Si.com - Sorry Adam Gase, even you can't fix Ryan Tannehill

"Bumrush wrote:

Greg Bedard with Sports Illustrated with an article focusing on Ryan.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/13/ryan-tannehill-adam-gase-dolphins

Some snippits:

Deer in Headlights syndrome.

However, as per my post a week ago, the records show that Tannehill used to be excellent under pressure. It was one of his strengths. So the question is - what changed? How does a QB known for handling pressure and throwing well on the run, become a QB who is running less and not handling pressure well?

And then - does this give us hope that Tannehill, contrary to the article's title, can change and improve in this area, perhaps even coming back to a place where it's a strength?

"Galant wrote:

However, as per my post a week ago, the records show that Tannehill used to be excellent under pressure. It was one of his strengths. So the question is - what changed? How does a QB known for handling pressure and throwing well on the run, become a QB who is running less and not handling pressure well?

And then - does this give us hope that Tannehill, contrary to the article's title, can change and improve in this area, perhaps even coming back to a place where it's a strength?

Don't take this the wrong way, but was it really a strength? Or was he simply more comfortable in that particular system?

I didn't see your post, Galant, but I'd certainly give it a read.

I think we're seeing a fifth-year guy in his third or fourth system? I can't imagine how tough it is.

With that, Tannehill isn't doing himself any favors. Crappy line or not, his awareness has fallen significantly (or was it ever there?). I think he's waiting and waiting and waiting for a receiver to get open. I think Gase has a tough job evaluating when his guy cannot even get an appropriate amount of time to throw. Kind of a cruddy situation all around if you ask me.

"Colmax wrote:

Don't take this the wrong way, but was it really a strength? Or was he simply more comfortable in that particular system?

I didn't see your post, Galant, but I'd certainly give it a read. ...

"This will have to be short because I don't have the time for a long post right now, but I've been noticing articles popping up talking about RT17 being bad against pressure. This is striking to me because I remember in his first year, and maybe second, he was almost better against pressure than without. So I'm not sure a "Ryan can't handle pressure" story is valid in and of itself. I want to know what changed.

Exhibit A - PFF (2014)
Exhibit B - Phinsider (2012)
Exhibit C - Draft Analysis as Excellent Under Pressure (In this case Draft Sharks)

Just quickly, some thoughts off the cuff:

1 - The first thought that comes to mind is I remember him moving a lot more at the start. More roll outs, more throwing on the move, using his legs. In the last three seasons it feels like he's become more stationary for whatever reason.

2 - The OL hasn't ever been great, but it does feel like the team took a few steps back over the RT years. I still wonder about the loss of Incognito on that line. The guard position instantly got bad and has only looked like it's recovering this year - maybe.

3 - Run-game/Tight-ends - Back at the beginning of RT17's entry we were running with Reggie Bush, then Lamar Miller, and we had Charles Clay. Were the early teams great? No. But we may well have lost better than we thought talent at key spots, and also hurt team chemistry.

4 - Coaching and scheme changes. Bottom line - this team has had holes all over the place and not been efficient in fixing them. I wonder whether all the efforts to fix the WR's etc. and bring in star players at premium contracts wouldn't have been better spent building and reinforcing a solid OL and depth overall, giving the Dolphins, and Tannehill, and better foundation to build on, rather than a leaky dam where they're plugging one hole while other bigger ones open up. I suspect all this change, especially with the receiving core, losing TE talent, losing RB talent, and not fixing the OL until late on, hasn't done a lot to make Tannehill a 2016 QB who used to excel under pressure and at the moment is struggling.

Side note - I've consistently said this will be a watch-and-see year, a season of growth. I here remind myself of that, and the knowledge that if we're going to see anything real from this team, it will more likely be next year than this one."

http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?89874-Tannehill-vs-Pressure-A-Reversal-What-s-up

Thats the million dollar question. "What happened". He used to be much more mobile and elusive and effective on the run. If he never did those things before then I'd chalk it up to he just cant do it. BUT HE DID IT ,EFFECTIVELY. Did too many H.C's , O.C.'s , offensive systems, play calls , schemes , atrocious O.L.'s , etc.... ruin this guy. ??? I would love to know the answer . Its just plain frustrating as hell right now not knowing WHAT HAPPENED.

"Galant wrote:

"This will have to be short because I don't have the time for a long post right now, but I've been noticing articles popping up talking about RT17 being bad against pressure. This is striking to me because I remember in his first year, and maybe second, he was almost better against pressure than without. So I'm not sure a "Ryan can't handle pressure" story is valid in and of itself. I want to know what changed.

Exhibit A - PFF (2014)
Exhibit B - Phinsider (2012)
Exhibit C - Draft Analysis as Excellent Under Pressure (In this case Draft Sharks)

Just quickly, some thoughts off the cuff:

1 - The first thought that comes to mind is I remember him moving a lot more at the start. More roll outs, more throwing on the move, using his legs. In the last three seasons it feels like he's become more stationary for whatever reason.

2 - The OL hasn't ever been great, but it does feel like the team took a few steps back over the RT years. I still wonder about the loss of Incognito on that line. The guard position instantly got bad and has only looked like it's recovering this year - maybe.

3 - Run-game/Tight-ends - Back at the beginning of RT17's entry we were running with Reggie Bush, then Lamar Miller, and we had Charles Clay. Were the early teams great? No. But we may well have lost better than we thought talent at key spots, and also hurt team chemistry.

4 - Coaching and scheme changes. Bottom line - this team has had holes all over the place and not been efficient in fixing them. I wonder whether all the efforts to fix the WR's etc. and bring in star players at premium contracts wouldn't have been better spent building and reinforcing a solid OL and depth overall, giving the Dolphins, and Tannehill, and better foundation to build on, rather than a leaky dam where they're plugging one hole while other bigger ones open up. I suspect all this change, especially with the receiving core, losing TE talent, losing RB talent, and not fixing the OL until late on, hasn't done a lot to make Tannehill a 2016 QB who used to excel under pressure and at the moment is struggling.

Side note - I've consistently said this will be a watch-and-see year, a season of growth. I here remind myself of that, and the knowledge that if we're going to see anything real from this team, it will more likely be next year than this one."

http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?89874-Tannehill-vs-Pressure-A-Reversal-What-s-up

It might be Ryan has mentally decided he does not have the weapons and just mentally locks up.

Regardless of the why, I just don't think he's ever going to have it. His pocket awareness and instincts have been an issue since day 1. I don't think he's a natural born leader that inspires his teammates.

He's not the only problem on this team and I'm quite confident that with a better run game and pass blocking, his play would improve. I don't think he'll ever be better than a mid tier QB and I wonder if he is clutch enough to help this team win when the game is on the line and it matters.

Miko Grimes got in his head ;)

Me and a few others have been saying these same things for 3 seasons. Taking the rest of the world a while to see I suppose. He lacks instincts and he processes things very slowly.

One guy had a very solid reasoning for ryan as a whole, suggesting he is a low dopamine kind of guy. Funny because I think it makes sense.

Get that man some adderall.

"Fin-O wrote:

Me and a few others have been saying these same things for 3 seasons. Taking the rest of the world a while to see I suppose. He lacks instincts and he processes things very slowly.

One guy had a very solid reasoning for ryan as a whole, suggesting he is a low dopamine kind of guy. Funny because I think it makes sense.

Get that man some adderall.

We need to bring back Philbin and have him threaten Tannehill's job again... Weekly. That should get him going.

"Bumrush wrote:

We need to bring back Philbin and have him threaten Tannehill's job again... Weekly. That should get him going.

Funny how that worked out.

A handful of games in Ryan's career it seemed like he came out and played angry...I think he did pretty well in those spots.

This is why I thought benching him for a half in one of these games could've worked out for the good this season.

"mlb1399 wrote:

Regardless of the why, I just don't think he's ever going to have it. His pocket awareness and instincts have been an issue since day 1. I don't think he's a natural born leader that inspires his teammates.

He's not the only problem on this team and I'm quite confident that with a better run game and pass blocking, his play would improve. I don't think he'll ever be better than a mid tier QB and I wonder if he is clutch enough to help this team win when the game is on the line and it matters.

But then he'll put together a great drive and score like he did in Seattle ( until the D gave it away) , and make me think maybe he does have it

"RGF wrote:

But then he'll put together a great drive and score like he did in Seattle ( until the D gave it away) , and make me think maybe he does have it

But that's the problem. He only shows flashes of having it, mostly for just a drive here and there and on rare occasion for a quarter or two.

He's never done it consistently, and after 4 and 5/16th years it's pretty clear the reason is because he just can't.

I mean.. you can't blame surrounding cast when you repeatedly show in the same game with the same surrounding cast you play great for a few drives but otherwise flop.

"cbrad wrote:

But that's the problem. He only shows flashes of having it, mostly for just a drive here and there and on rare occasion for a quarter or two.

He's never done it consistently, and after 4 and 5/16th years it's pretty clear the reason is because he just can't.

I mean.. you can't blame surrounding cast when you repeatedly show in the same game with the same surrounding cast you play great for a few drives but otherwise flop.

To be fair, actually you can. Because if you look at those drives as examples this year, the pass blocking has held up. Circumstances change from drive to drive, if those circumstances routinely holding him back (pass blocking for example) were to improve, so does his play. They correspond. Where the issue comes in, is when he makes a terrible play, or takes a terrible sack on plays where those negative outside circumstances haven't shown themselves. Nitpicking, sure, but it's true.

"brandon27 wrote:

To be fair, actually you can. Because if you look at those drives as examples this year, the pass blocking has held up. Circumstances change from drive to drive, if those circumstances routinely holding him back (pass blocking for example) were to improve, so does his play. They correspond. Where the issue comes in, is when he makes a terrible play, or takes a terrible sack on plays where those negative outside circumstances haven't shown themselves. Nitpicking, sure, but it's true.

What I mean is you can't blame the lack of consistency (that he only shows flashes) over 4 years on surrounding cast. I agree you can blame the surrounding cast for a single play, drive or even game.

Omg. Sports illustrated said it. It must be so. I'll stick with gase's judgement thank you

"adamprez2003 wrote:

Omg. Sports illustrated said it. It must be so. I'll stick with gase's judgement thank you

didn't you say the same thing about Philpin?

So, is Greg Bedard saying Tannehill should be cut right now? If not, what is the point of the article? If so, do the Dolphins go with Moore of Daughty?

Could someone please give me some clarification?

"smahtaz wrote:

So, is Greg Bedard saying Tannehill should be cut right now? If not, what is the point of the article? If so, do the Dolphins go with Moore of Daughty?

Could someone please give me some clarification?

I think it's pretty clear. He doesn't think Tannehill can be developed into a good QB.

The point of the article, at least my hunch is, to get attention and ultimately sell advertising. There's really nothing to discuss in Dolphin land besides how bad we are. This is a highly discussed topic with this fanbase and a way to generate attention(viewers, advertising, $$$).

"adamprez2003 wrote:

Omg. Sports illustrated said it. It must be so. I'll stick with gase's judgement thank you

Gase is simply using this year to determine the future of Tannehill with the Dolphins. He obviously understands this team has a lot holes and isn't going to win many games this season. So starting another QB on a bad team isn't going to help his evaluation of Tannehill.

If this was a potential playoff team and Tannehill was playing as inconsistently as he is, I have no doubt Gase might look at changing QB's. Yet the Dolphins are just an overall bad team and playing Tannehill makes sense because it gives Gase and the front office an entire season to determine if he is or isn't their long term solution at the QB position.

My belief is that Gase will come to the same conclusion most of us have after watching Tannehill the last 4 plus years. That conclusion being that while he shows flashes of being a decent NFL QB from time to time, he just doesn't possess the overall skills at the position to remain the QB of the Dolphins beyond the 2016 season.

I believe the Dolphins will draft a QB in the 2017 draft to develop as their long term starter and will sign a veteran QB to lead the team until this young QB is ready to take over the offense. I do not see Tannehill being a member of the Miami Dolphins in 2017.

"dolphin25 wrote:

didn't you say the same thing about Philpin?

Not really. I hated Philbin. I said it about tannenbaum when they reupped the contract and got him a new set of receivers

"RGF wrote:

But then he'll put together a great drive and score like he did in Seattle ( until the D gave it away) , and make me think maybe he does have it

The thing with that drive, and so many of QB17's good drives/games/highlight reel, is that it's more players making plays than anything QB17 is doing, it's not him making wow plays, it's the players.

2 consecutive plays made that drive;

the Landry catch and run, this was a bad play on QB17, but he stepped in **** and came out smelling like roses, Stills gets open deep quickly, and just at the moment QB17 should be throwing it to Stills, he looks to the other side of the field, doesn't see anything he likes, short is open for a short gain, meanwhile, Landry across the middle has not been picked up by anyone, lol, QB17 finally sees him, hits him with a 6yd pass, closest guy is downfield about 10-15yards, Landry does Landry things, big gain.

the Williams screen, very next play is a dump off screen that Williams takes 30yds to the 2yd line.

QB17 was along for the ride on that drive, he did his job well enough, but giving credit for manufacturing that drive just doesn't hold water, the OL deserves the credit, if you have to give it to someone, QB17 did absolutely nothing spectacular on that drive, Landry did, Williams did, but not QB17.

Time to move on once the year is over. Front office needs to start evaluating QBs for the future right now.

"Galant wrote:

However, as per my post a week ago, the records show that Tannehill used to be excellent under pressure. It was one of his strengths. So the question is - what changed? How does a QB known for handling pressure and throwing well on the run, become a QB who is running less and not handling pressure well?

And then - does this give us hope that Tannehill, contrary to the article's title, can change and improve in this area, perhaps even coming back to a place where it's a strength?

Audibles.