raiders second rounder, michael mitchell

"anlgp wrote:

I justify it because they hold the position to make the pick and I don't.

How in the hell did this turn into a Pat White thread :confused2:

:rolleyes:

Okay thats how you handle things not me. I like to express my opinion on the matter instead of just going with the crowd and thinking its a great pick.

"B.Sebo wrote:

I would take him above Pat White. lol.

Ridiculous statement.

"BuckeyeKing wrote:

Pat White round 2 takes the cake.

At least Mitchell will get about 30+ more snaps than White :pity:

I understand the move but correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we use the Wildcat to get our best athletes on the field because we didn't have all the pieces?

Stop being so dramatic. Pat White in round 2 is where he was projected to go he wasn't a reach and he is going to add a lot to the offense. The guy can throw the ball as well so if Henne doesn't work maybe just maybe he can become the starter.

Did Sparano or anyone from the Trifecta come out and say that or is just speculation? If they did I don't remember.

"Brown42000 wrote:

Ridiculous statement.

Stop being so dramatic. Pat White in round 2 is where he was projected to go he wasn't a reach and he is going to add a lot to the offense. The guy can throw the ball as well so if Henne doesn't work maybe just maybe he can become the starter.

Did Sparano or anyone from the Trifecta come out and say that or is just speculation? If they did I don't remember.

With 1 of our seconds would you rather have Anquan Boldin or Pat White?

I'm quite White would have been there at the end of round 2 perhaps even 3.

I fully believe Pat White can become a NFL QB with some work. I hope he see's the field more than just from the Wild Cat.

"BuckeyeKing wrote:

:rolleyes:

Okay thats how you handle things not me. I like to express my opinion on the matter instead of just going with the crowd and thinking its a great pick.

I'm not quite where you are; I'm somewhere in between.
I want to think White is a great pick. I know he has talent and he was very successful in college...lots of rushing yds for a QB and decent passing stats as well. But....
In order for him to be useful within our wildcat option obviously he has to be a part of our base offense. Now I do believe learning 3-4 routes would be enough to warrant attention from defenses - and as long as he has decent hands it wouldn't be so difficult for him to learn. Incidentally, Hines Ward played QB in college.
He's also got decent enough size to line up at RB.
However, IMO Ginn, Camarillo and Bess are going to be better options at WR. And Brown, Williams and Cobb are going to be better options at RB. So will we be limiting ourselves to have him on the field when we don't use the wildcat?
Ultimately, I defer to our FO, but at this point I'm wondering about this pick.....just as you are.

"BuckeyeKing wrote:

Pat White round 2 takes the cake.

At least Mitchell will get about 30+ more snaps than White :pity:

I understand the move but correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we use the Wildcat to get our best athletes on the field because we didn't have all the pieces?

If White only plays QB for the Wildcat, he had better make a huge impact. Otherwise the pick is not good for Miami. There was plenty of talent left on the board.

However if he beats out Henne next season for the starting gig...

You get the point, I don't see him just as a slash player past this season. Chad P will lead this team this season. But next year is up for grabs between Henne, White & Pennington.

I really think that Henne will have his hands full next season fending off White. Man it's great having all these QB's right now. We have a legit starter in Pennington. Then Henne & White both seem to have special talents.

Let's hope we have 2 very good QB's for the future with Henne & White.

GO FINS!!!

LOVE THE DRAFT...STILL GRINNING FROM EAR TO EAR!!!

Miami drafts 2 WR's in round 3 & 4...

Still think Pat White is just for the Wildcat. He is here to compete for the starting job, after Chad Pennington is gone.

"New Era wrote:

Miami drafts 2 WR's in round 3 & 4...

Still think Pat White is just for the Wildcat. He is here to compete for the starting job, after Chad Pennington is gone.

I sincerely hope not. He's what - 6' tall? With our penchant for big OL he will have a very hard time seeing downfield.

"late again wrote:

I sincerely hope not. He's what - 6' tall? With our penchant for big OL he will have a very hard time seeing downfield.

he is, jeff ireland has said so. you can find the video on miamidolphins.com under the draft presser recap

"anlgp wrote:

he is, jeff ireland has said so. you can find the video on miamidolphins.com under the draft presser recap

Oh I know what Ireland said. I heard the same thing you did.
I just think Ireland is blowing smoke up White's butt with that. I think Ireland is telling him yeah you will have the chance to compete at QB , but he's thinking "but once you realize you are too short and your arm isn't strong enough then hopefully you'll abandon this youthful folly and let us guide you"

"BuckeyeKing wrote:

Listen there are so many WR's in this draft that play better at WR. There is no guarantee that White even succeeds as a Wideout. Its a very hard position to learn. Now I'm fine with using him all over the field he is easily are worst WR on the roster and maybe just maybe the 3rd best QB. I'm looking at John Beck to be traded tomorrow.

I hope White succeeds but I just don't know how anyone can justify the pick at this time.

Look, if you think your going to have Pat White running double moves down field, your fooling yourself. He'll be running drag routes and he'll be asked to make plays in space. He'll be used in multiple areas.

The raiders are not the only team that was high on this guy. Another team was debating on picking him in the third round.

"late again wrote:

I sincerely hope not. He's what - 6' tall? With our penchant for big OL he will have a very hard time seeing downfield.

I guess Drew Brees is just a fluke...or is flutie the fluke.

I am pretty sure that Pat's feet can help him find lanes. If he had such a hard time seeing over a line. What was the height of his line at WVA?

Sure teams would love to draft 6' 4" QB's weighing 225 lbs like Danny Boy...but they are hard to come by. It normally takes a TOP 10 pick, but in a lot of cases a TOP 5 pick.

Matt S. (#1) & Mark S. (#5) both are 6'2"...that is still short compare to a 6'6" QB.

The question is do they have what it takes to play in the NFL? We will see...

Joe Flacco #5 QB (Looks to have a bright future)
Height/Weight: 6-6/230

Derek Anderson #3 QB (Might be done if he falls on the depth chart again)
Height/Weight: 6-6/230

JaMarcus Russell #2 QB (Can you say refund)
Height/Weight: 6-6/260

Carson Palmer #9 QB (Winner)
Height/Weight: 6-5/230

Matt Schaub #8 QB (Cannot stay healthy, but shows greatness, then takes a step back, could be from injuries...)
Height/Weight: 6-5/234

Kerry Collins #5 QB (Restored his career the past season, lets see if he sticks)
Height/Weight: 6-5/245

Jason Campbell #17 QB (Game manager, not much more)
Height/Weight: 6-5/230

Philip Rivers #17 QB (Great QB, him and Cutler both need nannies on the team)
Height/Weight: 6-5/228

Peyton Manning #18 QB (HOF QB, best since Dan)
Height/Weight: 6-5/230

Ben Roethlisberger #7 QB (Proven winner and plays up to his size every down)
Height/Weight: 6-5/241

Matt Ryan #2 QB (Looks like a great QB)
Height/Weight: 6-4/220

Matt Cassel #7 QB (Played with the Pats...lets see what he does with no talent)
Height/Weight: 6-4/230

Kyle Orton #18 QB (Average at best)
Height/Weight: 6-4/217

Matt Hasselbeck #8 QB (Injuries have derailed him towards the end, but was a very good QB for years)
Height/Weight: 6-4/225

Eli Manning #10 QB (Very good QB, just nothing special (HOF) like his brother)
Height/Weight: 6-4/225

Trent Edwards #5 QB (Not impressed at all with him. They will draft QB after TO rips his play)
Height/Weight: 6-4/231

Chad Pennington #10 QB (Solid career, injury bugs, great game manager)
Height/Weight: 6-3/225

