Robinson and Moses played important minutes at DE. When Traylor goes out, Wright has to move over to his spot. Joey Porter was then playing DE.

So those two playing several downs helped. Last year we played 8-9 guys on our DL, this year we play 6, almost all DT's.

 

Quentin Moses could end up being an extra day 1 draft pick for us in the previous draft. What a talent he is . . . who has seemingly found a home here at Miami. For a team that is 0-11, there is nobody I feel is deserving of the #1 pick that we truly need. QB is good, RB is good, Jake Long/Dorsey is not worthy IMO (RT #1? I think Dorsey is overrated). . . I'm guessing maybe Chris Long would be the best guy but geez with the #1? Iono man, I really don't want the number 1 pick, but its looking inevitable now.

 

This year Moses came into the team late. He's showed some moments, but this offseason and next training camp are where we'll see if he's got it or not. I'd love for him to work out but I wouldn't bet the farm on it just yet.

 

We're in a situation where we have so many needs that this year, we may finally have our #1 pick overall traded for more picks/players.

 

I honestly would take a little less, to trade down . . . the contract to sign would be huge, and it only solves one player. We aren't as bad talent wise as we thought earlier this season . . . its finally starting to come to light that the coaching has been quite awful this season . . . and excuses can't be made.

In the end, we may have to take McFadden if we can't trade because nobody else I cant picture as a #1 overall.

 

Granted, I never WANT the #1 pick overall, but if this is the year fine.

I will be glad if we have the #1 pick each round however, if not the first round based on clear talent this coming draft. Keep in mind, per the NFL way of life, injuries happen, off-field garbage happens, and #1 talent is still valuable each round. Based on the unknowns, I say take the #1 overall and pick the best player regardless of position. You have to in this day and age. (Presuming you cant trade down, etc).

So if we have #1 pick, and cant trade down so be it, I say take the best player regardless of position and let the results of a training camp battle speak for itself (any position is wide-open in this franchise: RB, QB, OL, DB, LB, WR whatever).

If the first round #1 overall doesnt look great for us so be it, but I know the #1 pick each and every round following will be our best chance to improve this team and its depth.

 

Running back is not wide open. We already have our franchise back. And we have too many running backs. Heck, with this offensive line, all of our rb's have been successful; we can use and throw away running backs like Denver does.

 

loll yea right you wish. plz dont say how good our line is just yet. since RB went down our ypc is goin down every week. lets be realisitc, our o line is average. GOOD O LINES run with teh GOOD DEFENSES our o line doesnt do such a thing. and btw, good o lines give more hten 3 step drops. but htats right we are dolphin fans we are in denial, our o line is amazing.

 

Well I would love to think Ronnie Brown is our franchise RB, but facts are facts and health/injury concerns for 3 straight seasons still state that if the best player in the upcoming draft by leaps and bounds is McFadden and no other team is willing to trade up for a fair return, then I wouldnt or couldnt be upset with his selection as #1 overall.

A healthy Ronnie would be viewed as a franchise back, but 3 straight years of missing games still means you have a question mark to some degree at running back and having a 2nd solid running back is not the worst thing for this franchise.

And this OL is average at best, what has been nice this year, is that they seem to be more consistent as a unit, but we need to upgrade significantly still on the OL.

 

hell yea big dog has a big brain! finally someone with some sense and sports expertise in them.
I agree i woudl go with iether Dorsey (although i dont like DT so early iwht many DT this year in teh draft) or McFad. IM on McFads nuts as i was on RB. prob wiht RB is he doesnt have that 2nd gear that RW had or many backs and he doesnt stay healthy. imagine when he comes back wiht his ACL injury, more injury prone and slower possibly now. Miami considered Peterson last year but said RB was a strenght at the time and 100 bucks says b/c teddy was on the board. they said they had planned to get ted rd 1 and Beck next and they did get lucky n got it.

Hagan can't beat out Booker which is pathetic. the guy is slow PERIOD so thats a big time advantage for hagan and he still can't. MIami needs a BIG playmaking WR ala Sweed or Hardy.

 

Peterson was drafted two picks before us, how exactly did we consider him?

 

That's exactly it. Moses has looked pretty good so far in limited action, but he's been asked to play in one dimension in limited time.

I think conditioning is a big issue. When you look at him, he's not in stellar shape. There's no muscle definition, for a relatively lean built player. If I had to wager, his conditioning was a part of why he's a rookie on his third team.

 

That would be ridiculously overkill. You're going to spent the #1 draft pick, and give a contract in excess of the 6 year, 61 million contract JaMarcus Russell got because you've got a potentially elite runningback that's somewhat injury prone? That's the kind of situation where you get a pretty good #2, not a record breaking contract #1.

The salary cap implications pretty much completely kills that. That would be an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to pay players who rarely can be on the same field at the same time.

 

Ok, agreed that RB and QB would be the two toughest positions to pick with #1 overall this year. But if we have it, and if RB or QB shake out to be #1 and #2 overall rated guys, and most importantly no single team is offering to trade up, then what do you do? Do you take the 3rd ranked guy strickly cause of position that isnt RB or QB?

Its all a quessing game right now, but my point is the same, if you have the #1 pick and you do not take the guy that is light years ahead of every other player in the draft than shame on this organization. RB's come and go based on injury, etc. I just dont think we could pass on McFadden cause we think Ronnie will be 100% and last a full season when he hasnt done it yet.

 

Don't know if you were aware of this, but Derreck Robinson and Matt Roth were teammates all four years at Iowa. Ironic that Robinson's chance with Miami came because Roth was nicked up.

 

If we're able to get the Cowboys interested in McFadden, we would be able to trade down to where we can take Sweed and fill multiple holes on our defense.

 

I dunno. That's a decision someone else would thankfully have to make, but the reality of the situation is unlikely to be what you are describing. We're all playing "What-if's" here, but yours is pretty far removed from conventional wisdom at this point.

Glenn Dorsey and Chris Long are critically considered quite reasonable picks at the position, and are both big needs.

Let's look at the example of Reggie Bush, then.

More hype than McFadden, a susposed head and shoulders best player, taken by a team who didnt really need him. I dont know how you'd personally describe that situation, but it sure as hell isnt good.

The history of high priced runningback by committee situations has been far from a winner as of late. Your solution to our problem is akin to treating a torn ACL with decapitation.

 

Ok, DT and DE, if it shakes out like that than fine. All is solved.

No its not - no need for hyperbole. Granted we both are speculating on how it all turns out, but are you stating that McFadden is a Reggie Bush type NFL caliber running back? You dont think McFadden is more of an NFL pure running back than Reggie Bush is?

 

In terms of play style? No, he's not. Which makes him a whole lot less complementary to Ronnie Brown. It doesnt change his prospects as an NFL player, though.

 

We should make noises like we want McFadden, especially if he performs well in the workouts, as I doubt he will go to the Scouting Combine.

If we end up with him, fine, but for me it would make more sense to then trade down and out of #1.

Here is the one thing that finheaveners may be missing, last season it was two points, if had averaged 16 pts, we would have made the playoffs, this season it is 3 points, if we had made up 3 pts, we would be close to contending for the playoffs (0-11 I know..6 losses by 3 pts or less)

Drafting a Dorsey is not going to make up 3 pts, nor will drafting a Long, we need offensive firepower and we can sign an Haynesworth or someone similar.

As far as "Q" Moses, who knows, last night was a different situation then normal, he looked good but pretty much every Defensive player looked good last night.

 

I don't know about that, you can't win without defense, stop the run, and stop the team. Dorsey or Long could help big time. We need a defensive stud with our first pick, we can use one of our two second round picks on a WR.

 

That's a completely nonsensical argument.

Offensive players are not worth points, nor if we went back in a time machine would a set amount of points in retrospect have won the game if it were played over. There are thousands of variables involved.

It's uh, also worth noting that our defense is giving up 25.2 points a game, 27th worst in the league. Improving on that would probabaly help win games as well.

 

We can sign a run stopping DT. or a pair of them, and still draft some offensive firepower.

Is a Glenn Dorsey going to be worth 3 points a game in Defense or would a McFadden average and extra 3 points a game on offense?

Thing about a Defensive player, they need help to make a defense better, even a Merryman is not the whole show, a single offensive player can takeover a game and make a team "better".

It is very rare to find any single defensive player that can do that, guys like LT, Reggie White etc, there are none of them available this Draft, only McFadden...

 

Offensive players are worth points and in measurable ways, the Patsies this season compared to last for example, R.Moss already has what 13 tds?

Run stopping DT's go for less money then pass rusher do, we can sign them, explosiveness on offense costs big bucks no matter which way you slice it.

 

Who?

Uh, who knows?

It's Merriman, and no, that's the same thing as offensive players. They are all on a team together, as far as I know. A runningback is not scoring points without reasonable blocking, reasonable hesitation/positioning from the safeties in fear of the passing game, etc.

How does an offensive linemen score points? If a receiver scores a touchdown, how many points did the quarterback who threw him the ball score?

Why, out of curiousity, do actual paid, qualified NFL GM's bother drafting things besides offensive skill players with high draft picks?

Seriously, someone needs to play a little bit less fantasty football.

