A little hump day honesty - or 'ump day honesty - pardon my rant, but...
I found the Kyle Van Noy move concerning.
The guy was clearly a decent player and leader. The kind of guy you want. This isn't going to be a move that's perceived well by other players, I think. And honestly, this sort of thing, plus the leaked comments about Tua, makes me question the idea that Flores has successfully established a good culture in Miami. It takes a few years of consistency before a culture can be established, so the work done in one or two years can be destroyed. I hope that's not the case. It might not be. But I have some question marks about the state of the franchise right now.
Fitzpatrick felt let down and didn't feel afraid to say so.
Some unnamed players felt let down that the 'best player will play' rule wasn't followed for the QBs - and they also didn't feel too afraid to say so (albeit anonymously).
Our first year OC left. Now his replacement is gone. Now we have two co-OCs.
I really want Tua to succeed, but I'm a bit bothered about the amount of commercial/promotional work he's engaged in, it just seems premature to me (but other young QB's are the same, so maybe that's just how it is now).
If Tua proves inadequate it won't look good for Grier. (And just to be clear, I consider myself still in the 'Tua camp' - just trying to be honest here).
If Ross was involved in the Tua pick, that doesn't speak well of the franchise (but that may not be reality).
CB Jones was paid big money but Howard seemed to be the better piece and it makes one wonder if Jones was worth it.
What's more, there have even been rumours that Howard isn't happy and will look to renegotiate his contract or get moved.
Now KVN is cut.
They did draft, and have now re-signed, Sanders, so that looks like a good move (I won't be cynical here and expect him to fall off!).
As concerns the KVN move itself, one would think it has to be purely financial, and although the COVID year and resulting reduced cap was unexpected, it doesn't seem to put Grier in a good light. If Van Noy was worth the substantial contract he was given then is he really the guy you cut just to save cap space? On the other hand, if he wasn't, then you screwed up the contract in the first place.
I know we're still in the middle of a rebuild but this offseason is really starting to wear on.
If this year or the next starts to fall apart and the Flores and Grier era is a disaster, I might be out of energy with the Dolphins and NFL.
I think for me, beyond any one roster move, good or bad, the main concern is whether the culture in Miami really isn't what it was touted to be, or else if it is, whether Grier, through poor contract/cap management and/or the cutting of players central to the culture build, prevents the establishment of a winning team.
What do you think guys? Am I wrong to feel this way? Am I overly concerned - or not concerned enough? Maybe these are just the expected ups and down that come with a full rebuild - hits and misses, and I just need to go on vacation until the season starts. :D - Anyone with a Caribbean holiday home they can lend me?
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We are just the first to do it... there will be many other teams that will make tough decisions like that one soon..
i dont like it... but i feel like they were forced into that decision due to the lower than expected cap number.Irishman and Dol-Fan Dupree like this. -
I don't like or trust Grier. He's shown me no reason to respect his talent evaluation skills so far. I think we still don't have a top-tier talent evaluator.
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I've had similar concerns. You need look no further than the last game of the season in Buffalo to see that something is not totally right. Nobody showed up. Even the defense, the strength of the team, didn't show up except to leave a big steaming pile on the field.
Not the type of performance that would fill you with hope for the next season. As fans, hope is all we have, watching solid football moves being made and enjoying the results on the field. Getting rid of the leaders is something that Philbin would do.Rick 1966 likes this. -
Its the state of the NFL. Not the franchise. This wont be the only surprise cut... wait and see what other teams are going to do..
Honestly, the owners arent willing to budge taking a hit on their revenue, which is why the cap went about 20 million lower than projected. -
My concern since day one was that building a "perennial championship contender" means you have to nail almost everything perfectly every time (drafts, trades, personnel, front office, etc.). I felt like the owner got hustled with an impossible promise and so far, Flores is the only proven superstar in the building. He's found a way to get minimal talent playing hard and coming together.
Personally, I felt like Tua was unproven simply because of how awesome that Alabama offense was. I'm rooting for the kid so hard and I do think he's going to make strides in year two, but it's going to be a process. That worries me because our super-young team HAS TO BE in win-now mode to take advantage of those big contracts on defense. In a few seasons, those rookies will be entering their second contracts and we'll have tough decisions to make- you can't pay everyone these days. That means we have to continue to draft almost perfectly or the wheels start coming off the bus.
I'm generally optimistic and I think we have a playoff team next season IF Tua develops some AND we get a reliable WR1 AND if we can keep this defense largely in-tact...yet we've already lost Van Noy. I have a feeling Howard is next and that one is really going to sting since he's virtually unreplaceable. So it's really tough to say who this team is past next season; so much depends on Tua really.
I won't say that I'm nervous because I do have a lot of faith in Flores making it all work, so I'm expecting a winning record in 2021. But that doesn't mean we'll be making a deep playoff run and if it doesn't happen by year 4, this entire tear down will have been pretty much for nothing. The other aspect is that the Pats and Jets will both improve next season....NE gets their defensive starters back and the Jets just can't get any worse.....so time is really of the essence. To make Grier's words ring true, we have to have a great year this coming season and I don't know if it happens. We'll be good, but we need this team to be great for the timelines to fall into place. -
I’m not gonna let one cut change my opinion but let’s just say I’ve had my doubts with Grier. I couldn’t be any happier with Flo but Grier has had too many misses to make me feel comfortable.
The 2017 draft was a complete waste. The 2018 draft yielded us a kicker, an average LB and a good but not great TE. That doesn’t even account for selecting Tua over Herbert or the fact that we had 3 1st round picks last year, all of whom were underwhelming. We cannot afford to not have them develop or miss on this draft too.Last edited: Mar 3, 2021Rick 1966 likes this. -
Kyle Crabbs from The Draft Dudes thinks the KVN move indicates the Dolphins are probably going to be aggressive again this offseason:
https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2...y-decision-indicate-for-dolphins-free-agency/
I'm not sure if that's something to look forward to or not...KeyFin likes this. -
One thing to consider is that the lower cap number is something that is not just happening this year, but it will be happening years down the road. There are going to be some penny pushing, the likes of which we have never seen in the NFL.
This is going to be a very frustrating offseason for the NFL players.Irishman likes this. -
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Van Noy is not going to be the only "big name" player cut this off-season.
Irishman and Dol-Fan Dupree like this. -
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Irishman likes this.
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I think the sentiment is totally fair. Whether you love what Grier and/or Flores have done so far or hate it, this is their put up or shut up year.
We all felt great after Sparano's first year but he couldn't sustain it. Will Flores prove different or just a rehash? This is the year we find out.
Although it seems this offseason has dragged, it's actually barely begun. So it's fair to view the KVN cut with a raised eyebrow, but we also need to see how we follow it up, and how many other teams make similar cuts. Who will we bring in? Who will we draft? Which guys take a leap?
The final measure is if we are a playoff team or not. If we are, that's a major sign we have a solid front office and coach pairing. If not, then we should be very concerned, certainly with Grier but also likely Flores.
This is the year. -
Given Van Noy's injuries and stats his cost put things over the top given Van Ginkel's performance with limited play. Compare their stats and Van Ginkel made more plays with less playing time. That is always a formula to lose your starting position or to get cut.
Van Noy: - 61.6 overall grade
- 811 snaps
- 31 total pressures
- 60.4 run d grade
- 27 stops
Van Ginkel: - 79.3 overall grade
- 479 snaps
- 19 total pressures
- 77.6 run d grade
- 22 stopsLast edited: Mar 3, 2021 -
The draft this year will be a big indicator. We can reap some huge rewards with this draft if everything goes well. I am going to stay optimistic till then.
Irishman likes this. -
The whole story is yet to be told, but by being the first to make a move (or at least the first to be exposed as making a move) we opened ourselves up for criticism. Would have been better to hold it under wraps for a week. -
That might explain why it wasn't held under wraps. -
We shall see about 2020s draft soon enough. Three raw 1st round picks will typically result in uneven 1st year play. Grier did hit on the offensive line, upgrading every position the last two years. KVN cut not concerning at all, injury and production did not equal to cost. I am concerned about the OC turnstile.
Beating bad teams put the Dolphins in a position to make the playoffs. Not drinking the cool-aide just yet. Beat someone, like the Bills first.Irishman likes this. -
Too much "Lemming" juice and too many "Lemming" droppings.
A bunch of whinners and not too many winners in these posts!
WE HAVE A TEAM THAT IS IN IT'S ASSENDANCY!
What they did last year with the personnel that they had was nothing short of astonishing! ALL that and people are complaining - it boggles the mind.
Since the hyperbolic boo-hoho has begun, let me point out a few obvious events that have occurred over the last two years.
1) We have consistently improved as a team, based on our W-L record. I don't want to hear any tertiary complaints while this team, as a whole, keeps improving. Constantly improving is all that really counts.
Some of you got your feelings hurt because the team cut or didn't draft your favorites. You know what they say in Russia about that kind of stuff? Toughski ****sky, and I agree with that.
2) We have been put in the position to have very large drafts with several 1st round picks in the last draft and this upcoming draft. This speaks to how well the Front Office has DONE IT'S JOB!!!
