The Deep Ball: Where Ryan Tannehill is Struggling Mightily
30 replies
These data are from PFF, for passes attempted at least 20 yards in the air downfield.
2013:
Name
Team
Att.
Comp
Drops
Yards
TDs
INTs
Att. %
Acc. %
YPA
Carson Palmer
ARZ
74
23
0
737
7
8
12.9
31.1
10.0
Matt Ryan
ATL
43
15
2
534
5
7
6.6
39.5
12.4
Joe Flacco
BLT
88
17
6
730
1
8
14.3
26.1
8.3
E.J. Manuel
BUF
41
12
2
360
5
2
13.4
34.1
8.8
Cam Newton
CAR
64
15
5
502
8
4
13.5
31.3
7.8
Jay Cutler
CHI
57
24
2
829
5
5
16.1
45.6
14.5
Josh McCown
CHI
23
10
0
330
5
0
10.3
43.5
14.3
Andy Dalton
CIN
86
31
7
1028
14
5
14.7
44.2
12.0
Brandon Weeden
CLV
33
11
2
355
2
3
12.4
39.4
10.8
Jason Campbell
CLV
34
9
1
304
3
2
10.7
29.4
8.9
Tony Romo
DAL
56
21
3
695
8
1
10.5
42.9
12.4
Peyton Manning
DEN
83
38
2
1299
12
5
12.6
48.2
15.7
Matthew Stafford
DET
77
23
6
728
8
7
12.1
37.7
9.5
Aaron Rodgers
GB
36
18
1
676
3
1
12.4
52.8
18.8
Case Keenum
HST
32
13
4
517
4
1
12.6
53.1
16.2
Matt Schaub
HST
32
10
3
268
2
3
8.9
40.6
8.4
Andrew Luck
IND
60
17
5
614
5
2
10.5
36.7
10.2
Chad Henne
JAX
38
9
3
262
2
3
7.6
31.6
6.9
Alex D. Smith
KC
41
13
6
420
4
0
8.1
46.3
10.2
Ryan Tannehill
MIA
64
16
5
560
3
6
10.9
32.8
8.8
Matt Cassel
MIN
38
17
1
491
4
3
15
47.4
12.9
Christian Ponder
MIN
31
12
1
380
3
3
13
41.9
12.3
Tom Brady
NE
66
20
6
694
4
4
10.5
39.4
10.5
Drew Brees
NO
77
29
2
1128
15
2
11.8
40.3
14.6
Eli Manning
NYG
70
21
3
725
6
7
12.7
34.3
10.4
Geno Smith
NYJ
60
26
2
830
4
7
13.5
46.7
13.8
Matthew McGloin
OAK
35
15
1
443
3
1
16.6
45.7
12.7
Terrelle Pryor
OAK
30
8
1
287
2
4
11
30
9.6
Nick Foles
PHI
55
25
0
803
14
1
17.4
45.5
14.6
Michael Vick
PHI
22
9
1
299
3
1
15.6
45.5
13.6
Ben Roethlisberger
PIT
76
24
3
730
7
7
13
35.5
9.6
Philip Rivers
SD
57
21
4
696
7
4
10.5
43.9
12.2
Russell Wilson
SEA
60
27
2
922
9
5
14.7
48.3
15.4
Colin Kaepernick
SF
57
21
5
683
6
2
13.7
45.6
12.0
Kellen Clemens
SL
25
9
3
269
1
0
10.3
48
10.8
Sam Bradford
SL
22
7
2
277
1
2
8.4
40.9
12.6
Mike Glennon
TB
45
18
3
673
7
1
10.8
46.7
15.0
Ryan Fitzpatrick
TEN
40
14
4
534
3
5
11.4
45
13.4
Jake Locker
TEN
30
7
0
199
3
3
16.4
23.3
6.6
Robert Griffin III
WAS
46
12
2
406
4
4
10.1
30.4
8.8
2014:
Name
Team
Att.
