493 HRs won a championship. Chipper is a 6 time all-star and 2 time silver slugger winner, who currently is at 421 HRs.

Heres how their careers compare through 162 season






Depending on how long Chipper plays, his numbers should drop slightly naturally due to age, and he may not hit the 500 mark either. So you have 2 similar careers, one being a 1st ballot and one possibly not getting in? i just dont see it. Personally i believe both deserve it, neither on the 1st Ballot though.

 

.952 ops > .886 ops