Why not wait to see how he does in training camp first (assuming he's there)?

But yeah, I'm pessimistic DJ will earn a roster spot. Just never saw the desire to do what it takes to succeed in the NFL from him. I mean.. people can change, but more often than not they don't, so we'll see.

 

andre branch, terrence fede, chris jones.

If the guy is back and committed you make room, its not difficult.

 

He may not be worth a spot on the 53 man roster, but he sure as hell is worth a spot in the TC roster based on potential alone. If he can't beat out a DE or LB in the 53, then by all means cut him, trade him or whatever. Doesn't mean we can't give a chance right now to prove he belongs.

 

Id cut Dallas Thomas...keep one less OL.

 

Derrick Shelby, Kelvin Sheppard, and Olivier Vernon are all gone. That's 2,486 total snaps. Sheppard played the least at 708 so you have three open spots for approx. 708 snaps this season. If Jordan proves talented enough to warrant playing time, there are are more than enough snaps for him to play situationally or full-time.

 

You don't really have to cut anyone at this point. Bring him to camp and see what happens.

 

I think Dion has learned his lesson & will play with a vengeance this season. will know more after he can join the team officially.

 

I think you can probably keep less offensive linemen than typical, given how veteran heavy and flexible your roster is. I think you could pretty safety keep 8, when the Dolphins have kept 9-10 the last few years.

I think it's also possible you keep 3 DTs, considering Suh is going to play 80%+ of your snaps, and Jason Jones is going to get a lot of DT snaps(and has been a full-time starter there in his career).

 

If he can still do this:



he will always have a roster spot. List him as a LB for all I care. Oh, CUT misi!!

 

I don't get why a lot of people want to make their minds up already. Let him play, let him try to compete, let the new team with a new coach get a sense of where he's at.

 

Eh. 6'6" 250 keeping up with 6'6" 260 without even once trying to play the ball. Patriots would take that all day.

 

That play is not the end all be all of his coverage ability, who knows what he weighed in that vid.

 

Well, the 6'6" 260 guy is the best TE in football by quite a bit and probably has about a 50-50 chance of going down as the best TE of all time, so keeping up with him is no small task and better than what 98% of all NFL LBs and probably 100% of all NFL DEs (which Jordan effectively was at that time) could do. He's also pretty clearly bigger than Gronk there. And he does try to play the ball as he puts his left hand in there right around the time the ball arrives. On a back shoulder pass, that's also no small task, as I'd estimate NFL CBs make a legitimate try for the ball on back shoulder passes probably less than 20% of the time.

 

cut daniel thomas, again for the 3rd? 4th? time.

 

shhhhh. let him continue to believe anyone can cover Gronk.

 

...and jam & cover Megatron:












IMO this is what DJ would bring to the table if his mind is right. Those of us who thought DJ could be a dominant NFL pass rusher were wrong. He just doesn't have the "get up." But we need cover LBs and Vance's zone scheme will accentuate DJ's skills.

 

How does the ability to man cover relate to his ability to play in space, specifically his ability to read, diagnose and take the right option?

I've seen quite a few clips where DJ pins his ears back and runs and jumps. But can you provide one clip that showcases him making intelligent decisions?

 

It has begun...We'll see if Vance Joseph and Adam Gase think he's valuable or not.

 

Make intelligent decisions? If you are 260+ and can run with 2 of the more physically imposing pass catchers we've seen in the past several yrs, then I'm pretty sure you can stay in your zone area & take care of your responsibilities. Riding someone in your zone is much easier to do than playing man coverage.

Why do you make it seem more difficult than it is? What, you hold Jordan to a higher standard than other LBs? I'm not saying DJ can cover like PrimeTime but according to you he has to diagnose plays(pre-snap) like Zach, right?

Look, I get it many are still raw about him being the 3rd overall pick. That's done. But like I posted previously, if his mind is right we can salvage something out of him.

 

Finding a roster spot for DJ for training camp and the preseason shouldn't even be a consideration. We signed 11 UDFA following the draft, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that DJ stands a better chance of making the 53 man roster than Farrington Huguenin.

 

I don't agree with this. Most of what we saw of him as a Dolphin was at 265+ and not out wide as he'd likely be in a Wide 9. It was also with his hand on the ground, which didn't seem to be his forte. But in college he had not only good but elite "get up" from a two-point stance and out wide. Indeed, it was that "get up" that convinced many people that he could/would be a very good pass rusher despite not having big pass rush stats in college.

[video=youtube;ien21zkQ1sI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ien21zkQ1sI[/video]

 

I think the biggest issue is all the pre-snap stuff. If he's a part-time player you can avoid that, but the more he's out there the harder it is to just put him in a position to go play.

That being said, I think the coverage stuff is going to be highly tempting. Vance Joseph wants to press receivers, and Dion Jordan gives you an opportunity to do it to guys you usually don't have the option on. It also fits very well with the other principle in re: to a DE attacking the tight end in the run game.

