Tua is not the Problem

Get over it already

"Fireland wrote:

Get over it already

Why?

"hitman8 wrote:

“I still don’t think Tua is the long term answer… I still think they look elsewhere in 2023”

- @AdamHBeasley

(h/t @TheFan4Life) pic.twitter.com/qjOJOTN0O1

— Dolphin Nation (@Dolphin_Nation) February 16, 2022

Is this a random tweet, quoting a sports reporter, "hat tipping" another random tweet, with no source origin?

"hitman8 wrote:

So basically, you're saying you are satisfied with Tia being good, but not great...

I'm saying that I've waited more than 20 years for good, so I'll enjoy this until something better comes along. Don't misunderstand: I want a better QB than Tua for my team. Heck, I want a better QB than Aaron Rodgers. But I'll complain when we settle for a bad QB. Again. And I'll also complain when I think the team has the talent to be sustainably competitive but it's my perception that the QB is holding us back. I don't currently perceive that.

"Fireland wrote:

Get over it already

It's a fair (and fun) debate. It's gonna be a long offseason, so what else do we have to discuss?

"hitman8 wrote:

“I still don’t think Tua is the long term answer… I still think they look elsewhere in 2023”

- @AdamHBeasley

(h/t @TheFan4Life) pic.twitter.com/qjOJOTN0O1

— Dolphin Nation (@Dolphin_Nation) February 16, 2022

That's his opinion. And opinions are like ***holes. But in the end, he's either right or wrong and I think it'll be fun to find out.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

It's a fair (and fun) debate. It's gonna be a long offseason, so what else do we have to discuss?

Well there is nothing to discuss regarding Herbert. We know they should have taken him.

"Fireland wrote:

Well there is nothing to discuss regarding Herbert. We know they should have taken him.

Crying over spilled milk is poor form. Let's discuss the 30 or so players "should have been taken" over the past decade, too. If that's a pointless exercise, so is pissing and moaning over not taking Herbert. I can imagine a time when we could lose in the AFC Championship in overtime and some of our fans will be complaining that we would have won if we had Justin Herbert, even though his team would have been eliminated.

I watched Bradshaw's HBO special last night, expecting it to be stand-up comedy, but it was actually him telling his story starting out with the Steelers. It was a GREAT watch, especially since I was too young in his era to really see him play.

Anyway, his 1st few years in the league, he was labeled a failure and he went onto say if he would have played today, he would have washed out by year 3 since the league gives up on QBs way too fast. He talked about the immaculate reception, where he was under extreme pressure, saw a black jersey down the field and chucked the ball without even knowing who it was or whether or not they were open. He also shared that whenever he was in trouble, he'd throw the ball as hard as he could in the direction of Swann...sometimes without even looking to see if he was open.

The point he kept coming back to over and over again was the philosophy of team...they had 11 guys on offense that were always there for each other, plus the defense was so good that it allowed him to take a lot of chances. He felt like any of his 3 receivers could come down with the ball anywhere on the field, especially Swann, and he really didn't care if they were open or not.

Afterwards, I couldn't help but compare that to the situation Tua is in. Yes, he has guys like Williams and Parker who can elevate to catch tough passes, but he doesn't have the chemistry with them like Fitzpatrick or even Rosen did. He also has Gisecki, but those are developing routes and he probably doesn't see Gisecki with the amount of time he has in the pocket.

That's why so much went to Waddle last year- that was Tua's "Swanny" and they were all shorter routes due to pressure.

What am I trying to say- I don't know, LOL. Maybe Tua needs to stop trying to be so perfect. Bradshaw touched on those first three years where he was largely a failure came partially because his coach was so mean to him- he was always telling him off and putting him down. The coach was so ugly that Bradshaw was terrified of making a mistake and it made him spend too much time thinking in the pocket. But eventually, he said the heck with it and just started throwing the football. And that's when his career projection completely turned around.

I never thought it before, but it's entirely possible that Flores was "holding Tua back" by not supporting him enough. Maybe he can turn a corner this year under a coach that believes in him, and maybe he can unlock more of the intermediate passing game by saying "the heck with it." We saw the same thing with Tannehill, he was so scared to make a mistake, that he didn't take that step in his career until he stopped trying to be so conservative. But I think quarterbacks sort of have to play that way in this era because their careers are so short otherwise.