Brian Griese #8 QB (Traveling salesman)
Height/Weight: 6-3/214

Marc Bulger #10 QB (Injury bugs, seems to have the talent, but looked horrible the last 2 seasons.)
Height/Weight: 6-3/204

Jay Cutler #6 QB (Very Good QB and just needs to stop whinning so much and fighting with his sister Rivers)
Height/Weight: 6-3/233

Tony Romo #9 QB (Good QB, just needs to win in December)
Height/Weight: 6-2/225

Kurt Warner #13 QB (Simply an amazing QB when giving time to pass)
Height/Weight: 6-2/218

Aaron Rodgers #12 QB (Good QB still has not reached full potential)
Height/Weight: 6-2/220

Brett Favre #4 QB (Retired for now...lol. Had to put him in...HOF QB)
Height/Weight: 6-2/222

Jake Delhomme #17 QB (Never really liked him other than a game manager)
Height/Weight: 6-2/215

Donovan McNabb #5 QB (One of the best today...can make extra time with his feet)
Height/Weight: 6-2/240

David Garrard #9 QB (Good season, bad season, lets see how he does this season)
Height/Weight: 6-1/245

Tyler Thigpen #4 QB (Showed some promise, but the new FO wants their guy.)
Height/Weight: 6-1/225

Drew Brees #9 QB (One of the best passers in the game today)
Height/Weight: 6-0/209

Some of the best QB's in the league are 6' 0" - 6'2"... But if you can find a 6'6" guy...hell yeah take him. But it does not mean he will pan out any better than a 6'0" guy. It's all about the skills and the DESIRE to make it happen.

"New Era wrote:

I guess Drew Brees is just a fluke...or is flutie the fluke.

I am pretty sure that Pat's feet can help him find lanes. If he had such a hard time seeing over a line. What was the height of his line at WVA?

Sure teams would love to draft 6' 4" QB's weighing 225 lbs like Danny Boy...but they are hard to come by. It normally takes a TOP 10 pick, but in a lot of cases a TOP 5 pick.

Matt S. (#1) & Mark S. (#5) both are 6'2"...that is still short compare to a 6'6" QB.

The question is do they have what it takes to play in the NFL? We will see...

Joe Flacco #5 QB (Looks to have a bright future)
Height/Weight: 6-6/230

Derek Anderson #3 QB (Might be done if he falls on the depth chart again)
Height/Weight: 6-6/230

JaMarcus Russell #2 QB (Can you say refund)
Height/Weight: 6-6/260

Carson Palmer #9 QB (Winner)
Height/Weight: 6-5/230

Matt Schaub #8 QB (Cannot stay healthy, but shows greatness, then takes a step back, could be from injuries...)
Height/Weight: 6-5/234

Kerry Collins #5 QB (Restored his career the past season, lets see if he sticks)
Height/Weight: 6-5/245

Jason Campbell #17 QB (Game manager, not much more)
Height/Weight: 6-5/230

Philip Rivers #17 QB (Great QB, him and Cutler both need nannies on the team)
Height/Weight: 6-5/228

Peyton Manning #18 QB (HOF QB, best since Dan)
Height/Weight: 6-5/230

Ben Roethlisberger #7 QB (Proven winner and plays up to his size every down)
Height/Weight: 6-5/241

Matt Ryan #2 QB (Looks like a great QB)
Height/Weight: 6-4/220

Matt Cassel #7 QB (Played with the Pats...lets see what he does with no talent)
Height/Weight: 6-4/230

Kyle Orton #18 QB (Average at best)
Height/Weight: 6-4/217

Matt Hasselbeck #8 QB (Injuries have derailed him towards the end, but was a very good QB for years)
Height/Weight: 6-4/225

Eli Manning #10 QB (Very good QB, just nothing special (HOF) like his brother)
Height/Weight: 6-4/225

Trent Edwards #5 QB (Not impressed at all with him. They will draft QB after TO rips his play)
Height/Weight: 6-4/231