Uh, we've got no idea who is going to be what. That's sort of, you know, a huge part of the mystery of the whole process. Some players potentially can be the next great at that position, others explode spectacularly, and no one reliably knows who will do what.

 

Strangely, I don't play fantasy football...

Seriously though, as long as we are playing at boiler plate GM, who would win more games for us? A stay at home DT, or a fast Running Back?

Our oline is the one unit that has played well and we have actually stocked it with some draft picks who can play some football, all Dorsey could be is building block, it would take more drafts just to fill in around him.

 

Neither one "wins games". It's a combined effort of the other 21+ players on the field.

Did you notice for example Ronnie Brown having two 200+ yard games in a row, followed by two 150+ yard games in a row with a grand total of 0 wins this year?

PS- You didnt answer any of my questions at all.

 

Haynesworth comes to mind, Tank Johnson maybe, will have to see who resigns with whom.

They are equal, but some are more equal then others...Barry Sanders, LT, etc.

A running back is in a far better position to score points then a DT is..

A scrub QB can still hit a Terrel Owens, a stud QB with Derek Hagan will not be throwing many TD's at all do you think?

How many #1 pick in the draft lineman does it take for Tony Romo to hit TO?


None of course, because Olineman can be picked up later in the draft, or signed via free agency etc.

How many points has Mario williams scored for the Texans? didn't they have to draft Okoye this season as well? Why? Could it be that single DT, no matter how great, needs other players around him to play well, and that requires more resources dedicated to making that DT's job easier.

We already have Satele, Hadnot and Carey, how many more olineman would we need to make a McFadden better? To that I would say none, he would alrady have a supporting cast on the Oline.

Because some Defensive players are so outstanding that they are worth it, Julius Peppers comes to mind, he went #2, but there are no J peppers this time around, no Cb's that really stand out, and no DE's that give the value that for the #1 that a McFadden would.

If there were a clear Defensive Player worth the pick by both potential and performance and durability, then we should be all over them, there just isn't that guy as of yet.


Trying to shoe horn Dorsey into the #1 because he seems like a run stopping player that we need in the middle seems a real stretch to me, 6 yrs, 63 million for an oft injured player who even when healthy last season was never projected as the #1 pick is myopic, he stayed in school and got injured, that is no reason to make the guy a millionaire and burn our hopefully only #1 pick ever.

Look at his 2006 numbers, he still didn't play even as well as Chris Long did this season.

True, this is speculation/taking an early stake as to who the #1 pick should be, as such it is all opinion.

 

How many Td's did Ronnie score?

How often is he injured? Wouldn't it make more sense to take a quality compliment to RB who can score as well for the times we can reasonably assume that RB will be hurt?

 

Awesome, an oft-injured headcase and a guy one bounce away from being out of the league. Albert Haynesworth isnt going to come cheaply either.

Absolutely not even close to what I asked. If a quarterback throws a TD, who scored the points? The QB or the WR?

None, really. It does however, take good blocking, with generally correlates with good players, which generally correlates with an expenditure of resources relative to that.

Yes. Yes, that's true. And absolutely no different from any other player on the field ever.

Julius Peppers is worth it? He's scored only two career touchdowns.

And that's not really answering why actual, bonafide, honest to goodness employed, paid for their contributions NFL general managers seem to have no regard for your philosophy whatsoever.

 

Glad you liked them, there will be others to be sure.

Which one fills the need for us? A great offensive "skill" player can make plays with a poor supporting cast, a DT cannot, an olineman is lost in the shuffle.

Bingo, very rare is the lineman who can go #1 and be actually worth the pick the list of DT's who went #1 and played like no 18 is pretty long.

So which unit would the #1 pick help the most? The one that only needs some finishing touches, or the one that needs a total rebuild?

On defense we need more then the #1 pick can deliver, needs in the secondary, Dline, LB's, on Offense we already have a solid core of players on the lines, a QB of the future, and good not great Te's and Wr's.

One or two players on "O" can bring us up to speed, on defense it is closer to 5 or 6.

We can take them later in the draft, not reach for a DT at #1.

Durability, talent, performance, yes he is, there is no one like him this draft, so we must take the best value that we can, a player with the above qualities, who is a game breaker.

Deion Sanders would be worth it, a LT would have been worth it as would have Derrick Thomas and Bruce Smith. Defensive players who can change the game by individual performance would be worth the #1 pick.

editted rude comment out..bad tone on my part.

 

No, they can not, with extremely rare exceptions. Look at what happened to Larry Johnson this year with a poor supporting cast.

A DT can make plays with a poor supporting cast as well. Can he singlehandedly make a bad defense good? No, but neither can any other position by themselves.

Uh, do you have any actual comprehension of where the elite LT's in the league were drafted?

