Tua is not the Problem

The only thing dolphins tape from this season shows is a trash offensive line that doesn’t have a single tackle on the roster.

"hitman8 wrote:

I can print out that chart and wipe my *** with it for all it's worth. Typical stat buffs leading the blind. The tape don't lie, you should always trust the film and not stats.

Stats are misleading, what's the sample size? Tua doesn't even attempt to throw it long that much and prefers to check down. He doesn't take the chances downfield that a guy like Allen does because he doesn't have the same confidence in his arm. When he does throw it down field it's usually because the guy is wide open.

All this shows is that Tua knows when to take his chances downfield given his limitations. Which is something I already knew from actually watching him play, instead of just reading misleading charts.

I cannot tell if this is a troll parody post or not. Just in case it's not, why should anyone trust your eyes over the great number of pundits that have broken down and published various video's of Tua playing and not come to your conclusions? Also, when you call it "tape" you just come off as old and technologically impaired. I say this as someone who is old and technologically impaired enough to have loaded computer apps not only via magnetic tape spools, but punched paper tape too.

"Two Tacos wrote:

I cannot tell if this is a troll parody post or not. Just in case it's not, why should anyone trust your eyes over the great number of pundits that have broken down and published various video's of Tua playing and not come to your conclusions? Also, when you call it "tape" you just come off as old and technologically impaired. I say this as someone who is old and technologically impaired enough to have loaded computer apps not only via magnetic tape spools, but punched paper tape too.

I'm not asking anybody to trust me, I'm just saying what I see, and I have been right much more often than not. If you want to go listen to pundits go right ahead, just be aware they regularly get it completely wrong. And no, not every pundit sees it differently than me, there are quite a few analysts who have the same view I do. Tua's ok, but not great or elite.

As for the tape reference, it's just a figure of speech, goes without saying I actually mean video. Lot's of people use the word tape when they refer to watching game footage. Don't be so sensitive...

"hitman8 wrote:

I'm not asking anybody to trust me, I'm just saying what I see, and I have been right much more often than not. If you want to go listen to pundits go right ahead, just be aware they regularly get it completely wrong. And no, not every pundit sees it differently than me, there are quite a few analysts who have the same view I do. Tua's ok, but not great or elite.

As for the tape reference, it's just a figure of speech, goes without saying I actually mean video. Lot's of people use the word tape when they refer to watching game footage. Don't be so sensitive...

Which analysts are those? I haven't seen one that has concluded that he is unable to become great. That his arm is always going to hold him back. I haven't seen one think that he hits check downs because of his arm, instead of the line and WR play. If you cannot find anyone showing the "tape" that you mention, then where are you seeing that? Which games, plays, etc...? I have game pass.

Basically, I think you are full of malarkey, but don't snap your cap, or flip your wig. I'm not trying to be a wisenheimer, or bust your chops, I just think you're whistling dixie, instead of taking a gander at the actual film.

"Two Tacos wrote:

Which analysts are those? I haven't seen one that has concluded that he is unable to become great. That his arm is always going to hold him back. I haven't seen one think that he hits check downs because of his arm, instead of the line and WR play. If you cannot find anyone showing the "tape" that you mention, then where are you seeing that? Which games, plays, etc...? I have game pass.

Basically, I think you are full of malarkey, but don't snap your cap, or flip your wig. I'm not trying to be a wisenheimer, or bust your chops, I just think you're whistling dixie, instead of taking a gander at the actual film.

I have said numerous times, and I said it when we drafted him as well. Tua is not terrible. He will not be a complete bust, but he is also not elite, his talent was magnified because he was playing on a great team in Alabama and he had the media hype behind him. He is more of a system QB, if you put the right system in place for him and surround him with a great team he will do well. However, he is not the type of QB who can overcome adversity and elevate his teams play when he is not surrounded with a great supporting cast. He is not elite in that sense. The coaches have also realized this, which is exactly why we were actively courting Watson all this time. Aside from this, he has a fragile body and is liable to get injured anytime he takes a big hit. Availability and durability is also a talent which Tua unfortunately does not have, aside from not having a great arm or great football IQ. For all of these reasons, I don't think he was worth the #5 overall pick, and I said so when we drafted him.

