Him and Jake look similar, or is it just me?
[video=youtube;m47NqWiNzMw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m47NqWiNzMw[/video]
Could be the LT replacement if Jake leaves
Hi Teo
[video=youtube;2EhJdcnRBxo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EhJdcnRBxo[/video]
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Martin might prove a good enough LT to not have to throw a 1st rounder at a guy with the hopes of him becoming the blindside protector. It could prove to be overkill. Personally, I might rather draft Chris Long's brother, Kyle, with our second 2nd rounder and put him at RT.
..... but yes, Lewan looks eerily similar to Jake out there. If it were between Lewan & Jake, I'd rather draft a healthy Lewan at 1/5 the cost of Jake and use that cap saving on Wallace or a handful of solid contributors. He does look special though. Preferentially, I'd rather have an elite pass rusher and get a right tackle in round 2 if Jake refuses to offer us a worthwhile discount.UCF FINatic likes this. -
Great points all around. I think we wait until at least the second round before drafting any lineman. I would say we wouldn't draft one before the 3rd round based on how successful the Packers were with later round OLmen, but we did draft Martin 2nd last year...ToddPhin likes this.
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Hypothetically, while we're on Taylor Lewan, if we let Jake walk and use his savings to sign Mike Wallace (or Bowe) & Martellus Bennett, imagine the type of passing and running lanes we'd have with Lewan, Jonathan Cooper (trade up our 2nd rounder), and Pouncey. That would be absolutely insane.
Then sprinkle in Jordan Reed and WRs Quinton Patton & Stedman Bailey (or Swope). Offensive transformation complete. Re-sign Hartline. Cut Bess if needed. Re-sign Bush. Chunk yardage galore in both phases with the 2nd level blocking & playmaking ability.
[TABLE="width: 1000"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]WR[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Slot[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]LT[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]LG[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]RG[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]RT[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]TE[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Hback[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]WR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Mike Wallace
Matthews[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Stedman Bailey
(or Swope)
+
Hartline[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Taylor Lewan[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jon Cooper[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Pouncey[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jerry[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Martin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Martellus Bennett
Egnew[/TD]
[TD]Jordan Reed[/TD]
Clay
[TD="align: center"]Quinton Patton[/TD]
Hartline
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]RB[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Bush
Thomas
Miller
Thigpen[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
** perhaps you add in Dennis Johnson or an explosive back like Kenjon Barner.
... or nab Lattimore should he fall to the 4th round.... or at least a flier on Knile Davis.
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I don't think there is a possible way that we can get Cooper, Bailey, Reed, Lewman, and Patton if we trade up.
1. Lewan
High 2nd. Cooper
second 2nd gone because we traded it
3. Bailey-might not last past the 2nd
second 3rd gone
4. Swope (I'd rather have Bess who many can't guard in the slot than a rookie)
Barner, Lattimore, and Patton are gone by now.
Drafting two offensive lineman with the 1st and 2nd will have this fan base irate though they probably would come in and do a better job than Long and Incognito. I must say that offense would be something scary if they were able to pull it off.ToddPhin likes this. -
Bailey might last till the 4th since he's smallish and will probably be looked at as a slot guy, not a starter. Picking in the top 12 of the 4th might get him. He's an outstanding college player but might not be significantly better than a "jag" in the NFL to warrant higher than a 4th round pick. Ditto for Swope. However both offer more than Bess who is limited in ability and limits our playbook.
The biggest uncertainties would be Patton & Reed in the 3rd.... but depending how the draft fell it's possible it might only take a 3rd to move up for Cooper, leaving our second 2nd rounder for Patton. Then Reed in the 3rd and Bailey or Swope in the 4th. Much crazier scenarios have happened. -
Broyles was small(and had an injury), so was TJ Graham and TY Hilton and all of them went before the 3rd round in this/last year's draft. I'd say Tavon Austin is more of a slot receiver than Bailey though Bailey could do a lot of damage in the slot. I doubt Swope can get open like Bess can. Davone runs elite routes, just doesn't have the speed or athleticism like he did 08-11. Patton and Reed CAN last til' the 3rd round but will they last long enough for Miami to get one or both? And a 3rd doesn't make up for a high 2nd, especially Miami's if they are sitting in the 10-15 position.
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But is a slot a starter in today's NFL? I think yes, most certainly with the fascination of 11 personnel. It could also be argued that, if anything, the slot receiver position has become the most vital of the three spots, simply because the majority of oppositions don't have a nickel corner to match.ssmiami likes this.
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Hilton ran a 4.34...... and Graham is basically 6'0 and ran a 4.41. Broyles isn't small per se and has better length than Bailey.
Bailey looks like he's lucky to be 5'9 and not the size you want on the outside in the NFL, especially not when you don't run a 4.3.
....and Bess can't do the things with the ball in the air or in his hands on quite the same level Swope can.... and he doesn't offer the same target size or blocking ability.
Personally, if I'm looking to compliment my boundary guys I'd want a more dynamic slot receiver who can make plays and help stretch the field better than Bess, even at the expense of Davone's higher percentage of short route "openness". Swope in the slot does more to open the playbook, and his presence should create more space and opportunity for everyone else, where as Bess basically just helps himself and the QB while hindering others, especially running backs who could use his vacated space to catch open passes in for bigger YAC gains if Bess could actually stretch the field and pull coverage with him. Besides, if you can get Swope on a linebacker or safety they're gonna have their hands full. Furthermore, with Wallace, Patton, and Hartline on the team, prioritizing Bess's "openness" is a little overkill for a #4 receiver IMO. I'd rather add someone who is more well-rounded & dynamic..... and it's not like Swope is a liability in the getting open department. It's like saying you'd rather have Bess over a healthy Austin Collie.
Go to the 0:52 mark.
#28 playing catch up with Swope in the inside slot is Dee Milliner. He's not a true vertical threat but he has enough speed & craftiness to get behind the nation's #1 corner and stretch the middle of the field.... which Bess can't do.
[video=youtube;ykxRc-kSH74]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykxRc-kSH74[/video] -
You make a good point but I don't know if I agree entirely. The slot receiver is off the field in most 2 back & 2 TE formations, and it's arguable most teams would prefer a dynamic TE/Hback and his versatility over a smallish slot receiver considering the majority of opposition doesn't have a linebacker to match, and sometimes neither a safety nor nickel corner. Not to mention, IMO a good Hback allows you to adapt easier to whatever defensive personnel is on the field, where as there's no personnel advantage for the run game if the defense is in nickel and your slot receiver is on the field, made even worse if your opponent actually does have a solid nickel corner or safety who can cover. I'd think teams would want to strive for a greater degree of playing time balance between slot receiver-Hback to where it's hard to prioritize them higher in the draft, that is unless the team has a solid blocking TE who is threat in the pass game to where the slot's blocking deficiency is minimized.... or just a great run blocking oline.
However, if we're talking a dynamic impact player like Cruz, Harvin, Cobb, Kendall Wright, or perhaps Broyles whom you want on the field as much as his lungs & legs can handle and can be moved around w/o being a liability, then yes, I'd absolutely regard him as a "starter" and would prioritize him higher in the draft. However, the next tier down I wouldn't take till the 4th round, perhaps the 3rd. Look at last year's top slot prospects outside of Broyles. Chris Givens, Joe Adams, Travis Benjamin, Devon Wylie..... all 4th rounders. In 2011, 2 went in the 2nd half of the 3rd round (Vincent Brown, Jerrell Jernigan) and the rest were scattered from the 4th on. IDK, I just think through the first 3 rounds, teams are more inclined to address perimeter receivers than slot guys unless they're either set on the outside or the slot receiver looks truly special like Austin. I think it parallels tight ends compared to Hbacks in that you don't have to have a great Hback but it's hard to do without a good TE, so if you're lacking at the position, you're looking at addressing TE first.... just as if if you're lacking at WR you're likley looking at addressing the perimeter first with slot being more of a luxury. I like Bailey, but I wouldn't put him in Cobb's class, which to me puts him in the 3rd or 4th round depending how the draft plays out. Just my 2 cents at least my friend... -
You're not seeing 22 personnel much, however. Mainly in the short yardage, situational football. The dominant formation in the NFL today is 11 personnel, consisting of one back amd one tight end. This means there is a third receiver, a slot usually. Majority of NFL, nay -- nearly all, don't have one athletic, quality tight end or H-back with a blocking one, which is when a slot comes in.
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What? Bess "doesn't have the speed or athleticism like he did 08-11". Huh? From what I've seen Bess is faster in 2012, and he's still slow. Bess's major flaw is a massive lack of deep speed for a WR- he does have some athleticism and short area quickness, but watching him return a few punts will show quickly how limited that athleticism is as well. Relative to what one would expect from an NFL WR Bess had a serious deficiency of speed in 2008-11, which is why I find your statement to be a bit odd, jmo.
He's a gamer, he's a competitor, but Bess is problem #1 in terms of the offense lacking deep speed and being able to open up. Have him on the field with Hartline and defenses would be silly not to clamp down, load the box and dare us to beat them deep. Everyone can see this, from Mike Mayock to Jason Taylor to Tim Bowens- just to name a few, including Chad Henne and Jeff Ireland. It's self evident, and if Bess gets over 1,000 yards receiving this year- Hartline, too- it doesn't change anything in terms of their deficiencies in stretching the field and loosening up defenses.