Comp
Drops
Yards
TDs
INTs
Att. %
Acc. %
YPA
Austin Davis
SL
12
7
1
219
1
1
12.8
66.7
18.3
Andrew Luck
IND
12
7
1
180
0
1
9.5
66.7
15.0
Matt Ryan
ATL
16
10
0
267
1
1
14.4
62.5
16.7
Kirk Cousins
WAS
12
6
0
230
2
1
14.8
50
19.2
Matthew Stafford
DET
15
7
0
252
2
2
13.2
46.7
16.8
Joe Flacco
BLT
11
3
2
142
1
1
9
45.5
12.9
Peyton Manning
DEN
11
5
0
190
1
0
9.9
45.5
17.3
Brian Hoyer
CLV
11
5
0
213
0
0
11.5
45.5
19.4
Chad Henne
JAX
9
3
1
134
1
0
11.5
44.4
14.9
Ben Roethlisberger
PIT
7
3
0
105
1
0
6.9
42.9
15.0
Drew Brees
NO
7
2
1
66
1
0
6
42.9
9.4
Josh McCown
TB
7
3
0
84
1
0
10.3
42.9
12.0
Colin Kaepernick
SF
12
5
0
131
1
2
12.8
41.7
10.9
Philip Rivers
SD
15
5
1
185
1
0
15.3
40
12.3
Nick Foles
PHI
26
9
1
250
4
1
21
38.5
9.6
Alex D. Smith
KC
8
3
0
73
0
2
7.8
37.5
9.1
Drew Stanton
ARZ
19
7
0
202
2
0
30.6
36.8
10.6
Ryan Tannehill
MIA
9
1
2
22
0
1
7.3
33.3
2.4
Aaron Rodgers
GB
9
3
0
136
1
0
8.8
33.3
15.1
Tony Romo
DAL
9
3
0
144
1
1
10.1
33.3
16.0
Jay Cutler
CHI
10
3
0
90
1
0
12
30
9.0
E.J. Manuel
BUF
10
3
0
75
0
0
11.5
30
7.5
Derek Carr
OAK
10
3
0
101
1
1
9.3
30
10.1
Geno Smith
NYJ
7
1
1
29
1
1
11.7
28.6
4.1
Jake Locker
TEN
19
4
1
153
1
1
18.8
26.3
8.1
Eli Manning
NYG
9
1
1
23
0
1
9
22.2
2.6
Andy Dalton
CIN
10
2
0
100
1
0
11.9
20
10.0
Tom Brady
NE
13
1
0
44
0
0
11.3
7.7
3.4
2011 (Matt Moore's most recent year as a starter):
Name
Team
Att.
Comp
Drops
Yards
TDs
INTs
Att. %
Acc. %
YPA
Aaron Rodgers
GB
61
32
5
1248
13
1
12.2
60.7
20.5
Tony Romo
DAL
61
32
1
1166
13
2
11.7
54.1
19.1
Josh Freeman
TB
36
15
4
486
3
2
6.5
52.8
13.5
Drew Brees
NO
71
37
0
1192
16
4
10.8
52.1
16.8
Michael Vick
PHI
58
24
6
769
3
4
13.7
51.7
13.3
Matthew Stafford
DET
73
31
5
1112
11
2
11
49.3
15.2
Sam Bradford
SL
41
16
4
496
4
2
11.5
48.8
12.1
Jay Cutler
CHI
37
14
4
425
2
2
11.8
48.6
11.5
Matt Moore
MIA
59
23
5
774
6
8
17
47.5
13.1
Eli Manning
NYG
109
43
8
1490
12
7
18.5
46.8
13.7
Andy Dalton
CIN
60
28
0
922
7
5
11.6
46.7
15.4
Alex D. Smith
SF
43
17
3
556
4
2
9.7
46.5
12.9
Matt Schaub
HST
37
14
2
499
5
0
12.7
43.2
13.5
Philip Rivers
SD
75
28
4
935
12
6
12.9
42.7
12.5
Carson Palmer
OAK
50
20
1
701
7
4
15.2
42
14.0
Tom Brady
NE
60
20
5
636
9
2
9.8
41.7
10.6
Colt McCoy
CLV
44
17
1
545
6
5
9.5
40.9
12.4
Cam Newton
CAR
89
33
3
1149
7
4
17.2
40.4
12.9
Tarvaris Jackson
SEA
66
22
4
737
3
4
14.7
39.4
11.2
Rex Grossman
WAS
61
20
3
571
4
10
13.3
37.7
9.4
Matt Cassel
KC
35
11
2
347
2
2
13
37.1
9.9
Christian Ponder
MIN
38
10
4
322
3
2
13.1
36.8
8.5
Matt Hasselbeck
TEN
69
21
4
686
4
4
13.3
36.2
9.9
Mark Sanchez
NYJ
57
17
3
443
7
6
10.5
35.1
7.8
Joe Flacco
BLT
79
22
5
716
8
3
14.6
34.2
9.1
Ben Roethlisberger
PIT
68
21
2
729
6
5
13.3
33.8
10.7
Tim Tebow
DEN
63
18
2
551
5
2
23.2
31.7
8.7
Ryan Fitzpatrick
BUF
58
17
1
536
3
4
10.2
31
9.2
Matt Ryan
ATL
60
15
3
497
4
2
10.6
30
8.3
John Skelton
ARZ
30
9
0
288
2
1
10.9
30
9.6
Blaine Gabbert
JAX
36
9
1
303
3
2
8.7
27.8
8.4
