Tua...''He's the greatest prospect ever''

"DPhinz_Dphinz wrote:

Whether we should draft another QB should come down to one question...

Can Tua, and by extension...us, beat the good teams that have good DC's?

With everything on the line can we truly say we feel good having to beat the Bills...the Ravens...the Chiefs?

As of right now, I don't see that happening. I place 30-40% of the blame on Tua's shoulders (depending on how well he knows the offense) and McDaniel gets the rest for poor play-calling...versus a DC worth his salt and not the bums.

lol… hello, “new guy”.

Justin Fields is not a very good quarterback. He's a heck of an athlete, but he's not a quarterback, and what I mean by that is he's not going to throw his way to victory. If Joe Burrow sprains his ankle, he's still going to stand in the pocket, throw his way down the field, and have the team in a position to win/score. If Justin Fields sprains his ankle in a game, he's out, and done, there is nothing else he can offer. Under no circumstances is he a better quarterback than Tua. He's just not! He's a running QB who is exceptional at that, but he gets smashed one good time and he's injured. There's a reason the Bears are moving on from him and going after Caleb Williams. To me, I'd rather have a Quarterback who is a passer first and a runner second. It's why I've never really been a big-time believer in Lamar Jackson.

In playoff games, teams plan for things like that. They put a spy on a mobile QB and they force them to beat them with their arm and these guys just can't do against a good defense. Cunningham couldn't do it for all his greatness, Michael Vick couldn't, Lamar has won two MVPs and has never sniffed the Super Bowl, Kaep did it with the 49ers and he's an exception, but he's also the worst of the worst on this list. I think the San Fran defense had way more to do with them getting to the Super Bowl than he did.

I think the one consistency that always has and always will be with the position is first and foremost the ability to throw the football. If you have a guy back there who can make all the throws and is accurate, you always have a chance in a game. Justin Fields doesn't give me that feeling at all. Tua gives me that confidence way more than Fields does.

Now I do think we should continue to explore options at the position itself. How does the team feel about Skylar Thompson at this point? How do we feel about Mike White? Personally I think both will be back and we're already looking at our trio of QBs for the 2024-25 season.

Just talking strictly Quarterbacks for the moment, I do have a few free agents that I would like to see get a second chance as starters in this league. These are guys that are most certainly not going to be Miami Dolphins, but they have some untapped potential/talent. Keep in mind, Quarterbacks have a long shelf life. It's been proven time and time again over the years.

1. Drew Lock - I wanted us to draft him coming out of college. He's had a few starts, I love his confidence out there, I still think he can be good.

2. Jake Browning - I have a feeling he may be starting somewhere next season.

3. Baker Mayfield - He'll definitely be a starter somewhere next year. Most likely back with the Bucs.

4. Tyler Huntley - He's played mostly well whenever he's had to fill in for Lamar Jackson.

Also, let's assume that Tua for some reason doesn't work out here with us. I would love to see this team trade for Sam Howell. I don't think he's in Washingtons long term plans, but I really like him. He is a fun quarterback to watch, the guy can really spin it and he's someone you love to root for. Word he's most likely available for a day 3 pick! I honestly think we should just trade for him and make him the backup to Tua. If Tua has a bad year or gets hurt, then we have his replacement in Howell moving forward. For those that haven't really watched him play, he's pretty damn good.

"ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

Justin Fields is not a very good quarterback. He's a heck of an athlete, but he's not a quarterback, and what I mean by that is he's not going to throw his way to victory. If Joe Burrow sprains his ankle, he's still going to stand in the pocket, throw his way down the field, and have the team in a position to win/score. If Justin Fields sprains his ankle in a game, he's out, and done, there is nothing else he can offer. Under no circumstances is he a better quarterback than Tua. He's just not! He's a running QB who is exceptional at that, but he gets smashed one good time and he's injured. There's a reason the Bears are moving on from him and going after Caleb Williams. To me, I'd rather have a Quarterback who is a passer first and a runner second. It's why I've never really been a big-time believer in Lamar Jackson.

In playoff games, teams plan for things like that. They put a spy on a mobile QB and they force them to beat them with their arm and these guys just can't do against a good defense. Cunningham couldn't do it for all his greatness, Michael Vick couldn't, Lamar has won two MVPs and has never sniffed the Super Bowl, Kaep did it with the 49ers and he's an exception, but he's also the worst of the worst on this list. I think the San Fran defense had way more to do with them getting to the Super Bowl than he did.

