The debate is officially over ....

"FinFaninBuffalo wrote:

Still true.

Nobody is saying this. In fact, the point was that Tua could be great with a better supporting cast and coaching staff. Well.... that turned out to be true.

The shift wasn't from the Tua supporters, it was from the Herbert supporters (side note, it is ridiculous to have vocal supporters of another team's quarterback on this site). They claimed that the supporting cast WASN'T the issue during 2020 and 2021. They claimed Tua supporters were making EXCUSES (you even used that word again). Now that Tua is out playing Herbert, suddenly it IS the supporting cast that is the main issue. The claim is now that Tua is carried and Herbert is held back...... Very interesting shift indeed.

so you are now admitting that the cast around him made him great and he is not great without it?

side note, you are the on that keeps bringing up other QB's

For me, this debate has been over since last season.

"dolphin25 wrote:

so you are now admitting that the cast around him made him great and he is not great without it?

Not what I said at all ....

If you don't want to compare Tua to Herbert (something anti-Tua people were desperate to do for 2 years), maybe stay out of the thread created for that purpose?

"dolphin25 wrote:

what is the validity of your comment? The poster constantly goes on and on about Herbert. No one else is really saying much about him. Why continuously bring him up ? Seems like the poster is trying to convince himself that Tua is better.

He doesn't need to try.

If I want a pretty thrown ball that looks great on a highlight, I will take Herbert. If I want a qb to run an offense, I will take Tua.

"dolphin25 wrote:

My bad, if I had realized you created it I would not have wasted my time.

??? It shows right on list of threads who created it.....

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

EDITED

All of his replies in this thread have been "interesting". Seems like he is trying to hard to be contrarian.

"FinFaninBuffalo wrote:

All of his replies in this thread have been "interesting". Seems like he is trying to hard to be contrarian.

You should thank me. If not for my responses this thread would have died a long time ago. My apologies for responding and wasting everyones time.

"FinFaninBuffalo wrote:

All of his replies in this thread have been "interesting". Seems like he is trying to hard to be contrarian.

Must be tiring to be him

"dolphin25 wrote:

You should thank me. If not for my responses this thread would have died a long time ago. My apologies for responding and wasting everyones time.

Apology accepted. Waste it just a bit more by actually answering the original question with a simple yes or no answer. Did Miami draft the right guy? IMO, yes. Your opinion?

"FinFaninBuffalo wrote:

Apology accepted. Waste it just a bit more by actually answering the original question with a simple yes or no answer. Did Miami draft the right guy? IMO, yes. Your opinion?

DFD and FFB knock it off.

"Finatik wrote:

DFD and FFB knock it off.

?? not sure what you are referring to. I have been completely civil.

The main thing Tua has over Herbert is that he's an integral component of one of the best offenses in the league. Herbert is now in year 4 of being the same solidly above average, but not elite QB from a production standpoint. It doesn't seem like you could put a team around Herbert (realistically with salary cap etc.) that would perform as well as you can with Tua.

It's really a Philip Rivers situation all over again. Chargers will be lucky to ever sniff the SB with Herbert. At least with Tua we have a decent chance. Yeah, the debate is (mostly) over, pending future seasons of course.

Herbert is Tannehill 2.0
Statue in the pocket. Slow reads. Checkdown king.

With that being said, the debate is far from over or settled. Herbert is FAR better than Tannehill was early on and has tremendous upside. I wouldn't bet against him. If he plays for 15 years his career is really just getting started. On the flip side, the light turned on for Tanny in 2016 before the knee injury so maybe Herbert's ceiling has already been reached.

"Bumrush wrote:

Herbert is Tannehill 2.0
Statue in the pocket. Slow reads. Checkdown king.

With that being said, the debate is far from over or settled. Herbert is FAR better than Tannehill was early on and has tremendous upside. I wouldn't bet against him. If he plays for 15 years his career is really just getting started. On the flip side, the light turned on for Tanny in 2016 before the knee injury so maybe Herbert's ceiling has already been reached.

Guys like Herbert and Allen aren't going to get any better. What you see is what you get with them. They have peaked. They aren't suddenly going to learn how to read a defense and throw the ball with touch.

You can't rely on physical traits forever. Ask Cam Newton.

I've been trying to decide on a comp for Herbert. Maybe Jeff George? Herbert's not nearly as arrogant as George was, but (besides maybe Baker Mayfield) who is? George never got a coach who could take advantage of his bazooka and it remains to be seen if Herbert ever will.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

I've been trying to decide on a comp for Herbert. Maybe Jeff George? Herbert's not nearly as arrogant as George was, but (besides maybe Baker Mayfield) who is? George never got a coach who could take advantage of his bazooka and it remains to be seen if Herbert ever will.

Peak Jeff George

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

I've been trying to decide on a comp for Herbert. Maybe Jeff George? Herbert's not nearly as arrogant as George was, but (besides maybe Baker Mayfield) who is? George never got a coach who could take advantage of his bazooka and it remains to be seen if Herbert ever will.

Definitely not Jeff George. IMO, he was a gun slinger that never took the game seriously enough. Herbert is a big QB with a cannon arm that checks the ball down at a very high rate. IMO he is terribly underwhelming given his physical attributes.

"FinFaninBuffalo wrote:

Herbert has a very good supporting cast. Far far better than Tua had in his first two years. Not really sure what point you are trying to make.

Keenan Allen is 1st in receptions, 2nd in yards, 3rd in yards per game (behind Tyreek and Jefferson) and 5th in TD's yet people seem to think Herbert suddenly doesn't have any weapons anymore.

Maybe the debate isn't over:

"Springveldt wrote:

Keenan Allen is 1st in receptions, 2nd in yards, 3rd in yards per game (behind Tyreek and Jefferson) and 5th in TD's yet people seem to think Herbert suddenly doesn't have any weapons anymore.

Not to mention Ekeler's 43 touchdowns the last 2.5 years.

JuStIn HeRbErT dOeSn'T hAvE hElP!!

Yeah, any claims about Herbert not having a good surrounding cast are revisionist history. Prior to this season, a bunch of outlets were projecting Herbert would finally break out with the extra investment into his surrounding cast + new OC Moore. And yet Herbert puts up the same efficiency stats as in years 1-3. He's simply not an elite QB. Good, but no way elite. Except for the uncertainty of future years, we definitely made the right decision with Tua.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Not to mention Ekeler's 43 touchdowns the last 2.5 years.

This is my first year playing fantasy football and I quickly learned that Ekeler is one of the most valuable players in the league in terms of fantasy points. Pure stud that does a little bit of everything.

"KeyFin wrote:

This is my first year playing fantasy football and I quickly learned that Ekeler is one of the most valuable players in the league in terms of fantasy points. Pure stud that does a little bit of everything.

Chargers fans treat him and Keenan Allen like dirt on X. It's crazy how much they blame them and not Herbert.

This is such an incredibly ignorant thread. One of the worst I've seen in awhile.