Should we value the opinion of a....former Brown's scout?

 

I definately lack confidence in our recievers. I think this year is going to be kind of a "wait-and-see" year, where we have a bunch of unproven talent that needs to step up to the next level. We will have to throw them all at a wall and see what sticks....

 

Miami could use help at wide receiver, but there's no way in hell they are the worst.

 

We arnt great at WR and i think we are on paper, one of the worse. I wont change my opinion on that. I will change my mind when i see production out of the WR's we have.

 

Much hinges on young, unknown and unproven players.

As it stands, this is the least intimidating group in the NFL. That could change, but it is what it is right now. I imagine our tight ends will be utilized a great deal.

 

I have severely low expectations for the WR group so any thing better than worst will be a surprise. This year to me is all about the development of RT, hopefully this unimpressive group doesn't impede that.

 

Bess and Hartline will be valuable contributors, they've both posted 800 + yards seasons as secondary targets in run oriented offenses. That's two certainties. Two more than the Rams or Browns have. Many teams only have one go-to guy and a bunch of question marks. We have a player in Gates with gamebreaking ability, that was probably most affected by the lockout last year. Between Wallace,Moore,Pruitt,Cunningham,Mathews,Fuller... we're looking for 2 rosterable backups and PS guy. It's not that bad, especially considering the type of offense, which spreads the ball around and utilizes multiple TEs. We do have Bush, Miller, Egnew, and Clay who all can split wide.

It's become clear to me since this draft that we'll go big at WR next year, just like it was obvious after last year that we would go big at QB this year. By 2013 we'll be turning it over to RT... the WR depth will be settled, and we'll target a big-time wideout with a high pick or trade.

 

Pruitt has always been a mystery to me. This is going to be his 4th season on the team, so somebody must like him. He's withstood years of the dreaded roster churning. It seems like every preseason I read about him making some nice plays in the inter-squad stuff and then he never saw the field in preseason games. I guess we'll find out for sure this year as I don't think he's eligible for the PS anymore.

 

There's loads of teams that are at best comparable to what the Dolphins haven now. The Broncos, Browns, Jaguars, Jets, and Rams all come to mind.

 

This is the Walsh offense. You don't need great WRs to run it successfully. You need a smart, accurate QB and a group of wideouts who can run good, clean routes, get some separation, and can catch the ball. Miami has guys who can do that.

Offensively, my main concerns are at QB, on the right side of the OL... maybe at TE... but, not at wideout. Not until the QB position is solidified.

 

We are going to be inclined to be skeptical about wrs because of misses there by Ireland. With the continued piling on by critics and fans on this wr corp I am pulling for them big time. If I am Philbin or the position coach I am using this media stuff to motivate. Articles this morning panning Wallace and Moore for the terrible year they had last year. Questioning Gates pick and multiple articles on his injury. Serious panning on Cunningham. Fuller, an undrafted free agent, is getting as much if not more media time than Cunningham. I am pulling for BJ. The big question is: Is it total lack of talent this year or will it be the way they are utilized? I am not an Omar Kelly fan, but I agree with him on this . Don't even talk to me about the wrs until they put on pads and run in this offense.

 

Our QB situation isnt set with Tannehill being a Rookie and Moore and Garrard backups in many ppls eyes. Elite WR's can run good and get separation and can catch. They often get QB's out of trouble by making plays. Bess and Hartline dont make enough plays. Thats just my opinion. Egnew will help. Lets see. Should be a good battle at WR in training camp and pre-season.

 

Skeptical indeed, especially with Gates..... He's the most gifted athlete on the offense, after Bush. But still very raw, coming into his first full offseason now while learning the WCO. He'll battle the rest of em, but I'd assume he'll be given every opportunity to win! As for the rest....there's got to be a keeper or 2 in there ! Many/Most would find work elsewhere.

 

True. It's not like Walsh had a WR whom is widely considered to be the greatest wide receiver of all time and is considered by many to be the best NFL player to ever play football. :tongue2: :pointlol:

 

The key factor that continues to be forgotten is the new offense. It is a Walsh offense, and it doesn't require the "Marshall" role. This offense requires receivers that can play multiple parts and know how to run routes. The common ground among all the Dolphin rookies is "route" running. No one is asking them to beat corners down the sideline. The offense is methodical, and sequential. You will get the big play, but it is set up by much more subtle gains. Many of the critics, fan and national media, are judging this group based on the old offense. Look what the Patriots did last year with a less than intimidating receiver corp. They utilized mismatches with the tight ends and with Welker. Can Gates or another guy be the Welker type? The best mismatches right now on this team are at tight end and running back depending on the development of Egnew, Clay, Miller, and Gates. You would hope Bush is already there.

 

But he was not a speed guy, and many of the same arguments against him are being made against some of the Dolphin rookies. Jerry Rice was not fast, many argued he couldn't separate, and many said he wouldn't scare anybody. He thrived in that offense because he was a perfect match to it.

 

IMO Rice's biggest strengths were his ability to stay in balance throughout the route and then transition from catch to run. It wasn't so much his speed, but rather his ability to do everything at a consistent speed. That's very key in a timing offense. People think that the WCO requires size, but I don't think that's as important as his balance and body control You prefer the WR to be big enough so that he can take hits without it disrupting his timing, but IMO that's more about balance and body control than it is about size. My concern about guys like BJ and Burress (as some are touting) is that they're big guys, but not really fluid receivers. IMO they guys who'll flourish in this offense are the ones that can do everything fluidly and make it easy for the QB to hit them on time.

 

Yeah, but it wasn't about whether he was a speed guy or not. It was a response to the comment that in Walsh's offense, you don't need a great WR and Rice was arguably the greatest in NFL history.

 

The greatness came with his match to the offense, not because he came into the league with fanfare like a first round pick. I think it was properly said he played with "consistent" speed and with balance. He was not a Marshall type or flashy. He wasn't going to overpower, or out run, but he was focused, kept his routes, and used proper skills to create separation. He was an unbelieveable worker. He honed his craft. But he was in a great offense that allowed him to build his strengths. His skills were a perfect match for the west coast offense. You are arguing that he was great coming into the league and his greatness is what made the offense. My argument is that the offense allowed him to show his skill set. Not sure what he would have looked like in a different offense.

 

On the bold part: I am? Wow. I don't recall typing anything of the sort. I'll have to go reread my comments. I thought that I just responded to the comment that Walsh didn't need great WRs to successfully run his offense by mentioning that he had arguably the greatest WR of all-time. I didn't mention Rice's specific skill set. I never mentioned that it was his greatness that made the Niner's offense, though it definitely did help, no? :pointlol: Believe me, I'm well aware of Jerry Rice's skills and strengths, etc. Also, he was pretty good coming into the league. His NCAA record for total career touchdown receptions stood until 2006.

.

 

Walsh's offense didn't begin or end with Jerry Rice.

 

You don't have to give me the stats on Jerry Rice. I have been on the street named after him. I am a Mississippian. I am aware of what he has done. Maybe I misread what you were attempting to communicate. But you need not give me the history. I am very well aware of it, long before he was drafted.

 

Myth. Jordy Nelson was notorious for always stealing the box of raisins in the break room at Packers HQ. Did he think he was above the law? Were the raisins really complimentary? Maybe, maybe not; doesn't excuse the brazenness. James Jones was well known for his tantrums whenever the equipment crew failed to do his laundry; especially the time he went off on the staff "I don't understand why everyone else's uniform is clean but they ignore my laundry, this isn't right". Sheesh, that guy.

The Packers had more divas in their WR corps than they are willing to admit.

 

Rice absolutely came in to the league with 1st round fanfare. He was and still is one on the best college recievers ever. Granted he came from a small school but his stats were sick. And what the heck does Marshall have to do with anything? Rice was the 16th pick in the his draft and Marshall was the 119th.

You're arguement has no basis. What if Rice played with Marino of Fouts?