Chad Pennington #10 QB (Solid career, injury bugs, great game manager)
Height/Weight: 6-3/225

Brian Griese #8 QB (Traveling salesman)
Height/Weight: 6-3/214

Marc Bulger #10 QB (Injury bugs, seems to have the talent, but looked horrible the last 2 seasons.)
Height/Weight: 6-3/204

Jay Cutler #6 QB (Very Good QB and just needs to stop whinning so much and fighting with his sister Rivers)
Height/Weight: 6-3/233

Tony Romo #9 QB (Good QB, just needs to win in December)
Height/Weight: 6-2/225

Kurt Warner #13 QB (Simply an amazing QB when giving time to pass)
Height/Weight: 6-2/218

Aaron Rodgers #12 QB (Good QB still has not reached full potential)
Height/Weight: 6-2/220

Brett Favre #4 QB (Retired for now...lol. Had to put him in...HOF QB)
Height/Weight: 6-2/222

Jake Delhomme #17 QB (Never really liked him other than a game manager)
Height/Weight: 6-2/215

Donovan McNabb #5 QB (One of the best today...can make extra time with his feet)
Height/Weight: 6-2/240

David Garrard #9 QB (Good season, bad season, lets see how he does this season)
Height/Weight: 6-1/245

Tyler Thigpen #4 QB (Showed some promise, but the new FO wants their guy.)
Height/Weight: 6-1/225

Drew Brees #9 QB (One of the best passers in the game today)
Height/Weight: 6-0/209

Some of the best QB's in the league are 6' 0" - 6'2"... But if you can find a 6'6" guy...hell yeah take him. But it does not mean he will pan out any better than a 6'0" guy. It's all about the skills and the DESIRE to make it happen.

Well I would say your research is incomplete and your conclusions are biased.
It could well be said according to the above that the majority of successful QBs today are 6'2 or taller. The others are the exception to the rule.
Two inches can be significant when your job requires you to look over and past individuals in front of you.
I would think that it would be important to know the height of the QBs OL in order to form a complete opinion.
Our OL is big. Smiley and Thomas are 6'3. The rest are all 6'4 and taller.
If you do not think that matters then so be it. I happen to think it does.
But again you are reaching conclusions based on incomplete research.
Don't misunderstand me. I never said that it's impossible for White to succeed as a QB. However, while in the pocket he will have a hard time seeing over the heads of our OL. Cleats and helmets add even more height to players who are already 3-7" taller than the guy.

"late again wrote:

Well I would say your research is incomplete and your conclusions are biased.
It could well be said according to the above that the majority of successful QBs today are 6'2 or taller. The others are the exception to the rule.
Two inches can be significant when your job requires you to look over and past individuals in front of you.
I would think that it would be important to know the height of the QBs OL in order to form a complete opinion.

Please look it up and post it. Start with Brees & Flacco...smallest and biggest. It would be really cool to know the height of the OL. If you want to...you know what I mean.

"late again wrote:

Our OL is big. Smiley and Thomas are 6'3. The rest are all 6'4 and taller.
If you do not think that matters then so be it. I happen to think it does.
But again you are reaching conclusions based on incomplete research.

While I wish football was a science, it is not. The intangibles are a large part of any player. While he might not see the 3-5 yard route as good as a 6' 3"+ QB, he is a playmaker. You are more than welcome to get the OL height for all the players I listed. I listed only the QB, based on the topic of him being to small to play the position. It is harder for a 6'0" staute QB to make plays in the NFL. But it gets easier when the QB can be mobile or even a threat to run. If he was only 6'0" and could not extend the pocket with his legs, then yeah I would say that chances are he would fail, unless he was just a great pure passer with finely tuned skills. White is not that...he is the mobile guy.

Also if you wanted to be more accurate on the whole thing, you would need to add the variables like... How tall is the DL, LB, DB...after all at one point they will be attacking the gaps of the line.