Below are a couple of examples of analysts having similar views regarding Tua:

First 4 minutes and 15 seconds are basically my same sentiments regarding Tua.

This old geezer referring to "tape" again. Sorry about that...

"KeyFin wrote:

I fully agree; Barry Sanders was next-level, over the top elite. I used to love watching him work in traffic...he was magical!

For the younger folks here who don't know who he is, it's definitely worth taking a look. And it doesn't have to be highlight films either- just any random game will show him doing things that normal humans can't do. Easily the best running back ever and by far the most entertaining.

Living across the river from Detroit I got to see alot of Barry Sanders growing up. You're absolutely right here. Doesn't matter whether you're watching his highlights, or lowlights. His lowlights are highlights for most players. Special doesn't even begin to describe what Barry Sanders could do.

"hitman8 wrote:

I'm not asking anybody to trust me, I'm just saying what I see, and I have been right much more often than not. If you want to go listen to pundits go right ahead, just be aware they regularly get it completely wrong. And no, not every pundit sees it differently than me, there are quite a few analysts who have the same view I do. Tua's ok, but not great or elite.

As for the tape reference, it's just a figure of speech, goes without saying I actually mean video. Lot's of people use the word tape when they refer to watching game footage. Don't be so sensitive...

Just a tip here... this is why you rub people the wrong way here; not because of your opinion. It's ok to have an opinion, but when you pass it off with your superiority complex; nobody cares to take you seriously because you just come across as a smug arrogant jerk that's not worth actually debating/conversing with. Nothing personal; I enjoy reading your takes whether I agree or not because i do get the impression you have a clue, but to act like you're gods gift to the football world is the problem. Just... wanted to throw that out there though. You're an average fan like the rest of us; leave your ego behind and just lay out your opinion. Just my 2 cents.

:up:

"brandon27 wrote:

Just a tip here... this is why you rub people the wrong way here; not because of your opinion. It's ok to have an opinion, but when you pass it off with your superiority complex; nobody cares to take you seriously because you just come across as a smug arrogant jerk that's not worth actually debating/conversing with. Nothing personal; I enjoy reading your takes whether I agree or not because i do get the impression you have a clue, but to act like you're gods gift to the football world is the problem. Just... wanted to throw that out there though. You're an average fan like the rest of us; leave your ego behind and just lay out your opinion. Just my 2 cents.

:up:

Point well taken. I do realize I may come across that way sometimes. Really is not intentional, my apologies.

I am just a regular fan, and I really do love the dolphins, have so for 29 years now.

When I criticize the team it's from a good place. I became a dolphin fan in the era of Marino and being super bowl contenders, so I may be spoiled in that sense, but I'm just sick and tired of the endless mediocrity for the last 26 years.

Also, when I speak I don't just speak out of my ass, I actually do my research. When I comment on a draft pick I will have watched at least two games worth of footage on them before offering my opinion, and when I comment on a game I will have watched the whole game and replayed specific plays to comment on them.

It's not just casual shitting on the team for shit's sake as some may believe.

"hitman8 wrote:

I have said numerous times, and I said it when we drafted him as well. Tua is not terrible. He will not be a complete bust, but he is also not elite, his talent was magnified because he was playing on a great team in Alabama and he had the media hype behind him. He is more of a system QB, if you put the right system in place for him and surround him with a great team he will do well. However, he is not the type of QB who can overcome adversity and elevate his teams play when he is not surrounded with a great supporting cast. He is not elite in that sense. The coaches have also realized this, which is exactly why we were actively courting Watson all this time. Aside from this, he has a fragile body and is liable to get injured anytime he takes a big hit. Availability and durability is also a talent which Tua unfortunately does not have, aside from not having a great arm or great football IQ. For all of these reasons, I don't think he was worth the #5 overall pick, and I said so when we drafted him.

Below are a couple of examples of analysts having similar views regarding Tua:

First 4 minutes and 15 seconds are basically my same sentiments regarding Tua.

This old geezer referring to "tape" again. Sorry about that...

