If we head into the offseason with our current O-line problems, which position would you put the most resources into fixing (resources mean a combination of FA money and/or a top draft pick):
Right Guard
Right Tackle
Left Tackle
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Which O-Line Position Should Be The Top Priority This Offseason?
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Left Tackle
28.4% -
Right Tackle
36.5% -
Right Guard
35.1%
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Right guard. Interior push for the run game IMO. The defense is already a strong point. Force turn overs and control the clock is the way to go IMO and make it easier for Tannehill to play the position and take some weight off his shoulders so he's not bearing the burden.
the 23rd, Oboy, cuchulainn and 1 other person like this. -
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Hey, I understand. I was already concerned about that before the loss, so maybe I'm a doomsayer in need of some optimism therapy. lol.
I think the resistance to getting a Left Tackle is, what about the sunk cost of a 2nd round draft pick spent on Jon Martin? He may be worse at RT than LT. So does he become a backup in his third season?
That means we will have spent three picks in the top two rounds on a LT in six years.
And STILL have holes at RT and RG. I am more of the mind that you plug the turnstile-sized gash at RG which is the shortest path to the QB and that helps Tannehill have room to step up into an actual pocket. That helps our LT. And a better RG helps our run game AND the runningback screen game, both of which take pressure off the pass rush and the QB.
I think, big picture, there is more overall benefit and less cost to a RG than a new LT. -
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:cry::glare::headwall:
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That's interesting, because we've had a vote for RT, a vote for LT and a vote for RG now.
So you are going by who is playing worse. YOu don't think the positions have different levels of importance, inherently? -
Let me repeat the question... ;)
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"Average" for a LT is the equivalent of "Dreadful" for a RT.
He goes from games where I say.."Hey..he's allright"..to games where he can conceivably lose the game By HIMSELF. (No Hyperbole)mi2cents and ckparrothead like this. -
new owner!
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They do in a vacuum, but I think the context here is important.
Jonathan Martin is young and despite a mediocre showing last night has clearly improved. He's looked like a pretty average starting LT this year, and I think you can reasonably expect him to improve. Clabo has been bad, is on a one year deal, and he's relatively old. He probably will not improve.
I'm a bigger fan of Guard than most, but I don't think it enters into the conversation. -
I don't think Martin has looked average. I think that because we were so used to seeing Long struggle last year, then Martin looking even WORSE than Long when he took over, that Martin's improvement comes off as him playing decently. To me, he was banishably bad last season, but we let him develop to a below-average LT this season. I disagree with Section that he will single handedly lose you games (if Sherman schemes properly and Tannehill spots what he needs to and makes the right calls this does not happen). But Martin does hinder the offense. The thing is, so do Clabo and Jerry.
It really is...
Clabo-Mart-and-JerryPhoenician Fan likes this. -
Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member
In a word, YES....
i polled right tackle because of clabos age and general ability, compared to the lt and rg guys we currently have, but here we are again, another year, same problem.... -
Martin is in his second year and playing the toughest position on the OL. I think he has the tools, he just needs time to develop. Duane Brown is a guy I compare him to. He struggled for two seasons, became average in his 3rd, and was elite the last two seasons.
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I don't see how you can talk about where he conceivably could have lost a game by himself and be talking about this season.Stitches likes this.
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TO add to the debate... Adusted Line Yards from Football Outsiders.. meant to reflect hw well a team rushes behind different parts of the Oline.
MIA RUSHES (Adjusted Line Yards)
LEFT END (Outside Run)
4.46
12
LEFT TACKLE
1.70
31
MID/GUARD
3.58
23
RIGHT TACKLE
4.67
7
RIGHT END (OUTSIDE RUN)
4.72
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Not trying to be negative, but anyone have the scoop on how Winston is doing in Arizona? I guess its pure hindsight, but I was all about signing him. I haven't really watched any Cardinals games yet so I haven't seen how he's playing.
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Football Outsiders Ranks Us Dead Last for Pass Protection
MIA
Rank 32
Sacks 18
Adjusted Sack Rate 11.2%
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol -
Why oh why do we see pretty much this exact thing year after year.
Save for a brief moment when Smiley and Grove were healthy, same crappy play, different year.
Thankfully, we have been spared the "..we just have to gel.." crap we hear year after year.mi2cents, Onehondo and Springveldt like this. -
To answer the question though I agree with Clabo, he's been rough, not Colombo bad, but it hasn't been good. I know Watkins played guard in Philly, but didn't he play tackle in college? I'd like to see Yeatman and Watkins get a shot on the right side of the line. The right side of the line, I guess line in general has been the only thing I'm pretty down about right now.
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Long was also a pretty average LT last season. I think people have lost perspective of what that looks like because of Long's former play. Jonathan Martin is pretty much exactly average in any sort of metric you wanna come up with, and there's no mitigating circumstances making him look better than he actually is. If anything, it's the opposite.
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Stop signing aged veterans at RT.
It all depends on what's available in free agency/draft. Reality is I try Watkins/Thomas at RG first. Try Yeatman at RT. IF those options don't help then:
In theory I would draft RT, sign a RG if there was a quality one entering their prime available. Then take a LT prospect in the mid rounds and have a real competition between them and Martin. -
To show who has given up sacks etc this year (also note progression/regression compared to prior year)
JON MARTIN
RICHIE INCOGNITO
MIKE POUNCEY
JOHN JERRY
TYSON CLABO
jboogie and Section126 like this. -
Eh, JMart is an avg pass blocker and poor run blocker.
John Jerry is going to get Tannehill injured, of the 5 spots on the OL RG is the one with highest percentage of sacks given up when the player is defeated, that sort of pressure up the gut is just deadly to the offense.
On the 3rd and an inch, guess who got SMOKED instantly at the LoS blowing up the play.
None other then the Kung Fu Panda of suck our very own John Jerry, he actually looks like he has regressed, could be his knee injury from TC tbh though..simply don't care he must be replacedcuchulainn likes this. -
Sack rate is really not a good metric at all. You're basically ignoring like +/- 70% of pressures which are not really inherently less problematic.Phoenician Fan likes this.
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No. I am saying that he has "had" games where his play can conceivably lose a game by himself. Namely a close one.
Most important is 3rd and 7 or more. If a LT allows 4 pressures on 12 3rd down dropbacks....and the team loses by one possession..you can make a solid argument that that Hypothetical LT's play cost you the game. -
Notice that the Oline, according to STATS Hosted Solution, has accounted for 6.5 sacks this year. (http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7155&team=15)
That means 11.5 sacks are either attributed to a RB, a TE, or unblocked but not a lineman's responsibility (Tannehill blowing the protection call or us getting outcoached).
If you look at it that way, only 36% of Tannehill's sacks are being attributed to mistakes by the O-line.
64% is coming from somewhere else. Or several somewhere elses. -
This is right.
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Not a bad plan. And I feel like Guard signings work out better than Tackle FA signings. Based entirely on Alan Faneca. lol.
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I remember when I woke up one morning...looked at a line that had Jake Long, Justin Smiley, Jake Grove, Donald Thomas and Vernon Carey and thought we had a championship unit. WHAT HAPPENED! lol.
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Ok, but you can construct equally plausible scenarios for loads of players at a variety of positions as well, and I think those parameters give wiggle room for players who fall outside of either side of "average".
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True. It is also a product of being spoiled by Long's first two years and having stellar LT play for most of the 30+ years of Dolphins football I've watched.
Agree on Clabo..he is racing Jerry for the honors of being our worst offensive lineman. -
We have two offensive lineman on this team, Mike Pouncey and Richie Incognito. Clabo blows, been saying that and that's why Atlanta cut him loose. John Jerry sucks and they have been trying to replace him since OTAs started. Jon Martin at best, is a backup on 31 other NFL teams. Whoever is chossing lineman the last two years completely SUCKS, For those of you that have hopes Dallas Thomas will work out ? the kid blows, The kid from Philly we signed blows, the kid from Chicago we signed blows. Its stupid silly now. Its more then evident this front office is taking advice on Oline from scouts that should be retired or fired. Lets face it, who are the last two decent Oline we signed, draft or other wise ? Answer, Pouncey and Incognito, after that its been a dam joke and no one can deny that fact especially Ross. Ireland needs to be given a bus ticket because he is the one that decides on the scouts.
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Well, a little off topic, but not really... the Ravens are set to acquire LT Eugene Monroe from the Jags for multiple THIRD day draft picks. I wouldn't mind at least bidding with the Ravens for his services. I mean a 4th, 5th and 7th? the equivalent of a third round pick... I'd do that for Monroe.
Bpk likes this. -
Sorry to feed the Ireland haters ammo here, but looks like he was sleeping on this one:
Ravens acquire LT Eugene Monroe from Jaguars:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5198
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