I just wanted to dismiss the ol' he can't play QB he is to small. I did not want to create a full scale replica model of each play, and team. Feel free to do so, to create your point. I guess based on what you have said that should be done for everything. Because without all variables, EVERYTHING is biased and incomplete.

"late again wrote:

Don't misunderstand me. I never said that it's impossible for White to succeed as a QB. However, while in the pocket he will have a hard time seeing over the heads of our OL.

It does make a difference, more so on 3 step quick passes. But lanes open up on 5 & 7 step drop backs even more. The angle in which a 6' 0" tall QB sees is still worse than a 6' 3" QB. You are right about it being more difficult.

"late again wrote:

Cleats and helmets add even more height to players who are already 3-7" taller than the guy.

Yeah but they all wear them...not just the oline. Just poking fun with you man.

I just feel that he has a chance to be a QB in this league. Let's wait until the season starts, by then it could be well known, if he can see over the OL.

Maybe they should just let him wear bigger spikes...just kidding.

"New Era wrote:

Please look it up and post it. Start with Brees & Flacco...smallest and biggest. It would be really cool to know the height of the OL. If you want to...you know what I mean.

While I wish football was a science, it is not. The intangibles are a large part of any player. While he might not see the 3-5 yard route as good as a 6' 3"+ QB, he is a playmaker. You are more than welcome to get the OL height for all the players I listed. I listed only the QB, based on the topic of him being to small to play the position. It is harder for a 6'0" staute QB to make plays in the NFL. But it gets easier when the QB can be mobile or even a threat to run. If he was only 6'0" and could not extend the pocket with his legs, then yeah I would say that chances are he would fail, unless he was just a great pure passer with finely tuned skills. White is not that...he is the mobile guy.

Also if you wanted to be more accurate on the whole thing, you would need to add the variables like... How tall is the DL, LB, DB...after all at one point they will be attacking the gaps of the line.

I just wanted to dismiss the ol' he can't play QB he is to small. I did not want to create a full scale replica model of each play, and team. Feel free to do so, to create your point. I guess based on what you have said that should be done for everything. Because without all variables, EVERYTHING is biased and incomplete.

It does make a difference, more so on 3 step quick passes. But lanes open up on 5 & 7 step drop backs even more. The angle in which a 6' 0" tall QB sees is still worse than a 6' 3" QB. You are right about it being more difficult.

Yeah but they all wear them...not just the oline. Just poking fun with you man.

I just feel that he has a chance to be a QB in this league. Let's wait until the season starts, by then it could be well known, if he can see over the OL.

Maybe they should just let him wear bigger spikes...just kidding.

Or fit him for some platform shoes...:hi5:
I've got to tell you, you've already done more research than I'm generally inclined to do, so thanks but no thanks.
I'll leave that to someone who loves to do it like..........alen. That's something I could see him digging into.
Truth is IMO the avg ht. for an NFL OL is probably pretty close from team to team, wouldn't you think? I just wanted to harass you a little.
To be honest, I'm warming up more and more to the pick. The one sure outcome IMO is that it signals the end to Beck as a Fin.

"late again wrote:

Or fit him for some platform shoes...:hi5:
I've got to tell you, you've already done more research than I'm generally inclined to do, so thanks but no thanks.
I'll leave that to someone who loves to do it like..........alen. That's something I could see him digging into.
Truth is IMO the avg ht. for an NFL OL is probably pretty close from team to team, wouldn't you think? I just wanted to harass you a little.
To be honest, I'm warming up more and more to the pick. The one sure outcome IMO is that it signals the end to Beck as a Fin.

Yeah height wise... I would think the weight goes more to the system they run. Dallas loves big wide bodies that moves the earth with every step. Others like faster big bodies... But either way they are gonna be bigger than Pat White.

When I think about the Wildcat and Pat White... It would take several pages to sum up the possibilities with him in it.