Roll TideNew MemberWould like to know if they show stats of receivers actually being open, and poor location by QB's- maybe that's accuracy? It's obvious that RT has serious problems with the long ball. That must be a "you got it or don't got it" type of skill.
So in other words, YPA for passes over 20 yards:
- 2011 Matt Moore: 13.1 YPA
- 2013 Ryan Tannehill: 8.8 YPA
- 2014 Ryan Tannehill: 2.4 YPA
Deerless DiceSupporterWhat about 2012?
MikeHonchoSupporterIt's his decision making that worries me. Being short or intermediate, his decision making (or lack thereof) is what is leaving yards on the field. Long ball is just the rare icing on the cake.
On thing Tannehill seems to excel at is the playaction/bootleg/roll out, outside the pocket stuff. How this coaching staff routinely ignores this is truly mind-boggling; like they don't know great scheming looks to maximize the strengths while at the same time masking the weaknesses of personnel. Not a fan of Philbin's cookie-cutter approach to personnel.
OT: How Mike Glennon isn't already starting for Tampa, is beyond me.
Headcoach material wouldn’t want to work somewhere they’re not trusted with actual football decisions.
"lmeister3 wrote:
It's his decision making that worries me. Being short or intermediate, his decision making (or lack thereof) is what is leaving yards on the field. Long ball is just the rare icing on the cake.
On thing Tannehill seems to excel at is the playaction/bootleg/roll out, outside the pocket stuff. How this coaching staff routinely ignores this is truly mind-boggling; like they don't know great scheming looks to maximize the strengths while at the same time masking the weaknesses of personnel. Not a fan of Philbin's cookie-cutter approach to personnel.
OT: How Mike Glennon isn't already starting for Tampa, is beyond me.
They ignore it because it cuts the field in half. You think Ryan Tannehill is easy to defend now? Wait till you let the defense cover only half the field against him.
MikeHonchoSupporter"Dolphans Unite! wrote:
They ignore it because it cuts the field in half. You think Ryan Tannehill is easy to defend now? Wait till you let the defense cover only half the field against him.
I believe it benefits him precisely because he only has half the field to process (there are still levels of depth to work with even with half the field). It enables him to use his athleticism and since he is already moving, he is less hesitant to take off and pick up yardage on his own.
Headcoach material wouldn’t want to work somewhere they’re not trusted with actual football decisions.
"lmeister3 wrote:
I believe it benefits him precisely because he only has half the field to process (there are still levels of depth to work with even with half the field). It enables him to use his athleticism and since he is already moving, he is less hesitant to take off and pick up yardage on his own.