"Fireland wrote:

Well there is nothing to discuss regarding Herbert. We know they should have taken him.

Thing is, I'm not so sure everyone or even the majority on this board will admit that. They fall back on other arguments, like the line sucks and/or he needs more/better weapons, better coaching, etc. Or, what difference does it make? What's done is done.

Some get it though, but we're definitely in the minority I think.

"The G Man wrote:

Thing is, I'm not so sure everyone or even the majority on this board will admit that. They fall back on other arguments, like the line sucks and/or he needs more/better weapons, better coaching, etc. Or, what difference does it make? What's done is done.

Some get it though, but we're definitely in the minority I think.

I wouldn't confuse people saying the jury is still out on Tua with thinking it was the right call. In theory they could win a SB with Tua and then it would be the right call but I think everyone here would take Herbert if they could redo it.

Problem is for some there is no room for anything other than "Herbert=good Tua=bad". It doesn't really have much relevance in regards to McDaniel trying to get the most out of him and this team. Should McDaniel just come out and say Tua sucks because he isn't as good as Herbert? I know there are many that would like to see him say that even though I don't see what good it would do.

"Fireland wrote:

I wouldn't confuse people saying the jury is still out on Tua with thinking it was the right call. In theory they could win a SB with Tua and then it would be the right call but I think everyone here would take Herbert if they could redo it.

Problem is for some there is no room for anything other than "Herbert=good Tua=bad". It doesn't really have much relevance in regards to McDaniel trying to get the most out of him and this team. Should McDaniel just come out and say Tua sucks because he isn't as good as Herbert? I know there are many that would like to see him say that even though I don't see what good it would do.

Agreed. While Tua has is issues and needs to improve, in the last two years he has been fine. I want a quarterback better than fine like everyone, however, it is not like he has been Josh Rosen out there.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

"Carrying the team" is such a fuzzy metric to stand on. I'd submit the list of young QBs who carried their team in the absence of talent is a very short one. A QB can't catch the ball or block for himself.

But I have faith in him reaching that standard because I'm expecting Tua to make correct reads and accurate throws. He's done that. He was a handful of drops from 70% this season and all I want from a QB is the ability to take care of the ball and lead his team. When he's had talent around him, he's proven himself to be a good QB. And although we all agree that the defense won the Ravens game this season, the energy that the team exhibited when Tua entered the game was entirely different and he played a helluva half. I'd suggest that he definitely carried that contest. He also carried the Cardinals game in 2020.

Furthermore, my respect for the Godsey/Studesville Experience is low. Neither of them stood out in previous stints as OCs and neither exonerated himself with the playcalling of this year's team. McDaniel might be blowing a ton of smoke up everybody's butt, but I honestly believe he can scheme Tua into being a top 10 QB. Fact is, Tua had several good games this season. The leap from "not bad" to "good" was encouraging enough to give me faith that he'll leap to being better soon.

Stop it.

I specifically said, he's never been the driving force of an offense. He was not the focus or the driver of the offense at Alabama, and he's been neither of those things thus far for the Dolphins.

Now, you may be happy with a high completion%, or for a high rating, or other such things. I'm not, and it is due this reason: Tua can have ALL the right stats being great, but it won't necessarily equate to being a force in the playoffs, because those numbers will be a result that was created by other players. I understand that the QB needs people to block and needs receivers to catch the ball. You may remember I made that argument many times regarding Tannehill. There are many many similarities, I think, between Tannehill and Tua. The reason that I personally wanted to give Tannehill time, was because of his arm. I believed that if you could give Tannehill a solid line, he had the arm to make every freaking throw. So, with a decent line, I believed Tannehill could pay at elite levels. Instead of having to throw short passes, he'd be able to attack downfield. With Tua, even with a good line, you don't have a guy who can really attack all the areas of the field. Regardless of his success with the "deep ball" in college, he hasn't shown much in the NFL, and it isn't all because of the crappy line play. Some of it is he doesn't seem to see NFL open, or he sees it, but isn't confident he can get it there.

Sorry for the book. Lol

I wasn't around for the Tannehill era, unfortunately. And I'm perfectly cool to disagree as long as we aren't disagreeable (which we aren't). Can't wait for you to tell me your #1 jersey is in the mail. I'm predicting it will be ordered right before Thanksgiving.

Flores says Tua works hard. Not sure where narrative came from that their relationship was strained etc.