I wanted Herbert over Tua too for many of the same reasons. That being said, what's done is done. My question for you is how much do you think Tua has improved from this year to last?

"hitman8 wrote:

Point well taken. I do realize I may come across that way sometimes. Really is not intentional, my apologies.

I am just a regular fan, and I really do love the dolphins, have so for 29 years now.

When I criticize the team it's from a good place. I became a dolphin fan in the era of Marino and being super bowl contenders, so I may be spoiled in that sense, but I'm just sick and tired of the endless mediocrity for the last 26 years.

Also, when I speak I don't just speak out of my ***, I actually do my research. When I comment on a draft pick I will have watched at least two games worth of footage on them before offering my opinion, and when I comment on a game I will have watched the whole game and replayed specific plays to comment on them.

It's not just casual ****ting on the team for ****'s sake as some may believe.

I constantly remind people on message boards, Twitter and FB that folks seen to be "trolls" (constantly complaining that the team needs to improve, regardless of how well it seems to be playing) are just as much fans as people who could accept a manure truck and swearing it's roses. I'm somewhere firmly in the middle of the two. I recognize that even championship teams could be better and have no problem with fans pointing it out.

A big part of the issue with Tua is a lot of his detractors either barely recognize what he does well, while blowing up his obvious areas of opportunity as if they're deal breakers. He's playing as well as I'd hope for a second year player with arguably the worst line (and offensive coordinator(s)) in the NFL. Moving on from him before fixing what's broken around him only sets his replacement up to fail.

It's all an exercise of semantics and subjectivity. We should all be able to agree to disagree, but acknowledge when someone with a differing opinion is right. Personally, it's way too easy for me to avoid replying to strangers jonesing for a fight, so any and all opinions are welcome. The only way to really do it wrong is to make something personal.

path=%2Fr%2Fmiamidolphins%2Fcomments%2Fqzow9a%2F

Tua was raw coming out of college so I gave him a pass on his struggles during his first year. With a years worth of experience now, I expect improvement. Yes our offense is below average across the board, that will not change this year, so it will be difficult to pick up on his improvement. This is where I rely on experts who do watch film and report on players. That includes our resident experts. Looking forward to Tua's "second" season.

Don't mind my cherry picking of stats. I can't help it because there are a lot of cherries to be picked.

The amount of nfl stats i see every day is amazing lol. I have no clue on a lot of these. My eyes tell me this is accurate depiction of the difference between brisset and tua.

New Title for this thread.

"Tua is not the answer." -can someone who isnt me make that? thanks.

We would just have to put an EVEN better team around him (significantly better) than a GREAT QB who you can put less around and still see him shine at his position. *Cough* Justin Herbert looks a lot better than Tua so far aye?

(at least not the long term)

"Rouk wrote:

how quarterbacks have performed in high expected pass situations so far in 2021

kyler murray, jimmy g and matthew stafford have all dominated in these situations while the annual winner of this metric, patrick mahomes, isn't even in the top 10! pic.twitter.com/XfCDRzxCJe

— Tej Seth (@tejfbanalytics) November 22, 2021

The amount of nfl stats i see every day is amazing lol. I have no clue on a lot of these. My eyes tell me this is accurate depiction of the difference between brisset and tua.

WOW That graph is crazy. So is that guy who posted it saying he'd rather have Tua than Mahommes, Josh Allen, and Joe Burrow?

"Kud_II wrote:

New Title for this thread.

"Tua is not the answer." -can someone who isnt me make that? thanks.

We would just have to put an EVEN better team around him (significantly better) than a GREAT QB who you can put less around and still see him shine at his position. *Cough* Justin Herbert looks a lot better than Tua so far aye?

(at least not the long term)

Which would be to miss the point. People can argue all they want about Tua but he is not the reason this team is failing. In addition, one can add that of course Tua isn't the answer, because he isn't the problem, nor is the QB position. This team's problem isn't a QB problem. So no QB would be the answer. The answer lies elsewhere.

This page wouldn’t be 5 pages in if it was definitive either way. I’ve seen some things from him that have been impressive: intangibles, pocket awareness, movement in the pocket to keep plays alive and short/intermediate passing. I still don’t trust him to stay healthy for a full season and don’t think he’s got elite arm strength.

In terms of why is this team 4-7, he’s definitely part of the problem but not for the obvious reasons. The drop off in play from him to Brissett is significant. IF he had played all 11 games, I think we’d have 2 or more wins.

The biggest problem is our OL is a complete train wreck. They don’t do anything well and have 2-3 guys that shouldn’t even be starting at this point. Whether that’s talent, coaching or a combination, I don’t know.

I’d say the next biggest problem has been too many players on defense underperforming. Howard has not lived up to last year, Jones has never lived up to his big payday, AVG hasn’t played anywhere near enough to get rid of Lawson and Van Noy. We knew the offense would be a work in progress but our defense was supposed to be the strength of the team. Until this 3 game winning streak, they’ve been a bottom tier defense which is unacceptable.

“Chan Gailey is still calling the plays from the tunnel, in an effort to ruin Tua.” -TuAnon

Interesting new facts coming to light here.

"You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem."

Do you all really think Tua is the solution to a two decades search for a franchise QB? Really?

Did anyone happen to catch the Chargers/Steelers game last Sunday night? Tua was never, is not now, and will never be Justin Herbert. Period. But, Miami's FO and fan boys are gonna slobber all over a undersized, oft-injured, noodle arm lefty trying desperately to convince themselves and others that he is a franchise QB by using cherry picked stats to try and support their argument.

LMFAO!!!

"The G Man wrote:

"You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem."

Do you all really think Tua is the solution to a two decades search for a franchise QB? Really?

Did anyone happen to catch the Chargers/Steelers game last Sunday night? Tua was never, is not now, and will never be Justin Herbert. Period. But, Miami's FO and fan boys are gonna slobber all over a undersized, oft-injured, noodle arm lefty trying desperately to convince themselves and others that he is a franchise QB by using cherry picked stats to try and support their argument.

LMFAO!!!

I did. Herbert had some good throws and some terrible throws. His play was a pretty big reason why the Steelers came back from a big lead.

I don't want Tua to be Justin Herbert. I want him to be Tua.

"Kud_II wrote:

New Title for this thread.

"Tua is not the answer." -can someone who isnt me make that? thanks.

We would just have to put an EVEN better team around him (significantly better) than a GREAT QB who you can put less around and still see him shine at his position. *Cough* Justin Herbert looks a lot better than Tua so far aye?

(at least not the long term)

Don’t know about that, my only knock on Tua is availability. If he stays healthy I can see him being a real good QB, Montana and Brees didn’t need a big arm. Let’s see how he finishes the season, but the kid is improving and if he stays healthy and keeps improving, I‘m fine with him as our QB #1.

Oh herbies army is out in full force this week after pit made him look like prime vick. Herbert can be better than tua that doesn’t mean tua is trash. If anything be glad we got a qb from that draft because all the rookie qbs this season look meh. The only one getting any praise is mac jones and he’s getting praised for doing the same thing fans killed tua for last year. The reason they killed tua for that was because of the fan bases obsession with Herbert after the fact. When everyone in their mother wanted tua pre draft.

"Rouk wrote:

Oh herbies army is out in full force this week after pit made him look like prime vick. Herbert can be better than tua that doesn’t mean tua is trash. If anything be glad we got a qb from that draft because all the rookie qbs this season look meh. The only one getting any praise is mac jones and he’s getting praised for doing the same thing fans killed tua for last year. The reason they killed tua for that was because of the fan bases obsession with Herbert after the fact. When everyone in their mother wanted tua pre draft.

And Herbert still almost threw the game away.

Then he hits a wide open receiver without any pressure to win the game.

Herbert is a fine quarterback. If I were a Charger fan I would be excited about his future. However, he is not where he needs to be yet. He still has a lot to clean up in his game.

I feel like people bring up Herbert because they think if they talk about it enough we will all go back in time and Herbert will magically be a Dolphin.

You do not need to say "yeah but he's not Herbert". WE KNOW ALREADY.