Are you comparing Brees to Henne and Schottenheimer to Sparano for the basis of this discussion?

Ok, I'll give you if Henne turns around this season and puts up great numbers we could be looking at a potential Brees scenario. Maybe. But Sparano is no Schottenheimer.

But I'll answer the question posed in your thread. I thought it was a mistake to fire Schottenheimer, although Norv has had better success in the playoffs I believe but could be wrong. The Brees thing is pretty much a wash. Phillip Rivers is as talented as Brees, IMHO, just lacks the coaching that Brees has.

 

So Zod, are you saying we should keep this group intact here with Miami? If so, why? Have they not shown their true colors by now? Henne has improved some, but he hasnt taken the full step needed to be a genuine nfl starter for YEARS (and i've been one of the bigger Henne supporters). Sparano has made changes, giving the reigns of the offense to Daboll, but the issues still remain. Ireland, I think gets a lot of heat, but has a better track record than he's given credit for imo. But I don't see it working out.

What's your reasoning thinking the way it's being handeled right now as a "mistake" ?

 

I think is as typical with Dolphins fans, people are lashing out at anything and everything out of dissatisfaction with the teams performance.

I agree with you to a point. Ireland should be retained. He's much better than people give him credit for. Henne is going to get some consideration from a new coaching staff playing like he is.

I don't think there's any helping Sparano. He's not the parody people are making him out to be, a bungling incompetent who can't help but piss on his own shoes, but he's not the guy.

 

So who is Miami's Rivers in this scenario?

 

Thought the relationship between Smith and Schotty was bad but replacing Marty was a bad move but unless Smith was going to go then did Marty need to go? Didnt understand the move but wasnt part of the inner workings and if the organ is on diff pages and in-fighting then it could destry the team so it may have been teh best move they made. I thought Brees was the better qb at the time, but with his shoulder and having Rivers, understandable move. Smith was kept over Marty because Smith brought talent and can find talent. So Spanos looked lon term and decided he needed the GM more

 

I think Tony was put behind teh 8 ball by Ross flirting with Harbaugh. I like Tony but he starts with 2 strikes as a result and unless we started like gangbusters, the trust factor isnt there. Ireland has his misses, but has some real nice picks/pickups and can find talent.

Henne should be considered, but shouldnt preclude us from drafting a qb rd 1 and hopefully moving up for 1 of the big 3 if we need to

 

Huge difference between Smith and Ireland - Smith actually placed the appropriate amount of value on the QB position. A GM who can draft 2 great QBs, IMO is worth 10 who can hit on other positions but not figure out the QB position in 4 years.

Another thought about Schotty - while I think he was a very good regular season coach, since being canned in San Diego not one other team has even considered hiring him. Makes you wonder.

 

Brees had 2 very good years in San Diego just prior to New Orleans.

 

Henne might come close to the yardage totals but I'll be shocked if he gets anywhere near Brees TD/INT ratio from that year of 3.857. I hope he does though. And you're not the first person to point out the potential similar trajectories of Drew Brees and Chad Henne's careers... :lol:

http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...e-s-first-3-years-to-Drew-Brees-first-3-years

As I said in that thread though, and it's a big reason Smith is a far greater G.M. than Ireland...He did the prudent thing and drafted Phillip Rivers in case Brees didn't pan out.

 

And I think Ireland pulls the Smith and drafts a 1st rd qb this year. Or I think he should. Even if Henne pans out. AT worst you have 1 of teh 2 becomes the qb, at best you have a qb that brings back value in trade. Or you have a very viable backup and an elite qb

 

If we do poorly this year and have a high draft pick, I am definitely not opposed to drafting a QB high round 1 and sit him behind Henne during his first year, with whatever coach we have. It won't be Sparano, but I do think Ireland will stay, hence our very own SD scenario in the making.

 

I thought they made a mistake. Ultimately it's the right move -- all things being equal. You can't win without talent. But I preferred Marty to Smith in that scenario. I thought it was unfair that he lost his job -- after a 14-2 season -- basically because a defensive back intercepted Brady to essentially win the game, but decided to run, fumbled it away and gave the Patriots new life.

They were playing Martyball those years, but they were also putting it in the endzone and scoring a lot via the passing game. That's Martyball with Cam Cameron providing a lot of flavor.

I also thought it was a huge misstep to let Brees simply walk away for nothing the year before. That made me question Smith and probably influenced my opinion.

My opinion has been that Ireland is far more likely to survive. Ross goes to him, he has the owner's ear and likely has an ally in Carl Peterson. We've seen it here and in other cities before with the owner choosing to keep and/or promote the GM.

 

I can get behind you on the Brees to Henne comparison. Henne has played slightly better this year, and may go onto have a solid year.

Sparano to Schotty, not so much. Schottenheimer had a pretty solid resume up to that point and a great deal of success with more more than 1 NFL team in 2 very different eras of the game. Sparano had one very good season which I think in hindsight had much more to do with Pennington and the WildCat. I just don't think Sparano has the football IQ to be a successful NFL head coach in this league. We have 2 going on 3 losing and most recent seasons to judge from. Schotty had a great (regular) season before being terminated. It's apples to oranges, IMO.

 

I wasn't really that football aware at that age, but I can see the comparisons. The TD-INT ratio may not be as good. We might be looking at a 24-15 rather than 27-7, but that's still not terrible. Although Brees did start his third year starting with a TD-INT ratio of 3-2 (Henne's at 4-3) and didn't really turn it on until mid-year. Two second round QB's with workable flaws. I don't know if anyone predicted them to be greats but I'm sure with development they were assumed to be competent NFL starters.

There are more parallels with the QB's IMO than the coaches. Marty was already established from his days with the Chiefs and considered a good coach more so than Sparano.

I can't speak on the Smith issues. I really can't speak much about it either way considering.

 

I agree with this

 

I'll just say this about Jeff Ireland. He's put together a roster of talented players. He's not put together a talented team. His negligence with respect to the QB position, combined with the offensive line, tight end, and free safety, in my humble opinion, should cost him his job as well.

That said, I don't think Ross will lop Ireland - though I believe he should strongly consider it.

 

I don't know why people try to take the use of the wildcat away from sparano. At the very least he signed off on it which was a good move, at the most he helped develop it, which was an even better move. You can't use that to trivialize what he did that year.

 

Sparano deserves a fair share of credit for 2008. It was a very clever band-aid for a team that still had a lot of holes. But he has failed to fix those holes and now that the WildCat is no longer a threat we're left treading water and going nowhere. So sure, let's tip our hats to him for signing off on the WildCat and doing some decent things in 2008. But let's not let that earn him a pass for his ineptitude the past 3 years. This team is going nowhere fast with Sparano.

 

You're still trying to trivialize it. Its one thing to say you think there is more evidence against sparano being a bad coach vs being a good coach, its a whole other thing to pretend/trivialize the wildcat by saying lets tip our hats and such. Either way he still led the team to the playoffs and helped to create a nice little wrinkle in that game.

 

with my fingers.

 

The truth of the matter is I'm done thinking about a season that happened 3 years ago as it pertains to this team right now. It will always be a fond memory, and it was a great season considering what we've gone through the past decade. But Tony Sparano no longer deserves to be the head coach of this team, IMHO. If you agree, what's the point in arguing about how much credit I'm giving the man for a season that happened 3 years ago?

 

Tony is done. Imo he's an avg coach who could never move to the next level. I'm not going to just make up reasons to trash the guy though. Theres plenty of realreasons to do so already. I guess I only care because it's the idea of an emotional reading of history vs actual history argument for me.

 

Jeff Ireland puts together the roster, Tony Sparano puts together the team.

That's how I feel... I feel Ireland has brought together enough talent on this roster to be competitive, but it's clearly they are fundamentally lacking and not properly prepared. That's on coaching. Just IMO.

 

I'll certainly grant Sparano his share of the credit for the Wildcat, but frankly I have a hard time associating this coach, with the one who so brilliantly orchestrated our team's unlikely 2008 return to the Playoffs.
If you recall, that team responded to masterful halftime adjustments. That team prevailed week after week amid adversity, and that team overachieved with a roster of lesser achieved talents.
Granted, Pennington was magical, but players across the roster stepped up to make plays, and in stark contrast to our current weekly debacle, that team recieved well deserved reverence for being exceptionally prepared week in and week out, and exceedingly well coached from one opponent to the next.
That year, we were looking for TS to claim COTY honors.
Odd as it may seem, that prodigious coaching deft once attributed to Sparano, seemed to vanquish around the time Parcells left.

 

Good god man, please add that to the photoshop thread! :lol: :lol: :lol: