and im glad we have this forum for me to ask. MY american history teacher in HS....mr long. said something that i wont forget..and obviously havent yet....ill ask here....
he said "the vietnamese beat us in vietnam by using our own invented type of war fare.....george washington helped defeat the brits by using guerilla war-fare.....not line up...fire...and take your chances...but hide in the woods, in trees, behind cliffs and sneak attack....."
he said Vietnamese used our own invented warfare...to defeat us in vietnam......is that true? did washington invent guerilla warfare? and did the vietnamese use it against us? i always wondered....
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i dunno who invented it but ya the Vietnamese used it....especially cuz that country is full of jungles and ****...they would hide in the trees, etc. killed a LOT of our men...
FinSane likes this. -
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I would think the reason behind it being used in vietnam was more of it fit better with the surrounding jungle, and the numbers the vietnamese had.charlestonphan, FinSane and SICK like this. -
The Brits were some tough cookies and had kicked *** all over the world, and for awhile, they did it to us too. We had some amazing determination sprinkled with some luck that let us colonialists came out on top. The Brits weren't done with us either, they interferred constantly through to just before WWI. We were in a Battleship building contest and were considering war with each other when the Kaiser jumped all over Europe and became the bigger menace.
The colonialists learned these things from the Indians as had the French, who were very good too at this too. The Indians were the teachers, they had been fighting each other for thousands of years like this. To them, the entire design was to come home with all your warriors, they were needed. They became adept at ambush and sneak attack. Come home and fight again, tough to do when the killing was hand to hand.. bravery was honored above all else.
The Vietcong had already driven the French out by force before we arrived so they had an enormous fieldcraft advantage. They had been fighting each other in those jungles and mountainsides for a millenia using the same hit and run tactics as our forefathers used. Eventually, they denied us the country side, drove us into the cities, then pushed us into the sea. I was serving then in the Sub Service, they were dark days for us all in uniform.
An armed determined militia is tough to beat if they control the countryside.Fin-Omenal, dolphinfn3454, dolphindebby and 13 others like this. -
guerrilla warfare is probably the oldest form of warfare there is, its basically just hiding until your enemy is in position for you to attack them , doesn't take any sort of complex formations or maneuvers and is similar to how we hunted in our earliest days.
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I remember watching as a kid a movie about the revolutionary war, where the formalities of war was abandoned, with the colonists learning it from the indians. I thought I saw or read something about the Canadians too, or maybe indians from what is no canada. I forget. -
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i believe they think the jews used guerrilla warfare in some their very early wars. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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I can't argue with a guy who fought along side the US troops over there.
I don't understand why everyone believes the We lost that war (funny I say we, as my parents are from Vietnam, but I'm an American through and through, but still funny). The US decided to pull out. They did not lose that war.gafinfan, Themole, padre31 and 1 other person like this. -
I'd disagree with your teachers notion SickFF, the Vietnamese used Communistic Tactics of insurgency and cadre and rarely engaged in set piece battle outside of Tet or Diem Bein Phu where the French entrenched against a massive Vietnamese force in a sort Yorktown for the French.
Now they did hijack the use of a "People's Army" but mainly the fighting was not large army v large army, they broke things down to small unit tactics for the most part.Boik14, SICK and unluckyluciano like this. -
thanks for the informative answers everyone.....this has bothered me sense i was 15 haha....glad this forum was created so i can get closure haha
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They cut the funding off while the People's Socialist Democratic Republic of North Vietnam was receiving massive amounts of military aid from the Soviet Union and to a lesser extent the ChiComs.
The Chinese actually invaded Vietnam in 1979 as a sort of probe the two countries are not historical allies in any meaningful sense of the term. -
We had better soldiers, there is no question, better trained, more advanced etc but ultimately China's support of Vietnam played a heavy role in how the war played out.FinSane likes this. -
Wow, I just have to chime in here cause I been there and done that. We lost in Nam because we had no plan to win. LBJ thought he was a better General than his Generals. I controled guys going into the North on bombing runs and we were NEVER allowed to deviate from the assigned target even when it was no longer there or viable. Every flight was approved and cleared by LBJ and thats the Gods honest truth! There was no such thing as a target of opportunity. While I respect the North and VC solder as a fighter he never won a major battle against the American solder! What they did do was win the hearts and minds of the American public with alot of help from LBJ and his crew. In point of fact after the fall of Hue the VC as a fighting force was dead. To those of you who think that Platoon was the way the American solder truly acted was surely not the case during my time. A more realistic movie IMHO was When We Were Solder and Young. Alot of future greats came out of that war and made damn sure the next one we fought was done right by the grunts who had to fight it. May god bless them all.
mi2cents, dolphinfn3454, charlestonphan and 10 others like this. -
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According to everything I've read, the Tet Offensive was largely futile in regards to casualties, and was quite devastating to Communist forces, which allowed the US, where public sentiment for the war was very low, to pull out. But you would 't know that because of sensational imagery that was displayed over here. See, media had an agenda back then too :D I keed I keed. -
Sick your history teacher was flat out wrong(from my research and studies). US troops didn't lose a single battle in Vietnam. We simply didn't convert the entire nation to a democracy and thus, its considered a loss by many. but flying under the radar of china and the ussr prevented an onslaught nuclear..or more aggressive style of attack that could have easily terminated north vietnam. but presidents of that era(kennedy, lbj, nixon) didnt want to gamble on a WW3, so they played it and fought it under the radar.
a much better example of someone using George Washingtons brilliant (stick and move) tactics would be Mao Tse Tsung and the Red Army, not North Vietnam.
the term mobile army, is more important than guerilla warfare here...when discussing Washington's brilliance.Section126, jdang307, gafinfan and 1 other person like this. -
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DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box
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I found this on another forum, one that the Vets might want to take a look at, about the truths/untruths about Vietnam.
Some facts about Vietnam
http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108151
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As has been stated, history is littered with smaller forces using "un-conventional" tactics against larger organized forces.
What G. Washington figured out in the North and what Francis Marion (The Swamp Fox) figured out in the South was that knowing the land; knowing your strengths, and equally important is knowing your enemies weaknesses goes all the way back to the beginning of time (read Sun Tzu's Art of War) as well. As was mentioned, from what the Jews did to attempt a revolt against the Roman Armies oppression; to modern day Irag/Afghanistan - the unconventional becomes the conventional for the force that would be obliterated in a "traditional" military "who's hang-down is bigger" type affair.
Being out numbered makes that style a pre-requisite and using the terrain to your advantage is and always will be a part of that. From trees, to holes in the ground with tunnel systems, to caves, etc....
And Yes, America has never been successful when DC-based POLITICIANS coordinate/overrule our battlefield strategy.gafinfan likes this. -