Teams will not put 9 or 10 in the box on the Wildcat anymore. If they do he will move around deep in the pocket long enough for Teddy to blow the doors off someone. I think Teddy will be a big part of the Wildcat as well now.

Ricky will be the loser on the Wildcat... Ronnie will be taking his spot, except on the few plays that Ronnie runs it for the short yard pickups. Then Pat will remove the starting QB from that formation & playcall.

Pat White has enough speed to buy time for the pass or make a guy miss and get into the secondary in a hurry. He is a great runner and could be a great QB... time will tell.

Miami might end up being the number one team for plays over 40 yards this season. The Wildcat will backfire some, but in the end it will be a game changer for Miami.

"anlgp wrote:

The raiders are not the only team that was high on this guy. Another team was debating on picking him in the third round.

yup check this out. He was going 2 picks LATER! :eek:
according to PFT.

The biggest shock of the first day of the draft, according to the folks who supposedly know the draft inside and out, is that the Raiders selected Ohio University safety Mike Mitchell with the 47th overall pick.

But, as it turns out, Mitchell wouldn’t have otherwise plunged to round seven.

According to the Chicago Tribune, the Bears had planned to take Mitchell two picks later.

Mitchell said Saturday that, at the start of round two, the Bears claimed they’d be drafting him at No. 49.

“When did that, I was like, ‘I’m going to be a Chicago Bear,’ ” Mitchell said. “That’s what I was thinking.”

And so, with Mitchell gone, the Bears traded out of the spot.

“Unfortunately the players we targeted at 49 did not fall to us and we weren’t in a position that we were able to move up,” G.M. Jerry Angelo said.

So take heart, Raiders fans. Your front office doesn’t consist of idiots.

Unless Angelo is an idiot, too

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/nfldraft/chi-26-haugh-bears-nfl-draft-apr26,0,4716296.column
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/26/raiders-didnt-reach-for-mitchell/

looks like posters here dont know as much as they think.
:shifty: :lol:

Well I guess it wasn't a reach.

"BuckeyeKing wrote:

Well I guess it wasn't a reach.

I still think it was but it ended up a different team who reached. It's like bidding $1.1 mil for a $100 bill over someone bidding $1 mil for that same bill. Just a saying, not any indication of Mitchell's future performance of course.

"Regan21286 wrote:

I still think it was but it ended up a different team who reached. It's like bidding $1.1 mil for a $100 bill over someone bidding $1 mil for that same bill. Just a saying, not any indication of Mitchell's future performance of course.

We'd just be laughing at Chicago instead :yes:

or would we? :shifty:

I also heard Baltimore was planning to take him in the 3rd. I know Baltimore's scouting is well defined. How is Chicago?

You never really know.

I'm rooting for the guy. People were unnecesarrily harsh on him on ESPN. Do those guys know these are kids they're making fun of? Just because they're unprepared.

Yea, jdang. I said I hope he becomes a HOF'er just to show everyone out there (including myself).

Didnt Chicago say they were planning on taking Mitchell two picks after Oakland?

"Stringer Bell wrote:

Didnt Chicago say they were planning on taking Mitchell two picks after Oakland?

yes

"alen1 wrote:

I think the biggest mistake people are making with the Pat White pick is that they are assuming he will be used in the Wildcat only. That won't be happening. Like I said in the Club Level when the pick was made, Pat White will be used as a slot receiver and while he lacks the experience at the position, he'll be running drag routes and finding the soft spot in the zone. I made this comparison earlier but they're interest in Percy Harvin continued on to Pat White. They want a guy who can make plays in space, period. Harvin is much more dynamic but White is also dangerous in the open field because he's elusive.

*ahem*

White: They're going to give me a shot at the quarterback position. They said they didn't draft me as a receiver, they drafted me as a quarterback. And that's something that I've prayed for. So I'm excited and ready to get to work.