That can work some of the time, but it can hardly be a staple of the offense. About the time that gets predictable, you'll have safeties and linebackers flowing to the side he's moving to, and the defense will be compressed into that half of the field. Like I said, you think he's easy to defend now?
resnorForum VeteranIsn't that the concept that has Wilson looking like the greatest ever right now?
djphinfanSupporter"Dolphans Unite! wrote:
That can work some of the time, but it can hardly be a staple of the offense. About the time that gets predictable, you'll have safeties and linebackers flowing to the side he's moving to, and the defense will be compressed into that half of the field. Like I said, you think he's easy to defend now?
I believe there are derivative affects your not taking into account that can affect future plays outcome..
It's about attacking a defense from all angles, setting them up for misdirection, containing a rush, and most Importantly, running a safe effective play that has options and that suits your Qbs strength.
MikeHonchoSupporter"Dolphans Unite! wrote:
That can work some of the time, but it can hardly be a staple of the offense. About the time that gets predictable, you'll have safeties and linebackers flowing to the side he's moving to, and the defense will be compressed into that half of the field. Like I said, you think he's easy to defend now?
He is, but arguably because our run game hasn't been spectacular. And not just that, but he's rarely under center just handing the ball off. It's always a telegraphed pass from the shotgun. Gotta set up the play-action somehow.
Headcoach material wouldn’t want to work somewhere they’re not trusted with actual football decisions.
djphinfanSupporter"resnor wrote:
Isn't that the concept that has Wilson looking like the greatest ever right now?
yes..
He's smart enough and cool enough to give the play multiple outcomes, if the design is correct, wilson will have the option to go deep on the rollout, cut it short on the check, or run it if the grass is there..
djphinfanSupporterAlso you have to take into account you have a skillset that can run and throw equally effective from both sides..so really they can't key to one side..i would say four times a game should be the norm.
KeyFinForum Veteran"Fin-Omenal wrote:
What's so wrong with this thread that you feel like bashing OP non directly? It is informative and he provided stats? What's the problem?
It doesn't support Tannehill, so they have to flame him over and over until everyone forgets the original subject. Surely you've noticed the pattern by now....
Winning football games at any level comes down to winning in the trenches.
SceetoForum VeteranI think most people here are well aware of the stats, but thanks for posting. Maybe it will help drive the point home for some. It's just so obvious from just watching the games.
"Sceeto wrote:
I think we are all well aware of the stats, but thanks for posting. Maybe it will help drive the point home for some. It's just so obvious from just watching the games.
Right, but what might not be so obvious is how that compares to the other QBs in the league. We don't have the ability to make precise comparisons among QBs with regard to variables like these by watching games alone.
CitizenSnipsNew MemberKind of silly when there's several HOF qbs not doing much better (Brady, Bree's, Eli)
SceetoForum Veteran"Dolphans Unite! wrote:
Right, but what might not be so obvious is how that compares to the other QBs in the league. We don't have the ability to make precise comparisons among QBs with regard to variables like these by watching games alone.
I mentioned I don't have a problem with them. Personally, I see it every week. I see other QBs make throws that Tanne never makes. It really annoys me. Every week!! Some always say what a low percentage throw those long balls are. but yet, I see other QBs making them EVERY week.
"CitizenSnips wrote:
Kind of silly when there's several HOF qbs not doing much better (Brady, Bree's, Eli)
Even good QBs will have occasional slumps.
Tannehill is always in a slump. Tannehill has never been good. Not in college, not in the NFL.
Deerless DiceSupporterStill waiting for 2012.
CitizenSnipsNew Member"normaldude wrote:
Even good QBs will have occasional slumps.
Tannehill is always in a slump. Tannehill has never been good. Not in college, not in the NFL.
Brady's deep ball, with the exception of the few years with moss, has always been suspect. Somehow he gets it done anyway.
Griese's GlassesNew Member"normaldude wrote:
Even good QBs will have occasional slumps.
Tannehill is always in a slump. Tannehill has never been good. Not in college, not in the NFL.
Simply not true.
10/07/2012 W vs. CIN 17-13: 17/26 (65.4%) and 223yds, 0 TD, 0 INT. 92.3 QBR.
10/14/2012 W vs. STL 17-14: 21/29 (72.4%) and 185yds, 2 TDs, 0 INTs. 112 QBR.