Uh, the one that needs a total rebuild? If you can find a player with the correct value that fills your biggest need, then you generally pick it. I'm not sure why that has to be communicated.

Let me get this straight... The Defense needs more help than the offense, so it's logical that the team not use it's biggest resource on its biggest need? Are you on drugs?

You've got no qualifications or ability to identify if there is or is not a Julius Peppers in this draft, first of all.

Also-

If a quarterback throws a TD, who scored the points? The QB or the WR?

Why do why actual, bonafide, honest to goodness employed, paid for their contributions NFL general managers seem to have no regard for your philosophy whatsoever?

 

Walter Payton comes to mind here...

Randy Moss hasn't transformed the Pats Offense? Adrian Peterson the Vikes?
Lewis when he was a Raven?

Hmm let's see (by memory) Lawerence Taylor went #3, Bruce Smith went #1, Derrick Thomas went #3, Deion went either #2 or #4.....

5 holes to fill or 1 or 2? WE can hit on McFadden and our offense moves up, if we take Dorsey, would our Defense move up then?

Because the single resource will not fill our greatest need on Defense, but it can fill a large need on offense, we have some 7 other picks to use on Defense.

As players McFadden can do more to improve our team then Dorsey can on offense, why take a reach with the #1 pick?

McFadden can score, Dorsey if we are lucky, can get 5 sacks and clog the middle if he doesn't get hurt, then we have to draft him "help".

McFadden can step right in and contribute.

Julius Peppers dominated in college on both the Football field and the Basketball court, in the vast majority of games he played in his senior season he was the best player on the field clearly.

BPA works, we should try it this draft.

Can a wr take a one yard pass 99 yards? Can a QB throw a 99 yard pass to scrub Wr?

 

Well I am sorry to jump into yer conversation... but the thing is by taken McFadden you are giving up on Ronnie after the first year in a while that Ronnie showed that he was able to give you something...

You build teams from the middle out. We got our QB, we got our RB, we even drafted a RB in the third. Drafting McFadden would mean that in the last years we will have given up 4 first rounders and two third rounders for running backs.... and to be honest we already have one that can really ball.

Now if we get Dorsey, he stuffs the running attack. He takes bodies off Zach, which might give him another year with us. Which would be great since our second rounder could be a replacement for him to be groomed while the great thomas is still around. He makes briant westbrook running for 170 yards on us a bit hard. He makes a lot of small things. Not flashy things, but a lot of things that are just needed.

Hell a lot of people in college media talk about Dorsey as the best player in the nation... and look at what Haynesworth has done for the Titans, he impacts them when he plays in ways that go way beyond scoring or not (so much so that they have lost every game he is out).

 

Dorsey has been injured this year, look at 2006's numbers and even then, 8 sacks, with solid supporting cast, he did make tackles for losses, but he also had really good players around him.


Put it another way, if Albert Haynesworth was offered us in trade for the #1 pick straight up, would you take that deal?

Ronnie has been injured every season for us, what would make anyone think that 2008 would be any different? Would you rather have Jesse Chatman running the ball for us in Nov, or McFadden?

Btw "Q", I don't mind at all, jump on in the conversation before Disgustipate blows a gasket...:)

 

I just dont want to be paying two players top money to play the same position... we would be paying two top 2 overall players money to play rb...

I know Ronnie breaks down, and a suitable back up for him is something we must look for... i also know ronnie needs carries to be good, or at least has shown that in the pros.

If I am honest I would rather have McFadden running the ball for us than ronnie... but I dont want them both. For me this is an either/or proposition, not an and proposition. If we trade Ronnie for another first rounder (to get say Laurentiis...) then hells yeah I want McFadden, but that is not going to happen. And since it is not going to happen then I want the biggest baddest best player that fills a need... which means Glenn Dorsey.

The no. 1 pick is going to ask for a lot of money, id rather grab a good rb in the 4th round to be RB back up, than have two overpaid players there.

 

Fair enough, for me i'm not hung up on McFadden as in "we have to have him" but he might be the best talent available at the #1 as I have -0- confidence in Dorsey on several levels.



I would dearly like to trade back and out of the #1 pick and pick up choices on the way out, if we cannot trade, then we really should look at the Best Player available no matter the position if we are stuck at #1.

And I like Ronnie, as a player and a person, how much a GM sitting on the #1 should bet on Ronnie is another story..durability is everything INOW.

And believe it or not the best way to trade back would be to talk up McFadden preDraft....:phone:

 

I would almost take McFadden just to make sure he would not fall to the 9ers pick that the pats have... That would just make me cry.

 

I don't see him making it past the Jets.

Hopefully that will motivate the Cowboys to trade up with us, or even...man this is painful..the Patriots could trade up with us....:alien: