Well, I've often said the AFCE in 2010 reminds me of the NFCE in the 80's, but Sparano reminds me very much of Chuck Knox whose nickname was "Ground Chuck".
Rotoworld imo has made a correct assessment as has Sparano, we run the ball, we are good at running the ball, we should run the ball more if Ronnie is 100%.
The one place were Sparano and Knox do not compare is Knox preferred Veterans and always had great Special Teams units.
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The issue has been run blocking. Coincidence that John Jerry comes back right when this comes out? :)
Frumundah Finnatic, unifiedtheory, DolfanJake and 2 others like this. -
Well, eh, no imo.
The Jets have one of the top run defenses and the Pats had a huge lead, and it typically takes Sparano's Oline 4 or 5 games to shake themselves out.
Add in one viable Te and small wonder Sparano has not been pounding the ball as he normally does. I think if Shuler or Mastrud do not prove they can do the job Deon Anderson receives a phone call.
2 Fb's is odd, but how long can they play shuffle the TE? -
bingo :up:
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you're both right. everything you say is so but the difference between mcquistan and jerry is there toojetssuck likes this.
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Correct me if I'm offbase, but did we run the ball all that effectively with JJ in the lineup?
If so..when? Neither the Bills nor Vikes game featured a very effective rushing attack, outside of Ronnie B's one long run they were kept in check both games.
I think losing Haynos is more of a blow than people acknowledge.Pandarilla likes this. -
Maybe this says more about Henne than our rookie guard? -
vs buffalo
ricky 18 runs for 62 yds 3.4 avg
ronnie 13 runs for 65 yds 5.0 avg
polite 2 runs for 6 yds 3.0 avg
polite and ronnie did well, ricky didnt really seem to run well till monday night
vs minnesota
ricky 10 for 30 yds 3.0 avg
ronnie 13 for 80 yds 6.2 avg
polite 4 for 10 yds 2.5 avg -
Sure, make one 30 yd run, then 12 3 yd runs, and there will be a 5 ypc avg, but in fact the running game is going nowhere fast.
As Football Outsider's basics states, a Rb who has occasional long runs is not as effective as Rb who has a solid per carry avg without having long runs.
Stat monkey strikes again!!! -
I agree, the run blocking has been poor since Jerry went out, but also, Long has been hurt (although he said nothing and played through it).Anonymous likes this.
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ok guys. he's onto us. must kill padre
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It is not the feast or famine that is the problem it is when a Running Back is not feasting, are they still averaging over 4 ypc?
Imho long runs should be discarded as an important stat unless they lead to scores, otherwise do not bother with the Stat as it does not highlight how well, or poorly the running game is functioning. -
His little monkey paws are hovering over the word "SABR" aren't they?
AREN'T THEY!!!!!!!
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Not really the running game was not effective against the Bills or Vikes, JJ is not some road grading Olinemen that we have missed, he was merely one part of a raw G-C combination with Berger.
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If we did take Ronnie's 51 yard run out of the equation, you get an average 3.76 yard per carry in those two games. That isn't lighting the world on fire, but it isn't **** either. Especially when you well know from "the source" that Ronnie has had a tweaked hamstring going on what 2 weeks now? You even mentioned it yourself the other day when discussing Ronnie.
If we're going to have a discussion about productivity, lets have one where it is all on the table. That might be better no?
If we take that one carry away from Ronnie's stat total he's averaging 3.72 yards per carry over all.Stitches, alen1, Anonymous and 1 other person like this. -
I love these type of offenses. I believe you run to open the pass not pass to open the run. Kill clock and let your defense rest.
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Absolutely, though we all should keep in mind Ronnie B is a fragile 235 pd Rb, he simply cannot withstand the pounding of down after down carries.
3.72 is not very good Conu, especially with the Bills and Pats on the schedule.
A part of that is Berger is not doing very well, neither were McQuistan or Jerry, Ronnie B going inside saw contact at the LoS and then falling forward far to often.
I also think the running game is badly missing a Te who is a pure blocker, hopefully Shuler comes into GB in that role and does well at it.miamiron likes this. -
You mean other than telling its effective enough to produce long runs. Creating long runs is much more than a back, and for everything else to work well enough to allow backs to get carries like that the unit must be operating at some decent level of efficiency or there would be more defenders ready to stop such gains.
The ability to break long gains is just as much a measure of effectiveness as is a long pass in the passing game. That has been a request on this board and even in the Dolphins organization itself to create more chunk yardage plays through the air. Are you suggesting that all of those people are misguided in their views that long plays are a measure of successful passing/running? I'm just asking. The very fact that these plays happen is an indication of the efficiency of the ground game.
So big plays are a bad thing now? That seems to be what you're saying.Bpk likes this. -
And the hammy? At least 2 weeks with that.
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Well goodness then make Dexter McCluster a feature back and you will have your occasional long run, along with repeated stuffs at the LoS.
Cannot build an offense off of that can you? How many 3 and outs will that generate?
No, that is what you are projecting.Bpk likes this. -
Wait, you mean it isn't normal business to chop out "long" runs when calculating YPC? I mean, what is "long" anyway? 10? 15? 20 yards?
I mean if Chris Johnson was on this team I know I would be complaining because he's just breaking off too many long runs. I hate it when my running back does that. -
The hammy happened during the Jets game, think it will be healed by now?
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CJ has been *gasp* getting stuffed this season, to bad the titans do not have a traditional running back who can always gain positive yardage to keep drives going.
Or is it a good idea to put the ball into Vince Young's hands and relegate the running game? -
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I'll take Barry Sanders over, say, a guy like Julius Jones or Tyrone Wheatley every day of the week.
All the great ones have been capable of housing it more often than not. To throw those long runs out when looking at their YPC is just silly.
Likewise, great runners occasionally get stuffed. But that's why you look at the entire set of numbers. Seems counterintuitive to try to discout long runs, or the impact that they make on the game. -
****, I am not going to spend 20 to 25 minutes looking up Sun Sentinnel articles from 2009 to quote from..so Nolo Contendre doelbobmiamiron likes this.
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This is a truism that I am relying upon, not that I agree with everything FO has to say, especially on ST, however in this one they are correct.
The running game does more than score points, it eats clock, controls tempo, rests the defense, a highlight reel run is great, that is not what (or all) Ground Sparano is meant to accomplish.
And it takes the pressure off of the young Qb as well.Bpk and Killerphins like this. -
I'm projecting?
You're saying they serve no function and should be discarded. How many good things do you discard?
So because I say long runs are actually an means to show how effective the ground game actually is, as if we didn't have them everyone would complain about how mediocre our running game is as we don't have any long runs. You go to Dexter McCluster. That makes sense. Easy to see that connection.
You do realize the more moving parts you have for something the higher level of efficiency you need to even have them operate in a cooperative manner. Otherwise you'd see the issue very quickly; a short run. The more efficient these moving parts interact the more the likelihood of a longer run big play etc. Long runs are very much a means to evaluate the efficiency of a running game ans saying they're not is begging the question. Your excluding things that don't fit with your premise regardless of the fact that the very dynamics of a long run are filled with high levels of efficiency from multiple sources. -
That is what Sparano has tried to do so far NJ, as GRT8 said he got away from team identity in so doing, and for numerous reasons when Henne throws over 30 passes we are 3-7.
1-4 when he throws for 300 yds.
When they rush more than 25 times (I've forgotten the stat) he has a huge winning percentage. -
Are you using stats to support your position here?
So, now you're a stat monkey by your own definition?
The 25+ rush stat will likely apply to most teams in the NFL. Inherent in that stat is the notion that a team with a lead will likely will run the ball more often than they throw it; leading to more carries anyway. Teams that are behind are likely not to run the ball very often making it harder to get to 15 carries. -
that would be "yes".
As a barometer of how well the running game is functioning certainly, otherwise you wind up with the Ted Ginn Stat line on returns:
24.7
Reality was, 22.1 game in and game out.
Dex will break some long plays, no question about it, if you needed to drive 60 yds and eat the clock, is he your guy?
He could easily have a stat line prior to such a drive of:
10 carries 120 yds
No, a running play may produce a long run, more than likely it will not, however when the back, as Football Outsiders points out, gains positive yards play after play and moves the chains and controls the game, that is the goal of an effective running attack.
That is where the Stat Monkey falls out of the tree, per carry avg means very little when it is bolstered by mostly long runs. -
i hear what padre is saying. its not as crazy as it sounds. i always thought barry sanders was a bit overrated due to the fact he would have far too many rushes that resulted in zero or negative yardage. that alwasy killed them in the playoffs putting their offense into 3rd and longs. i would much rather have a RB like Earl Campbell or Eric Dickerson than a Barry Sanders though from an excitemnt point of view barry was second to noneBpk likes this.
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Nope, a stat monkey looks at just the stats not the results, for example Stat Monkey would look at the numbers after the second Jets game last season and say we were blown out.
Now overall stats, such as "so and so is 1-5 in games under 40 degrees" have utility, but are not reliabily predictive, just as I'm more than willing to concede that the Trend, "Dolphins rush for 110 yds under Sparano they are 6-2" is NOT predictive, only a Trend a sort of "do this and the Dolphins SHOULD win, not WILL win".
If say 70 of those 110 yds came from two long runs, and not 25 carries that consistently gained 5 yds, then the above stat is useless in trying to find a trend while watching the game.
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