11/25/2012 W vs. SEA 24-21: 18/26 (69.2%) and 253yds, 1 TD, 1 INT. 97.1 QBR.
12/16/2012 W vs. JAX 24-3: 22/28 (78.6%) and 220yds, 2 TD, 0 INT. 123.2 QBR.
09/15/2013 W vs. IND 24-20: 23/34 (67.6%) and 319yds, 1 TD, 0 INT. 107.4 QBR.
09/22/2013 W vs. ATL 27-23: 24/35 (68.6%) and 236yds, 2 TD, 1 INT. 94.5 QBR.
10/31/2013 W vs. CIN 22-20: 20/28 (71.4%) and 208yds, 0 TD, 0 INT. 92.6 QBR.
12/01/2013 W vs. NYJ 23-3: 28/43 (65.1%) and 331yds, 2 TD, 1 INT. 94.2 QBR.
12/08/2013 W vs. PIT 34-28: 20/33 (60.6%) and 200yds, 3 TD, 1 INT. 95.5 QBR.
12/15/2013 W vs. NE 24-20: 25/37 (67.6%) and 312yds, 3 TD, 0 INT. 120.6 QBR.
Ryan has had some good games so far, so he can do it. The problem is consistency both on his part and the rest of the offense.
"Griese's Glasses wrote:
Ryan has had some good games so far
Henne & Tannehill have had some good games.
Henne & Tannehill have never had a good season.
"Griese's Glasses wrote:
Simply not true.
10/07/2012 W vs. CIN 17-13: 17/26 (65.4%) and 223yds, 0 TD, 0 INT. 92.3 QBR.
10/14/2012 W vs. STL 17-14: 21/29 (72.4%) and 185yds, 2 TDs, 0 INTs. 112 QBR.
11/25/2012 W vs. SEA 24-21: 18/26 (69.2%) and 253yds, 1 TD, 1 INT. 97.1 QBR.
12/16/2012 W vs. JAX 24-3: 22/28 (78.6%) and 220yds, 2 TD, 0 INT. 123.2 QBR.
09/15/2013 W vs. IND 24-20: 23/34 (67.6%) and 319yds, 1 TD, 0 INT. 107.4 QBR.
09/22/2013 W vs. ATL 27-23: 24/35 (68.6%) and 236yds, 2 TD, 1 INT. 94.5 QBR.
10/31/2013 W vs. CIN 22-20: 20/28 (71.4%) and 208yds, 0 TD, 0 INT. 92.6 QBR.
12/01/2013 W vs. NYJ 23-3: 28/43 (65.1%) and 331yds, 2 TD, 1 INT. 94.2 QBR.
12/08/2013 W vs. PIT 34-28: 20/33 (60.6%) and 200yds, 3 TD, 1 INT. 95.5 QBR.
12/15/2013 W vs. NE 24-20: 25/37 (67.6%) and 312yds, 3 TD, 0 INT. 120.6 QBR.Ryan has had some good games so far, so he can do it. The problem is consistency both on his part and the rest of the offense.
When you balance those games with his other performances, however, you come up with someone who's been no better than average throughout his career, and is actually playing fairly well below average during his last five games (going back to last year). He had a stretch of seven games prior to that in which he played very well and appeared to have turned the corner, but since then he's essentially fallen off the table, to the point where now he's playing in a way that wouldn't give any team much chance of winning.
Griese's GlassesNew Member"normaldude wrote:
Henne & Tannehill have had some good games.
Henne & Tannehill have never had a good season.
That's completely different from what you said you earlier. I think what Ryan accomplished last year, despite the OL, the coaching, the scandal, and the last two games...it was quite promising.
This year is what concerns me now; so far Lazor has me wishing for Sherman back, the receivers are dropping everything and Ryan is making some bonehead moves when the pocket collapses. Then you have ST jumping the deep end and the blocking upfront still isn't any good...the sheer volume of problems with this team is what is so disheartening because realistically you can at best only fix 1 or 2 areas with band-aid fixes and adjustments during the season and even that is doubtful considering the present coaching staff.