I have been such a broken record on this...

 

Sherman? Who is that? Our OC is Dan Henning Jr.

No but being serious now, that is how we didn't use Reggie Bush the right way.

 

I wish they'd get Thigpen involved as well. Too bad we can't hire Mike Martz for just the rest of the season to call plays.

 

When the Phins hired Mike Sherman, I remember a fan or two telling us we (as Phin fans) would regret it. Well... they were right, and, here we are.

 

I remember Sherman as the Packers Head coach who failed to run the ball up the middle on fourth down in the playoffs against the Eagles I believe, which of course we all know who won the Superbowl that year >_>

 

I think a lot of people were rightfully skeptical, and I pinned my hope on the idea that Philbin would be able to manage the situation and correct his worst impulses. It really hasn't happened.

 

My first thought is that a lot of that may have to do with offensive line issues. What's Sherman and Philbin's history of using backs in the passing game? Now that I think about it, I don't recall it being all that prevalent, although I have nothing to support that at the moment.

 

This is a huge gaping issue, and the one hurt most from this is Ryan Tannehill.

You see all his contemporary young QBs, and the thing they all have in common is this type of scheming to get the QB easier, less risky throws to help them along in their development. Tannehill has been put in too many tough situations for a young QB.

 

It's part of it, but they could certainly make the situation better. Daniel Thomas is currently 2nd place per PFF in % of snaps pass blocking(45.6%) for example.

 

Yeah can they break this out on a per route basis? Are we throwing to them less often or are they running routes less often.

 

This prob dates back to Ricky, especially Ronnie and Reggie... I don't understand it. Its got to be a factor to our inept offense over the past decade.

 

Yep, makes sense., if the backs always have to stay in to keep Tannehill from dying, and Tannehill still has to get rid of the ball quickly even with the help.

 

You can do yards per route run:

Marcus Thigpen 5.00(11 routes run though)
Daniel Thomas 0.68
Lamar Miller 0.57
Tyler Clutts 0.00

They are producing very poorly proportionately to what they are asked to do.

 

Green Bay doesn't throw it to the backs much either. This is a system issue. There is a certain style that these two WANT to play, and it is quite different from what the team NEEDS to play right now. This is an issue of adaptation, because if we had the ability to run the offense the way they WANT to run it, most fans would be lauding them as geniuses. Fact is, most coaches are not that, because while coaches love to talk about adapting, most don't actually adapt.

I've already cited Green Bay taking Eddie Lacy because "he can stop people coming at him". In this system, the backs are pass protectors, not receivers.

 

I wonder how much of this is because....to throw to the backs...via HB screens...etc, you really have to have the an offensive line to do this with.

Call me crazy...but...more and more this is where I am having serious issues with Ireland.

To me, it seems like to run this offense, you have to have the correct offensive line. Without one, you cant. Which begs the question, if its so important, why the hell do we have a historically bad one? How as a GM can you let that happen?

Maybe they never intended on being able to really make a run this season. I think possibly they thought they could get by with the Line they had, get another year under Tannehills belt, put the skill players around him this season, and then next season finish the offense out by concentrating on the line. They had alot of eggs in the basket with Jonathan Martin this season...but, I dont think they had penciled him in longer.

In reality, the more and more that you look at this...this offense seems to have always been a three year project.

 

i brought this up yesterday...the playcalling and adjustments of this coaching staff is on par with a pee-wee league coaching staff. if you cant get the running game going, throw some check-swings passes...it's obvious. darren sproles has made a living of it. all those 3 wide receiver sets we run, our rb has to be getting one on one matchups with a linebacker. throw him the damn ball.

 

correct. throwing to a few swings will also help open up the short/intermediate middle passing game. the lb will have to start respecting the rb as route runner, which opens up holes in the middle of the defense. drag routes and 7-yard in routes by the te and slot receiver will be money routes.

 

I felt the exact same way, and now I'm sitting here wondering what the heck Philbin actually does. He made a lot of bold proclamations prior to this season and last that absolutely do not reflect the type of football team we are. So I'm left wondering, where are Philbin's fingerprints on this team?

It genuinely feels as if you could remove Philbin from the equation, let Sherman and Coyle just do their own thing separately, and we would be left with the exact some result.

 

I believe after Sproles slaughtered us in the Saints game, Thigpen went to the coaching staff and asked to be more involved in a similar type of open-space role, and they said no.

 

Yep, teams are squatting on short routes not because they don't think we can throw deep, but because they know our line will not give the quarterback time to throw deep.

 

YEA and I was the one that tried to warn people but that isn't important now what is important is to fire his sorry *** . how can our best players produce if we are using the Daniel Thomas es of those positions ?

 

i agree with this 1000%. i cannot tell you how much i have said this.

 

This I hadn't heard. Can you find the story, if you don't mind?

 

Again....I keep hearing what we should be doing.

But..how much of this isnt being done..because quite simply...we cant given the O Line?

I dont know if this is the case....but something seems to be stopping it. I cant believe its just plain stubborness

 

The last time we used a running back effectively was in the first portion of 2007 or 2008 with Ronnie Brown, before he got injured and missed the rest of the year. Since then this has been a glaring weakness, something that's crazy considering how effective Reggie Bush was in New Orleans, and how effective you would expect Lamar Miller to be.

 

I remember reading this comment after the game.

-Sent from my TMO Samsung Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

the poor oline is even more of a reason to throw to a quick swing route. the play takes about 2 secs to happen. it's a high percentage completion play. it gets your speedster rb out in space vs either a lb or a safety. it takes our shyty oline out of the equation.

 

I remember Ronnie was having a monster year and was thrilled we finally were throwing to our backs. Bush in this offense was a between the tackles and bounce it outside back. Not the back that we see in the highlights for the Lions on sunday

 

I think with how badly our line has been its a monkey wrench to Philbin's whole system.

First of all, the backs can't really be outlets because they are either blocking or stuck to the bottom of the pass rushers shoes. With the turnstiles we have up front, Wallace doesn't have enough time to hit his final gear, which is a big reason why he and RT haven't developed any chemistry. Because we don't have the speed guy as a reliable target, that effects the rest of WRs.

The Pats, can become any team that focuses on anything. Philbin, OTOH, has one system that can adapt to most situations. The problem is we do not have the pieces on the oline to properly run Philbin's system. (And Sherman shouldn't be calling plays).

Yes, the Pats have it better, but their ability to become any team, is unique to them. You can't spend time wishing for that, because its very rare. Philbin's system is good and it works, but you must have the pieces. We don't on the oline and that's our downfall. I've lost confidence in Philbin, because we lost to the Bucs, not because his system is bad.

 

just imagine lining up in shotgun trips right formation. the leaves the x receiver on the left side all by himself with a cb covering him and a safety playing over the top. lamar miller is lined up in the backfield to the left of the qb. the x receiver (hartline) runs a quick slant, which means his cb has to follow him. guess what....the left side of the field is completely uncovered now and if lamar makes a quick sprint swing route out there, he will have space to dance because a slow mlb cant keep up with him. new orleans does this probably 8 times a game.

 

exactly

 

You are obviously too simple to comprehend the offensive genius that is Philbin/Sherman.

 

I believe one of the beat writers tweeted a quote about it shortly after the game, but I'm not sure there was ever a full article. I don't remember who it was, but it stuck with me.

 

It's not like we don't watch New England throw it to their backs all the time. Even Pierre Thomas catches a few passes even with Sproles on the team. Matt Forte. Jamaal Charles.

 

Agree.

And would add, a good coach cares more about winning than adhering to his system.

 

Rishard Matthews's breakout game should offer a reminder that the offense was designed for quick-hitting, ball-moving pass routes. Keller was expected to lead the team in receptions while Gibson and Binns were stars of preseason/training camp. Losing the ability to consistently attack the middle of the defense hurts the offense tremendously as the outside WRs are better with single and cushion coverage than when pressed. The other receiving options (backs & TEs) are not good route runners and seem to need a physical advantage to outrun their defender.

Trying to fix this during the season by having the next guy step up and expecting more from established players is producing an inconsistent offense. Trying to create a new role for RBs would be much more disastrous.

 

I also found it funny late in Monday's game, Miller leaked out into the middle for about a 5 yard dump off from Tannehill, but he acted so surprised when he got the ball that he almost didn't know what to do with it. We throw to our backs so infrequently that when we do actually do it, they're so surprised by it that they stumble and fall.