 

Who would know more about bad players at the skill positions? :shifty:

 

He was a relatively unknown player outside the south. His days at Valley were legendary. What made his career great in the NFL was the same elements that made it great at Valley. However, it was also vital that his skill set matched up well with what Walsh wanted to do. It was a marriage made in heaven. Walsh's offense and Jerry's skills set. No one knows what would have happened if he had gone to another type of offense. It is useless to speculate. But that marriage of the wco and Rice's skills play into what became greatness. That is taking nothing away from Walsh or nothing away from Rice. I think some of you interpret me wrongly. So if you think I have no respect for Rice, or that I am making excuses for his success, then you are wrong.

 

Nice read on Tannie. Altho to an extent I agree with caution on the WR, but it could be a blessing in disguise. No true #1 could really leave secondaries wonder who the fack they wanna cover hard or double-team. In the WCO, that ball is goin everywhere and everyone gets love. I have a pretty high excitement level rolling into this year.

 

Your post :up:

Your avatar :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

 

In terms of what Marshall has to do with this argument, it has been stated that the real reason Marshall may have been traded is that he didn't fit the offense. I am not sure if he would have or not. This whole line of dialogue is about "fit". The media has questioned why Ireland didn't seek a "alpha" receiver, a number one guy. The WCO doesn't require such. It requires receivers who are not afraid to play many roles, interchangeable roles. It doesn't hurt that a receiver is talented. But it is a different approach to finding that go to guy. Yes, Rice was a first round pick, but that doesn't mean he was widely known. And no, I am not comparing Rice to Cunningham, who has similar measures. Cunningham may be out of the league in the near future, but I find critics are attaching his skill set, when it is similar to Rice. Not fast, but able to create separation with the use of feet and precision routes. Productive in college. Cunningham is the number one reciver in the history of Michigan St. football. Rice set a ton of records in college. Neither players was going to win a 40 contest, but a qb knew they would be there if the ball was any where in the area.

Marshall won't win a 40 contest either, but he will fight for the ball. He is referred to as an alpha receiver. A number one guy. He expect the ball all the time. It was probably determined prior to his trade that he wasn't going to like that role as being a part of the sum. Is that the only reason he was traded. Only the front office and coaching staff know. But there continues to be constant reference to replacing Marshall in a media that doesn't understand or has forgotten the old Walsh offense.

Rice's numbers will certainingly lead one to believe he was the definition of a number one receiver. And you could argue that . But the reason is more about chemistry with the qb than the offense he played in. This will be my last response to this apparent issue with my comments. Agree or disagree. I know what I am contending, and it is purely my opinion. I am not saying Jerry would have been less in a different offense. We will never really know. And it is unimportant to speculate. But when making critical comments about the wrs in this offense, make sure you are arguing apples to apples.

 

Stop reading my mind! :lol:

 

The Niners traded up to 16 to draft Rice, if they didn't the Cowboys were set to take him at 17. I don't know how anyone can say that he wasn't looked at as a first rounder coming out.

 

Nicely described..

Man never got caught from behind, because the man was always getting a head start.

 

.... or the lack of actual talent in the WR corp. could leave defenses the luxury of not feeling the need to cover hard or double team anyone and load up on us to stop the run.

This mind set around there the the Walsh offense needs no talent at WR to me is hogwash.
You can't just line up anyone at WR because it's the Walsh offense and expect success.
WR's still need to have the ability to beat coverage and having a top talent that scares a defense enough to put extra attention on them works in whatever offense you run out onto the field.

Unless one of the youngsters steps up this year and shows some ability you are going to see defenses focus on stopping our run and daring us to pass.
Utilizing Reggie Bush more in the passing game this year will be of vast importance. Hopefully Thomas and Miller can take the rushing load off his shoulders.

 

Makes you wonder why the Niners would do that when they knew they had an offense that leaves top WR talent irrelevant.......

 

I NEVER once claimed that it did. :pointlol:

 

I wouldn't think so. That's actually what I previously mentioned, but regarding his skill set. I just did that because you claimed that Rice didn't have the fanfare of a first round pick and wasn't great or highly touted or whatever coming into the draft and obviously, he was.

Oh yeah, true. "Mississippian", cool name. :pointlol: So for why then am I telling you? You should know better than anyone.