 

People aren't sidestepping the issue -- it's an inherently flawed question. Asking whose roster spot he takes before we see him or anyone else in practice or the preseason makes no sense. If he is FILO through camp and preseason and dominates the preseason with 11 sacks and 7 INTs (extreme example) he can have virtually anyone's roster spot. Certainly, Branch, Fede, Misi, Paysinger, Vigil, etc. Even at one-fifth of that level he can have most of those roster spots as far as I am concerned.

 

You need to diagnose what is happening, then make a decision based on your diagnosis. You need to know what your assignment is, or what zone you need to cover, before you actually cover. This needs to happen pre-snap and after the ball is snapped.

 

The guy has been out of football for two years, and has only been working out for the past two months. Its very possible that he isn't even in good enough shape to make very far in preseason.

 

There are many DEs that have the size/speed comparable to Dion Jordan.

 

What? No, no, no.

What's easier:

1. Follow this guy like white on rice.

2. Cover anyone who is in your zone. But 3 people are headed to your zone. He absolutely has to diagnose presnap and then make decisions while the play is on. Man on man, just follow your guy till the bell rings.

 

No offense but at this point in time this question is just plain silly. Every team in the NFL goes into the preseason with a 90 man roster and then evaluates players to cut down in stages to the eventual 53 man roster. There are just too many things that will happen between now and the final 53 roster to predict who will make it and whose spot he will take. Over the course of preseason some players will shine, some will regress, some may get hurt and chances are there will be players on the final 53 that aren't even in Miami at this point as we pick up players cut by other teams. The bottom line is that of the 90 players brought to camp there are few who have a roster spot (most coaches will tell you no one does) so if DJ makes the final 53 then he has earned the spot, not taken it from anyone.

 

But coverage ability isn't just about size and speed. How many NFL DEs have you seen 20 yards downfield covering Gronk or Calvin Johnson? I'm really interested in seeing your list.

 

[video=twitter;529755910038892544]https://twitter.com/pff_sam/status/529755910038892544[/video]

Von Miller is faster and quicker.

Video at 3:21
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000421950/Week-9-Broncos-vs-Patriots-highlights

Again, you put Dion on an island with Brady's laser accuracy, BB's genius, and Gronk's savvy, well. I think it's a matchup the Patriots would like.

 

Corey Lemonier, Marcus Smith, Barkevious Mingo, etc.

How many times did we see Dion Jordan do it? What else does Jordan do well in coverage besides running downfield in a straight line?

 

Really? When did you see Corey Lemonier, Marcus Smith or Barkevious Mingo covering the best TE of his generation and the best WR of this generation 20+ yards downfield? How'd they do it at? I'm guessing Mingo wasn't especially good at it as the Browns are asking him to add 20 lbs and play as a true DE, as opposed to a 240 lb LB. Same for Marcus Smith, who is reportedly being relieved of his coverage responsibilities and moved to DE. Corey Lemonier has never played against Gronk or Calvin Johnson so I'm pretty sure he wasn't covering them 20 yards downfield.

We haven't seen Dion do it often but when he did it he did pretty well. And he wasn't just running in a straight line.

 

Not a real good example IMO. Miller never puts a hand on him. He gives him a free release on a 1 yd slant. How many players in the NFL do you think would succeed on a regular basis giving Gronk a free release on a 1 yard slant?

Jordan is much longer than Miller and just as long and big as Gronk. Part of the appeal of him in coverage is that he can put his hands on him and play physically. Maybe Miller is capable of it too, but he didn't do it there.

 

Yes - those guys have done comparable things (maybe not against Gronkowski or Johnson, but against similar players). You turn your head and run in a straight line - not rocket science.

You hit the nail on the head when you point out that guys like this aren't being used in the fashion you want Jordan used. The more you use these guys in coverage, the more offenses take advantage of their shortcomings. Sure, you can get Dion Jordan on Gronkowski for a couple of plays, but eventually the Patriots will figure out a way to get him matched up on Julian Edelman. How do you think Jordan would fare against Edelman? You can find many plays of guys like Marcus Smith or Barkevious Mingo blowing assignments or simply getting beat by RBs or smaller receivers.

 

Think Gronk and co don't have a plan for how Dion would play him? That's what Brady and BB thrive on. Depending on the coverage and the way Jordan plays Gronk, they would adjust, without saying a word to each other. Jordan is not a defensive back. Now you're going to ask him to consistently cover one of the most sophisticated passing attacks of all time, with 3 of the greatest at their position (Head Coach, QB, TE). He covered Gronk on a handful of plays, in a game where Brady only threw for 112 yards.

When Dion Jordan shows me he's savvy enough to drop back in coverage and not blow assignments, I'll change my mind.

 

i have a good source that said he was closer to 285 :shifty:

 

I think the major issue is none of us have seen the real Dion Jordan at the nfl level.

 

So, what's to keep Dion from making the roster again, only to disappear after getting paid, again. By being paid, I'm talking about getting any monies owed to him for roster or guaranteed, or whatever. Why is his return not suspicious to anyone else. I don't trust him.