We have seen the VJ and Burke defenses. Gase needs to open his scope of thinking. Look at LA with Phillips, taking the thinking away from a young HC. Look at Jim Schwartz doing the same for Pederson. These are established DC's. Enough of these ex coaches from Cincy. Go get me Rex

 

That defense is still good. How can they be the Miami Dolphins. I think they are a qb away and Eli Manning is on line 1 for Elway

 

There d didn't look good last week......:confused2: They will get one of the first couple picks and have there qb of the future. Would be interesting though to see a second manning finish in Denver.

 

That would feel pretty poetic, wouldn't it? And if that happens, you almost get two Mannings for the price of one. Because you know Peyton is still close to the organization and would want to be in there coaching up his little brother.

 

I'll start with this, I don't think Adam Gase would give Matt Burke the axe. That just doesn't seem like an Adam Gase thing to do. But, if he does or Burke gets a HC gig (hey, look at Vance Joseph) and is gone somehow, I do wonder if he wouldn't consider Paul Guenther.

Miami's defense shares a lot of formations with Over defense you see from the Mike Zimmer tree. Zimmer is running it right now in Minnesota and they're having a great year. 2nd in points allowed, 2nd in total defense, 2nd against the run and I believe they're 10th against the pass. They've also got the best 3rd down defense in the entire NFL.

Paul Guenther was the LBs coach for the Cincinnati Bengals when Mike Zimmer was the Bengals DC there - yes, Kevin Coyle was on that staff. When the Vikings hired Zimmer, Guenther was promoted to DC and has been running the same scheme in Cincinnati with pretty similar results. All this while losing his D-line coach and two DBs coaches over the years.

If Mike Brown decides to disband the Bengals coaching staff after this season and Guenther doesn't get tabbed for the promotion, I think that'd be a target Adam Gase should be interested if Burke is gone. I think the Bengals and Vikings run a lot of similar looks, but they do a MUCH better job of disguising coverages and blitzes than Miami does now. It doesn't hurt that the Vikings and Bengals both have better personnel at LB, and I'd argue at DE as well.

I don't think the personnel group that Miami's going to be carrying-over into 2018 really lends itself to a switch to a 3-4, not that it matters a whole lot because you're in sub-packages more than 66% of the time in today's NFL, but I think Miami's only a few pieces away from having similar personnel to Minnesota and Cincinnati. In essence, I think Miami could emulate the Bengals or Vikings and have it mostly done in one offseason, where as a switch to a Wade Phillips' style defense may take more than a year.

I know most fans are gun shy about first-time coordinators, but I'd also keep an eye on Adam Zimmer, Mike Zimmer's son, who is currently the Vikings LBs coach. He'd be another guy I'd have my eye on, again, presuming that Gase does get rid of or loses Matt Burke this offseason.

 

everyone on this list is the exact reasons Miami has issues and it will be more of the same

we hire so many ex-Cincy coaches, I wouldn't be shocked if we picked up Marvin Lewis as DC after he gets fired

 

You sound like hitman8. At least bring something to the discussion.

 

learn to read . I have. bring some experienced DC/OC's in, maybe ones thatched prior HC experience. This team lacks talent, and you have coaches trying to teach them w/o experience and credibility

 

You realize Marvin Lewis, who you mentioned, fits exactly what you suggested above, right?

 

“In love” and “upset”? This is the most absurd straw man hypothetical I’ve read today (and I read the main boards on both fan websites).

 

I said I wouldn't be shocked because we take ex cincy coaches all the time.

 

You do realize that Adam Gase knew Vance Joseph from BEFORE Vance's time in Cincinnati, right? And you realize that Matt Burke has literally more experience than anyone in the NFL other than Jim Schwartz in the wide-9 defense, right? It's purely coincidence that they both got hired in Cincinnati.

Look at Marvin Lewis's past staffs - he's got former assistants all over the league. Say what you will about his in-game management skills or his ability to keep his players in control, but the man's assembled some pretty damn good coaching staffs during his tenure in Cincinnati.

 

Look I think you are insinuating that Lewis could be a decent DC for us. I would semi-agree with you. I'm not sure of his contract situation ad if he would take a step down. I am in favor of a guy that has HC experience that got his job from his defensive or offensive prowess

 

But you said you were tired of hiring coaches from Cincinnati, so which is it? Marvin Lewis's contract is up at season's end.

I'm more in favor of Guenther, as Marvin Lewis hasn't called an actual defense during his entire tenure as the Bengals Head Coach. Tough to get back in saddle being away from play-in, play-out controls IMO.

 

I am sick of the coordinators from Cincy. Do I think Lewis can provide more than Guenther, Joseph or Burke, yes. However, I am in favor of a defensive guy like Rex Ryan.

 

1) Why do you think Lewis provides more than Guenther, Joseph or Burke considering he hasn't called a defense in over a decade?

2) You want Rex Ryan, despite Adam Gase's offense carving that offense twice last year, essentially using 3 or 4 run plays only? Why?

 

1. experience. I have indicated that I would prefer a DC with HC experience
2. Are you really not going to look at someone's resume as a DC, esp back in Baltimore?

What about Del Rio? Think he might get fired? Pagano?

 

Re: Marvin Lewis - what about his experience as a head coach makes him a better candidate as a defensive coordinator than the guy he literally trusts to run his defense?

Re: Rex Ryan, I'm looking at his defenses with the Jets and Bills too. Those were a LONG way off from those Ravens teams.

 

ok you have totally convinced me to keep Burke/Vance Joseph. Let's do more of the same!!!

 

Merely asking your thoughts, which apparently you aren't going to put forth...

If you're going to put up examples, explain why. Don't punk out.

 

there was no way Rex's defense was like Baltimore. But his dna is defense. And there were Jets and Bills teams that gave the Pats fits in the past years. look at the fundamental flaw of the Phins, it is dialing up pressure. They drafted Harris, paying Branch and Wake big money, but when you watch them play, qb's have all day. I need a coach that will dial up pressure not only from blitzes, but disguises. have you seen this creativity from Burke or VJ? Look at the job Wade has done in LA. He is a DNA type of guy. Was a HC, failed. But sure he's had his share of failures as a DC, but based on the prior commitments LA made on their D, he is coaching the hell out of them

 

what you fail to acknowledge, like many posters here, is more of the same is MORE OF THE SAME. More Tannehill, more Burke, more Wake at $9M. We had a great run last year. But it wasn't sustained. Kind of like 2008. Elite Teams change their ID, despite success. Pats traded for Cooks after winning a SB

 

Go watch some Mike Zimmer defense. You want disguised looks and pressures? That’s your man. He’s a head coach so it won’t be him. Look at his tree.

DNA, really?

 

yeah sorry for blowing you away about the DNA Talk. I know you can't comprehend that.
More of the same, you want another unproven DC hire.

 

The DNA talk is complete nonsense. Be real.

 

Rex Ryan and Wade Phillips have defense in their dna. in other words, since I have to explain to to you, they are meant to be DCs in this league

 

And I point out again that Adam Gase’s team shredded that Rex Ryan defense, DNA and all, twice last year.

If that’s your best reasoning for wanting a person to be a D. Coordinator, I’d rather talk to hitman8.

 

and Bill Belichick teams and Joh Harbaugh teams shred us. what's your point? you ignore parts of my post. look at the body of work of a Wade or Rex. Burke and VJ were over their heads. Gase is over his head too. The guy that shredded that defense, Ajayi, isn't even on the team anymore LOL

 

I didn’t ignore anything about DNA. It’s complete nonsense.

You’ve ignored quite a lot though:

Reasons Marvin Lewis would make a better DC than Paul Guenther.

Mike Zimmer’s defense and his coaching tree.

Why Adam Gase shredded the guy you want as DC twice last year.

 

you want to hire more former bengals coaches and even Lewis himself. Hasn't worked, starting with Coyle. until the team changes its avenue of thinking, more mediocrity will exist. you have lost this battle. I win

 

No, I never mentioned Lewis. You did. Which is weird because defense is not in his DNA.

 

this was the quote:
we hire so many ex-Cincy coaches, I wouldn't be shocked if we picked up Marvin Lewis as DC after he gets fired

ever heard of sarcasm? Now leave the basement, mommy says it is dinner time

 

Thanks for proving my point. Where’s hitman8 when I need him?

 

now that I have won this debate, unless you have another point, I will take my W and keep posting my thought-provoking threads. try to understand the context and the basis of posts. maybe try re-reading them. thanks for playing

 

You win nothing. Hitman8, are you dirtylandry?

 

Proven coordinators usually aren't available unless they were snatched up by a team for a head coach position and failed at it. if they are great at there jobs they are not available. I tried to pull numbers for success rates of unproven vs proven guys but didn't get results easily so i don't have them to post here....maybe a numbers guy like cbrad can post them. I remember reading a year or two ago that super bowl winning head coaches have never won a super bowl with another team so also was trying to see if that correlated to offensive and defensive coaches who went on to other teams. When you say stuff like wake has to go because we have been mediocre with him on the team its hard to take anything after that seriously.....you dont get rid rid of your best players who have no baggage because you aren't winning you add more good players....thats just my opinion but I would find it hard to see it any other way. those guys should be kept around to mentor the newly drafted guys with potential. Thats what builds a winning team. Great vets and good drafts........coaching isnt our issue.....has been in the past and I may be wrong but it looks to be trending up......people have said gase has an ego and whatnot but tell me bill bellicheck doesn't with a straight face. I want to see our team with there starting QB next season and go from there. To me blowing up the team and firing the coaches equals more mediocrity.

 

Tough stat to get given the way football databases are like. I think you have to do that manually lol.

I can give one example from memory: Mike Shanahan. He was the OC during SF's 1994 season where they won a SB, then of course won SB's with Denver as HC (assuming that's what you were asking).

 

Guys like Vic Fangio and Todd Bowles could be available this offseason. They are both about as clear an upgrade as we're gonna get. Bringing back Vance Joseph shouldn't even be under consideration.

 

I'd take Vance Joseph back as a DB coach only.