3) We have improved the overall personnel on this team across the board using last year's draft and an intelligent use of free agency i.e solid players on short contracts at reasonable (not too high) salaries.
4) There has been nothing done to make me feel this upcoming draft and free agency will be any different. It always begins by taking steps to reduce our cap, which means trading off or letting some relatively good but expensive players go.
I'm a homer, so what! Last year I predicted our W-L record accurately - Did you?
I wasn't a fan of any particular QB to be drafted and I certainly had reservations about Tua due to the severity of his last injury. With that in mind, when we picked him I was happy enough with Fitz that I felt letting Tua sit for a year and learn and heal was the way to go. The coaches didn't see it that way and brought him in eventually to play. He played OK -not great or terrible and this was behind an undeveloped offensive line, which while improving, still needs some major step ups in improvement to allow any QB to be truly effective. We are getting there but are not there yet.
This brings us to this years draft, cap space and free agency situation.
1) We are all set to have another large draft with multiple 1st round picks. We are not in cap space hell like so many other teams and if we continue to draft reasonably well and to use free agency wisely, we are going to improve our team even more this year. I predict we will go 11-5 and possibly 12-4, depending a lot on how well we place in our division. This is not easy to predict with the teams in our division all catching up and beginning to surpass the Pats.
2) It will be interesting to see how well we get set up for next years draft, but we won't know too much until the 1st game of the upcoming season.
I see consistency of the front office and the coaching staff as the most important indicators of who we are and how we are doing.
In the end, it's the W-L record that will tell the tail, not a bunch of "Lemmings"!!!Last edited: Mar 4, 2021ripper1961, Finatik and Dol-Fan Dupree like this. -
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No, I did address his post. You chose to ignore that because you have no argument. I addressed the parts I had a problem with. If I didn't comment on the rest it was because I didn't need to. Why don't you tell us which parts of what I said you disagree with instead. -
My observation is that only about 1/2 of 1st round picks turn out well, and that is across the league. I suspect that there is an attitude among many 1st round selections that consists of:
1) See I made it, so I don't need to change or improve myself in any way.
2) I was selected because I am a star, not a star in the making.
3) You picked me, I didn't pick you, so don't lecture to me.
4) Same bad attitude, different word sets to describe it.
Just my opinion, but it is consistent with what I've observed over the years.Dol-Fan Dupree likes this. -
2) "No, we have a team that had one good season." The second half of your sentence is correct. The first part of your sentence, the "No", is grammatically correct but factually wrong.
We started with a team that had been at the 1st stage of redevelopment. It's first year was one with a tremendous set of changes in coaching and personnel. That we won any games at all was a miracle, but what ever our expectations were, It was the starting reference to compare improvements to. Last year we had a winning record with another significant change in personnel having been involved. It was much better then the previous years team.
That describes ascendancy!
3) Your post did demonstrate two important aspects of my use of the English language.
1) I'm a lousy speller.
2) I understand the meaning of the word "ascendancy", and you do not. -
"No, we have a team that had one good season. If they're actually in their ascendancy (note the spelling), then we'll have another good season and make the playoffs this time."
If we have another winning season you agree with him. Not a huge leap there so nothing to really comment on except being the grammar police. -
And yes, I do understand the use of the word "ascendancy," and one good season doesn't make it an ascendancy. We've done this before, gone from a very bad season to a winning one, even a playoff season...and then dropped off again. If we're really in an ascendancy, we'll do better next year than we did this year. -
Wrong again. You'd think you'd be tired of it by now. We don't know we're in an ascendancy until we maintain it. One good season doesn't mean we're on an upward track, it means we had one good season. -
The progression carried into last season and, for the most part, they again exceeded most expectations (even with starters opting out because of the virus).
To me that is a trend and absolutely a team that is ascending. If they **** the bed this season, well, that puts and end to the upward progression (hopefully that doesn't happen and would be rectified in the following season).Dol-Fan Dupree likes this. -
No, I don't consider it to be part of an ascendancy. I consider it a good sign that Flores is a good coach, but we had a better record the year before and would have had a better record that season if we hadn't dumped everyone. 10-6 from 5-11 is a good season but not necessarily a trend. If we go 10-6 or 11-5 next season, then we're in an ascendancy.KeyFin likes this. -
Is it just me or are the one and dones starting to stack up under Flores...whether it's his staff (O'Shea, Graham, Gailey, Marshall, Flaherty, Guglielmo) or his players (Minkah, Rosen, Van Noy, J Howard, Breida).
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I think it’s also important to acknowledge that this was a complete rebuild and finding plug and play FA is a part of that strategy, even though they aren’t long term solutions.Irishman likes this. -