I think the one consistency that always has and always will be with the position is first and foremost the ability to throw the football. If you have a guy back there who can make all the throws and is accurate, you always have a chance in a game. Justin Fields doesn't give me that feeling at all. Tua gives me that confidence way more than Fields does.

Now I do think we should continue to explore options at the position itself. How does the team feel about Skylar Thompson at this point? How do we feel about Mike White? Personally I think both will be back and we're already looking at our trio of QBs for the 2024-25 season.

Just talking strictly Quarterbacks for the moment, I do have a few free agents that I would like to see get a second chance as starters in this league. These are guys that are most certainly not going to be Miami Dolphins, but they have some untapped potential/talent. Keep in mind, Quarterbacks have a long shelf life. It's been proven time and time again over the years.

1. Drew Lock - I wanted us to draft him coming out of college. He's had a few starts, I love his confidence out there, I still think he can be good.

2. Jake Browning - I have a feeling he may be starting somewhere next season.

3. Baker Mayfield - He'll definitely be a starter somewhere next year. Most likely back with the Bucs.

4. Tyler Huntley - He's played mostly well whenever he's had to fill in for Lamar Jackson.

Also, let's assume that Tua for some reason doesn't work out here with us. I would love to see this team trade for Sam Howell. I don't think he's in Washingtons long term plans, but I really like him. He is a fun quarterback to watch, the guy can really spin it and he's someone you love to root for. Word he's most likely available for a day 3 pick! I honestly think we should just trade for him and make him the backup to Tua. If Tua has a bad year or gets hurt, then we have his replacement in Howell moving forward. For those that haven't really watched him play, he's pretty damn good.

Question, which I think you would agree with, the concern with Fields is if he gets injured, and loses the mobility. But I think, and I'd imagine you'd agree, that a QB who is a runner doesn't have to be as good of a passer because his running potential causes the defense to play differently. So yeah, like throwing skills wise, I don't doubt that you are probably right to say that Tua is more skilled. However, if we're trying to discuss how each one might play, we're considering them as healthy, in which wouldn't Fields kinda be preferred?

Like that doesn't mean I think he's better, I just think he can impact the game better. Like, I know it's not Madden, but just for a comparison, I'd take the 88 overall QB with 93 speed, 87 stamina 92 strength 82 throw over a 95 QB with low numbers in those areas but a 99 accuracy and touch and 99 AWR. Like I'm saying my 88 QB would have a bigger impact on the game for me than the "better" QB.

Don't know if I'm explaining what I mean well enough.

I never said I would give up a first for Fields, just that I would inquire to see what it would take.

"danmarino wrote:

lol… hello, “new guy”.

"Sceeto wrote:

Alright. dj!!! THIS IS FOR YOU, MAN!!!!!!! Alright, man? PARA TI, MOFO'ER! LOL!!!

Yeah, it's Barry. I could go on about that, but......just watch it at the end of your day when you have some time.

LOL!!!

Not watching an hour of that asshat but is that the video where he goes off on a rant about DouglieDoWrong saying he will have more subscribers than him soon? He showed his true colours in that video, truly looked like a deranged lunatic and any Dolphins fan that follows this grifter should be ashamed of themselves.

He's not even a Dolphins fan, he's having a go at actual Dolphins fans on YouTube as he's jealous of their success and he's taking all of you for suckers playing the Tua angle for more clicks.

"Sceeto wrote:

https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/miami-dolphins-mocked-to-take-qb-michael-penix-jr-by-fox-analyst

Please. They really have to try something.
Even if it is just competition.
We may have a shot at a decent prospect.
If nothing else, it is competition for Tua and that is a good thing.

I would take a seriously look at Fields.

Justin Fields? Seriously?

Have you watched him trying to play QB from the pocket?

He's the definition of a coach killer. Someone who has unreal athletic ability that they think they can mould into a QB. Problem is, history has shown that it is very hard to get someone to be more accurate while improving the ability to read defences as well. Josh Allen is one of those rare successes and even now he isn't great from the pocket unless it's against the Dolphins.

"DPhinz_Dphinz wrote:

Whether we should draft another QB should come down to one question...

Can Tua, and by extension...us, beat the good teams that have good DC's?

With everything on the line can we truly say we feel good having to beat the Bills...the Ravens...the Chiefs?

As of right now, I don't see that happening. I place 30-40% of the blame on Tua's shoulders (depending on how well he knows the offense) and McDaniel gets the rest for poor play-calling...versus a DC worth his salt and not the bums.