Either he's telling the truth, or he's lying. Either way, Tua wasn't and isn't the problem. Management/Coaching was, and still might be. Let's hope for the best.

"Galant wrote:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1494641000802881575

Flores says Tua works hard. Not sure where narrative came from that their relationship was strained etc.

Either he's telling the truth, or he's lying. Either way, Tua wasn't and isn't the problem. Management/Coaching was, and still might be. Let's hope for the best.

Its because Tua was an obvious scapegoat. Even one of the reports that came out after Flores was fired said Tua had no issue with Flores continuing as coach.

"Galant wrote:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1494641000802881575

Flores says Tua works hard. Not sure where narrative came from that their relationship was strained etc.

Either he's telling the truth, or he's lying. Either way, Tua wasn't and isn't the problem. Management/Coaching was, and still might be. Let's hope for the best.

Flores was on a platform where he could have said anything he wanted to say about Tua, and said this.

That's very telling.

Tua isn't the problem.

An incompetent front office who have had more draft capital and free agent cap space and yet produce an offensive line to rival some of the worst of all time, are to blame before Tua. Is Tua elite? No probably not. Can he behind a competent line win games? I think so.

Grier and Ross are the problems, and have been for years. The years and years of failure and mistakes have one consistent thread. That is Ross and Grier. As a fan since being 4 years of age here in the UK each year hurts more and more.

Ross and Grier need to go, until that happens the Dolphins will continue to be a laughing stock.

"Galant wrote:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1494641000802881575

Flores says Tua works hard. Not sure where narrative came from that their relationship was strained etc.

Either he's telling the truth, or he's lying. Either way, Tua wasn't and isn't the problem. Management/Coaching was, and still might be. Let's hope for the best.

The specific concern that Flo allegedly had with Tua was that he took Tuesdays off instead of coming to the facility to get extra training. I can actually see Flo believing Tua worked hard when he was there but wanted him to want to work 8 days per week. He might be of both opinions.

"KeyFin wrote:

I watched Bradshaw's HBO special last night, expecting it to be stand-up comedy, but it was actually him telling his story starting out with the Steelers. It was a GREAT watch, especially since I was too young in his era to really see him play.

Anyway, his 1st few years in the league, he was labeled a failure and he went onto say if he would have played today, he would have washed out by year 3 since the league gives up on QBs way too fast. He talked about the immaculate reception, where he was under extreme pressure, saw a black jersey down the field and chucked the ball without even knowing who it was or whether or not they were open. He also shared that whenever he was in trouble, he'd throw the ball as hard as he could in the direction of Swann...sometimes without even looking to see if he was open.

The point he kept coming back to over and over again was the philosophy of team...they had 11 guys on offense that were always there for each other, plus the defense was so good that it allowed him to take a lot of chances. He felt like any of his 3 receivers could come down with the ball anywhere on the field, especially Swann, and he really didn't care if they were open or not.

Afterwards, I couldn't help but compare that to the situation Tua is in. Yes, he has guys like Williams and Parker who can elevate to catch tough passes, but he doesn't have the chemistry with them like Fitzpatrick or even Rosen did. He also has Gisecki, but those are developing routes and he probably doesn't see Gisecki with the amount of time he has in the pocket.

That's why so much went to Waddle last year- that was Tua's "Swanny" and they were all shorter routes due to pressure.

What am I trying to say- I don't know, LOL. Maybe Tua needs to stop trying to be so perfect. Bradshaw touched on those first three years where he was largely a failure came partially because his coach was so mean to him- he was always telling him off and putting him down. The coach was so ugly that Bradshaw was terrified of making a mistake and it made him spend too much time thinking in the pocket. But eventually, he said the heck with it and just started throwing the football. And that's when his career projection completely turned around.

I never thought it before, but it's entirely possible that Flores was "holding Tua back" by not supporting him enough. Maybe he can turn a corner this year under a coach that believes in him, and maybe he can unlock more of the intermediate passing game by saying "the heck with it." We saw the same thing with Tannehill, he was so scared to make a mistake, that he didn't take that step in his career until he stopped trying to be so conservative. But I think quarterbacks sort of have to play that way in this era because their careers are so short otherwise.

I definitely don't want a QB just chucking the ball when under pressure, in the general vicinity of a receiver he doesn't know is open. I was done with Tua this season after I watched him throw a pick in the red zone doing that.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

I wasn't around for the Tannehill era, unfortunately. And I'm perfectly cool to disagree as long as we aren't disagreeable (which we aren't). Can't wait for you to tell me your #1 jersey is in the mail. I'm predicting it will be ordered right before Thanksgiving.

Nah, I refuse to buy current players jerseys any more. They don't stay on the team. The last two jerseys I bought for myself were a Ronnie Brown, traded the next year, and a Tannehill, traded a year or two later. Then I got my son a Landry jersey, and he was gone the next year.

Actually, maybe I should get a Tua jersey. I'll get one for me and my son...pretty much guarantees that Tua will be gone the next year.

"resnor wrote:

Nah, I refuse to buy current players jerseys any more. They don't stay on the team. The last two jerseys I bought for myself were a Ronnie Brown, traded the next year, and a Tannehill, traded a year or two later. Then I got my son a Landry jersey, and he was gone the next year.

Actually, maybe I should get a Tua jersey. I'll get one for me and my son...pretty much guarantees that Tua will be gone the next year.

I'm going to design a "I'ma Tagavailoa!!" shirt (with a caricature of your face in Tua's cartoon uniform) and send one to you. Best gift you'll get this year. In 20 years, you'll still be wearing it at his induction in Canton and telling your grandkids you always knew he was going to be a hall of famer.

"Drafting him was the moment when everything changed for the Dolphins," you'll say, with a hint of a tear showing in your eye. "I knew it the day we drafted him."

Meanwhile, I'll be looking back over my shoulder, hearing your proud boast, recognizing you by that goofy shirt that I sent you, while thinking "This motherf***er right here, though..."

"KeyFin wrote:

I watched Bradshaw's HBO special last night, expecting it to be stand-up comedy, but it was actually him telling his story starting out with the Steelers. It was a GREAT watch, especially since I was too young in his era to really see him play.

Anyway, his 1st few years in the league, he was labeled a failure and he went onto say if he would have played today, he would have washed out by year 3 since the league gives up on QBs way too fast. He talked about the immaculate reception, where he was under extreme pressure, saw a black jersey down the field and chucked the ball without even knowing who it was or whether or not they were open. He also shared that whenever he was in trouble, he'd throw the ball as hard as he could in the direction of Swann...sometimes without even looking to see if he was open.

The point he kept coming back to over and over again was the philosophy of team...they had 11 guys on offense that were always there for each other, plus the defense was so good that it allowed him to take a lot of chances. He felt like any of his 3 receivers could come down with the ball anywhere on the field, especially Swann, and he really didn't care if they were open or not.

Afterwards, I couldn't help but compare that to the situation Tua is in. Yes, he has guys like Williams and Parker who can elevate to catch tough passes, but he doesn't have the chemistry with them like Fitzpatrick or even Rosen did. He also has Gisecki, but those are developing routes and he probably doesn't see Gisecki with the amount of time he has in the pocket.

That's why so much went to Waddle last year- that was Tua's "Swanny" and they were all shorter routes due to pressure.

What am I trying to say- I don't know, LOL. Maybe Tua needs to stop trying to be so perfect. Bradshaw touched on those first three years where he was largely a failure came partially because his coach was so mean to him- he was always telling him off and putting him down. The coach was so ugly that Bradshaw was terrified of making a mistake and it made him spend too much time thinking in the pocket. But eventually, he said the heck with it and just started throwing the football. And that's when his career projection completely turned around.

I never thought it before, but it's entirely possible that Flores was "holding Tua back" by not supporting him enough. Maybe he can turn a corner this year under a coach that believes in him, and maybe he can unlock more of the intermediate passing game by saying "the heck with it." We saw the same thing with Tannehill, he was so scared to make a mistake, that he didn't take that step in his career until he stopped trying to be so conservative. But I think quarterbacks sort of have to play that way in this era because their careers are so short otherwise.

It's nice to be optimistic, but there is just one problem with that comparison. Bradshaw was tough as nails and had a cannon for an arm, one of the strongest arms in NFL history. Tua on the other hand is fragile and has a noodle for an arm.

I really don't see the similarities other than they struggled early and their coach got on their case.

Tua's problem is not really mental, it's physical.

"canesz06 wrote:

Why?

BECAUSE HE PLAYS FOR THE EFING CHARGERS ALREADY!!!!!!

This sounds like an annoying continuous broken record!