So you don't blame an interior OL consisting of Lester Cotton, Liam Eichenberg and Rob Jones? That gets a pass but it's 30-40% the QB fault? I saw Eichenberg getting pushed so far into the backfield so quickly that a screen pass hit him on the head. I saw him getting bullrushed and thrown to the floor not once but twice in that he injured the actual starting OL. I lost count of the amount of times I saw Cotton and Jones whiffing on blocks and allowing stunts to just free run past them.

Tua didn't play well at the end of the season but there are extenuating circumstances from the interior OL being genuinely the worst in the league to Hill inexplicably dropping numerous passes that hit him in the hands at crucial times. I'm not absolving Tua of all blame, he looked very skittish back there at times but to say he's to blame for 40% of the issues is absolutely wild to me.

"resnor wrote:

Question, which I think you would agree with, the concern with Fields is if he gets injured, and loses the mobility. But I think, and I'd imagine you'd agree, that a QB who is a runner doesn't have to be as good of a passer because his running potential causes the defense to play differently. So yeah, like throwing skills wise, I don't doubt that you are probably right to say that Tua is more skilled. However, if we're trying to discuss how each one might play, we're considering them as healthy, in which wouldn't Fields kinda be preferred?

Like that doesn't mean I think he's better, I just think he can impact the game better. Like, I know it's not Madden, but just for a comparison, I'd take the 88 overall QB with 93 speed, 87 stamina 92 strength 82 throw over a 95 QB with low numbers in those areas but a 99 accuracy and touch and 99 AWR. Like I'm saying my 88 QB would have a bigger impact on the game for me than the "better" QB.

Don't know if I'm explaining what I mean well enough.

My thoughts would be, who are the 5 greatest QB's of all time and how many of them were run first QB's? Top 10? Any run first QB's in there?

Sure the run first QB can make flashy plays now and again but when it comes crunch time against good defences then in the NFL you have too be able to drop back, make a read and deliver an accurate on time ball. It's always going to be that way as good defences are just too big and too fast for a run first QB to make enough plays with their legs.

We've seen great QB's who are pass first but can run like Young, Mahomes and Rodgers (and plenty more I'm forgetting) and I'd love to get one like that but they are all pocket passers first and foremost. I'll be amazed if Fields ever turns into a good pocket passer, we've seen 3 years of him now and history is not on his side.

"Springveldt wrote:

My thoughts would be, who are the 5 greatest QB's of all time and how many of them were run first QB's? Top 10? Any run first QB's in there?

Sure the run first QB can make flashy plays now and again but when it comes crunch time against good defences then in the NFL you have too be able to drop back, make a read and deliver an accurate on time ball. It's always going to be that way as good defences are just too big and too fast for a run first QB to make enough plays with their legs.

We've seen great QB's who are pass first but can run like Young, Mahomes and Rodgers (and plenty more I'm forgetting) and I'd love to get one like that but they are all pocket passers first and foremost. I'll be amazed if Fields ever turns into a good pocket passer, we've seen 3 years of him now and history is not on his side.

Well, all I'll say is, the game has changed a ton. However, some of the greatest QBs were dual threats. Moon, Cunningham, Tarkinton, Vick, McNair, Young, I could go on.

"Springveldt wrote:

Not watching an hour of that asshat but is that the video where he goes off on a rant about DouglieDoWrong saying he will have more subscribers than him soon? He showed his true colours in that video, truly looked like a deranged lunatic and any Dolphins fan that follows this grifter should be ashamed of themselves.

He's not even a Dolphins fan, he's having a go at actual Dolphins fans on YouTube as he's jealous of their success and he's taking all of you for suckers playing the Tua angle for more clicks.

No it’s not that, yes he is an asshat, and yes that video calls Tua out for letting himself go.

All true

"resnor wrote:

Well, all I'll say is, the game has changed a ton. However, some of the greatest QBs were dual threats. Moon, Cunningham, Tarkinton, Vick, McNair, Young, I could go on.

Moon and Tark were great, but Moon rarely ran and averaged 8 yards rushing per game. Young was a pass first QB by a lot. Cunningham wasn’t an all time great. Same with Vick. Splashy plays, like what LJ and JA make are nice, but rarely win championships.

"resnor wrote:

Well, all I'll say is, the game has changed a ton. However, some of the greatest QBs were dual threats. Moon, Cunningham, Tarkinton, Vick, McNair, Young, I could go on.

Vick was fun to watch and as I've said multiple times if he couldn't make the run first QB work then I don't think anyone ever will. I don't think of Moon as a run first QB at all btw.

Cunningham, again fun to watch but I never think of him as an all time great. Same with McNair, very good QB but I wouldn't class as an all time great. Interestingly both Cunningham and McNair's rushing yardages start falling off a cliff after year 8, might be something to watch out for in Buffalo.

Tarkenton is way before my time but I am aware of him. His rushing yardages also decrease dramatically after year 8.

I'm assuming that Young is Steve rather than Vince as surely no one thinks of Vince Young as a great QB. Hell he might be Justin Fields v1.

Also I'm not sure the game has moved on a ton. It's probably that perception because of Mahomes but he's actually a pocket passer who can run if he needs to but he is a pass first QB. Buffalo were trying to make Allen that but were going to miss the playoffs so reverted to letting him shorten his career, Baltimore are trying to make Lamar that but he is still a much bigger threat with his legs and he has the number 1 rushing attack and defence in the league helping him.

"Springveldt wrote:

So you don't blame an interior OL consisting of Lester Cotton, Liam Eichenberg and Rob Jones? That gets a pass but it's 30-40% the QB fault? I saw Eichenberg getting pushed so far into the backfield so quickly that a screen pass hit him on the head. I saw him getting bullrushed and thrown to the floor not once but twice in that he injured the actual starting OL. I lost count of the amount of times I saw Cotton and Jones whiffing on blocks and allowing stunts to just free run past them.

Tua didn't play well at the end of the season but there are extenuating circumstances from the interior OL being genuinely the worst in the league to Hill inexplicably dropping numerous passes that hit him in the hands at crucial times. I'm not absolving Tua of all blame, he looked very skittish back there at times but to say he's to blame for 40% of the issues is absolutely wild to me.

When Eichenberg was getting pushed back I'd see an open man in the flat AND an open crosser...but he waited 3 seconds for Hill to clear.

Tua is going to face pressure vs good defenses because they know the offense is about timing and the recipient of that timing is Tyreke Hill...Tua's fault for locking on Hill.

Blitzes are so successful against us because of the above mentioned flaws of Tua and compounded by the play coming in late so often. This leaves Tua no time to check out (has he ever done so in this offense?) of a play.

This leaves a good DC to wait for the late play call, jam Hill because that is the target come hell or high-water and send one at Tua. Chances are slim that he avoids the 1st tackler.

"DPhinz_Dphinz wrote:

When Eichenberg was getting pushed back I'd see an open man in the flat AND an open crosser...but he waited 3 seconds for Hill to clear.

Tua is going to face pressure vs good defenses because they know the offense is about timing and the recipient of that timing is Tyreke Hill...Tua's fault for locking on Hill.

Blitzes are so successful against us because of the above mentioned flaws of Tua and compounded by the play coming in late so often. This leaves Tua no time to check out (has he ever done so in this offense?) of a play.

This leaves a good DC to wait for the late play call, jam Hill because that is the target come hell or high-water and send one at Tua. Chances are slim that he avoids the 1st tackler.

Most of this is just flat wrong and made up.

Keep trying though, "new guy".

"danmarino wrote:

Moon and Tark were great, but Moon rarely ran and averaged 8 yards rushing per game. Young was a pass first QB by a lot. Cunningham wasn’t an all time great. Same with Vick. Splashy plays, like what LJ and JA make are nice, but rarely win championships.

Cunningham is a HoFer. All time great in my book. I mean, at least don't act like he wasn't a great player. And you're minimizing Vick.

Regardless, it doesn't matter if you want to argue. Those guess ran. Oh I left out Elway. These dudes were running when it wasn't really a thing. So it was even more effective, and they didn't have to run a bunch...plus back then you got actually murdered by the linebackers if they got you.

The point was, having mobile/running QBs isn't really a novel thing, as people continue to want to argue. I mean how many decades of effectiveness just we have before we stop calling it a novelty?

"Springveldt wrote:

Vick was fun to watch and as I've said multiple times if he couldn't make the run first QB work then I don't think anyone ever will. I don't think of Moon as a run first QB at all btw.

Cunningham, again fun to watch but I never think of him as an all time great. Same with McNair, very good QB but I wouldn't class as an all time great. Interestingly both Cunningham and McNair's rushing yardages start falling off a cliff after year 8, might be something to watch out for in Buffalo.

Tarkenton is way before my time but I am aware of him. His rushing yardages also decrease dramatically after year 8.

I'm assuming that Young is Steve rather than Vince as surely no one thinks of Vince Young as a great QB. Hell he might be Justin Fields v1.

Also I'm not sure the game has moved on a ton. It's probably that perception because of Mahomes but he's actually a pocket passer who can run if he needs to but he is a pass first QB. Buffalo were trying to make Allen that but were going to miss the playoffs so reverted to letting him shorten his career, Baltimore are trying to make Lamar that but he is still a much bigger threat with his legs and he has the number 1 rushing attack and defence in the league helping him.

I never said "run first."

I said "dual threats."

Vick gets minimized mostly because people still hate him for the dog shit.

"DPhinz_Dphinz wrote:

When Eichenberg was getting pushed back I'd see an open man in the flat AND an open crosser...but he waited 3 seconds for Hill to clear.

Tua is going to face pressure vs good defenses because they know the offense is about timing and the recipient of that timing is Tyreke Hill...Tua's fault for locking on Hill.

Blitzes are so successful against us because of the above mentioned flaws of Tua and compounded by the play coming in late so often. This leaves Tua no time to check out (has he ever done so in this offense?) of a play.

This leaves a good DC to wait for the late play call, jam Hill because that is the target come hell or high-water and send one at Tua. Chances are slim that he avoids the 1st tackler.

Oh really??

Tua vs the blitz:
Passer rating 130.09
25/36
286 yards
4 TDs
0 Int
0 sacks

"resnor wrote:

I never said "run first."

I said "dual threats."

Vick gets minimized mostly because people still hate him for the dog ****.

The secret for defeating Vick was keeping him in the pocket and not let him get outside.

We decimated Vick in December 2001, holding him to 11/20 for 214 yards, 1 TD and 2 Int.

Dual threat quarterbacks have flashes that make highlight reels but when it comes to winning championships, they fail more often than they succeed.

Keep them in the pocket and force them to play quarterback.

"resnor wrote:

Cunningham is a HoFer. All time great in my book. I mean, at least don't act like he wasn't a great player. And you're minimizing Vick.

Regardless, it doesn't matter if you want to argue. Those guess ran. Oh I left out Elway. These dudes were running when it wasn't really a thing. So it was even more effective, and they didn't have to run a bunch...plus back then you got actually murdered by the linebackers if they got you.

The point was, having mobile/running QBs isn't really a novel thing, as people continue to want to argue. I mean how many decades of effectiveness just we have before we stop calling it a novelty?

lol… Randall Cunningham isn’t in the HoF and he never will be.
Cunningham was a good player, he wasn’t an all time great and not close to being a HoF’er.

Vick was a career 55% completion % passer. He could run fast, but couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. Not an all time great… or HoF’er. lol

"resnor wrote:

I never said "run first."

I said "dual threats."

Vick gets minimized mostly because people still hate him for the dog ****.

I loved watching Vick play as he was a human highlight reel that could take off at any moment. He gets minimized because although he had a cannon for an arm he was widely inaccurate and had no touch on his passes, everything was a missile. He just wasn't good at the QB part of the game when you kept him in the pocket.

It's no surprise his best years passing the ball came with Andy Reid.

The "dual threat" QB's that are in the HOF are there because they were actually pocket passers who could scramble. The vast majority of them didn't actually have any run plays designed into the scheme for them the way Allen, Jackson and Fields have.

"Springveldt wrote:

I loved watching Vick play as he was a human highlight reel that could take off at any moment. He gets minimized because although he had a cannon for an arm he was widely inaccurate and had no touch on his passes, everything was a missile. He just wasn't good at the QB part of the game when you kept him in the pocket.

It's no surprise his best years passing the ball came with Andy Reid.

The "dual threat" QB's that are in the HOF are there because they were actually pocket passers who could scramble. The vast majority of them didn't actually have any run plays designed into the scheme for them the way Allen, Jackson and Fields have.

Again, you're arguing something in not saying.

The simple fact is, they were guys who could run, and they would run. It made them more effective.

Being able to run yourself makes you much more dangerous. I truly don't understand why people want to minimize it, especially since running QBs are so commonplace at this point in the league.

All I'm saying is that guys who can run and throw have always been around, they are in the HoF, and being able to do both makes you more effective, and it's not sooner novelty.

"resnor wrote:

Again, you're arguing something in not saying.

The simple fact is, they were guys who could run, and they would run. It made them more effective.

Being able to run yourself makes you much more dangerous. I truly don't understand why people want to minimize it, especially since running QBs are so commonplace at this point in the league.

All I'm saying is that guys who can run and throw have always been around, they are in the HoF, and being able to do both makes you more effective, and it's not sooner novelty.

Steve young was the best dual threat because his runs were consciously calculated imo

FanDuel weighs in:

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

FanDuel weighs in:

:sidelol: