Thomas numbers: 13 yrs
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomZa01.htm
1100 tackles
7 Pro Bowls
5 All pro
21 Int 4 TD
Urlacher numbers:13 yrs
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/U/UrlaBr00.htm
1040 tackles
8 Pro Bowls
4 All Pro
22 Int 2 TD
Lewis numbers: 17 yrs
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiRa00.htm
1562 tackles
13 Pro Bowls
8 All Pro
31 Int 2 TD
These three were contemporaries, they played in the same era against similar competition. All three were key to their teams success. All three are compared to Hall of Famers like Singletary, Ham, Lambert, Derrick Thomas and Buonocotti.
So why not Zach???
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It shouldn't come that surprising. Since the vast majority of HoF voters are writers for their local papers, it would be easy to see why if you don't have name recognition, or as a previous poster put it "lack of flare", Zach would fall between the cracks, and not even be finalist, which all bias aside, is ludicrous.
I personally think the committee needs more former players casting their votes. I mean, they are the ones that were competing against these players, and not just sitting on their couch watching highlights on Sunday Night during the prime of these guy's careers.
I think most Dolphin fans can agree, that even though we are Anti-Brady, and we won't shed a tear when he breaks his leg tonight (crosses fingers), i will always have respect for him for writing that letter to HoF comittee explaining why Jason Taylor should be in a HoF. Because that is a competitor against a competitor respect no sportswriter will ever understand. I hope more former players/coaches, whether it be former Dolphins, or players/coaches that played against Zach will speak up so he gets the recognition he deserves.Puka-head likes this. -
Zach will get in. Those two had to get in first. Both were stunning, game changing LBs and defined their eras. Thomas, though just as productive and effective, was/is/always will be the underdog, so it's of no surprise he'll get his nod at a later time as well.
Steve-Mo, jdallen1222 and Puka-head like this. -
I love Zach but I’m sorry Urlacher was better. DPOY award in 2005, runner up in 2001...there is no former DPOY winner not in the HOF. Had more playoff success than Zach, better blitzer, better in coverage. Sorry, but this isn’t much of a conversation for me. There’s a reason he gets in on the first ballot....he found ways to get to the playoffs and a SB in spite of his horrible QB situation. Kuechenberg being left out of the HOF is a bigger issue for me than Thomas.
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First of all, the DPOY award proves nothing. Zach based on numbers was every bit as deserving. It is a popularity contest like Pro Bowls. He didn't find ways to get to the playoffs or SB, that is patently absurd. SBs and playoffs aren't even a QB stat let alone a LB stat.
The numbers prove Zach was better. In fact, based on Urlacher's physical attributes it should be a knock on him and he couldn't produce more than Zach.Puka-head likes this. -
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Secondly, DPOY awards like an MVP or OPOY award mean plenty. You can call it a popularity contest but you dont get nominated unless youre a beast. The idea you completely dismiss that is patently absurd.EverFin, Steve-Mo, Puka-head and 1 other person like this. -
It's also a damn shame that, not only did Kuech not make it (again), but no OL were selected for this class either. -
Either Urlacher elevated his team to a SB or it was a team effort. And frankly, if his production stats were the same as Zach's, then it proves it was a team effort, else Zach's production would have elevated his team tot he SB too.
That's why this stance is so bizarre and makes no sense.Puka-head likes this. -
Zach will get in but he will be an old man when he gets in... guy was overlooked his entire career snd the HOF will treat him the same.
dolphin25, jdallen1222 and Puka-head like this. -
Again, this isnt my opinion. Apparently hundreds of voters agree with me. As do the people who nominate DPOY candidates since Urlacher was nominated 2x and ZT 0. If Urlacher had been a Dolphin, you'd see things differently. Its not a bizarre stance unless you consider it bizarre for the fact it isnt pro dolphin. -
Tape, stats...those are facts. The facts say Zach was every bit the LB that Urlacher was. They produced the same but were recognized differently. That's all that's been proven by DPOY.Puka-head likes this. -
Part of this has been that since Zach was a 5th rounder he was consistently undervalued in the first 3 or 4 years of his career, compared to Lewis and Urlacher who came into the league with “watch this guy - he’s the new best thing ever” on their resumes.
Another thing is that stats in the NFL generally track positive plays. My eyeballs told me that Lewis and Urlacher gave up more negative plays than Zach because they were more aggressive, but unless you do a snap by snap review of their entire careers there isn’t a good way to find that information. Until the NFL starts tracking things like missed tackles and blown assignments we’re never going to get the full picture.
Finally the hall of fame favors the spectacular players. If you loom at Buonconti and Butkus, they also produced at very similar levels, but Butkus gets the homage because his plays looked more spectacular. I remeber seeing an jnterview with Buonconti and he said to the effect that when Butkus hit you, you fell down the way Butkus wanted you to fall, when I hit you, you still fell over.Puka-head likes this. -
Thomas: 17 ints, 20 ½ sacks
Urlacher: 4 TDs, 41 ½ sacksPuka-head likes this. -
And no, youre not qualified at all.Fin-O likes this. -
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2. You went from complaining that the DPOY award meant nothing (still laughing at that), to trying to say that Zach should be in over Urlacher based on draft status and lack of physical gifts (never mind that Urlacher was a safety at ASU), to trying to say he’s comparable to Dannell Ellerbe in his accomplishments. That’s the very definition of shifting the argument. And it’s a joke.
3. No you’re not. -
2. Huh? DPOY does mean nothing because it is a popularity contest like the Pro Bowl. It is voted on by sports writers...you know, guys like Armando.
2a. Urlacher 6'4" 258lb | Thomas 5'11" 242lb. Just stop.
2b. Ellerbe lifted his team to the playoffs and SB, just like Urlacher, except they actually won and since MLB is team lifting position now...
2c. No joke
3. Yes, yes I am. I guess you think DPOY is awarded by people with football degrees or something...Last edited: Feb 5, 2018 -
2. Lol, again with the size of the player. So i guess Doug Flutie shoukd one day be in the HOF ahead of Tom Brady on account of being 5'8" or whatever? Your argument is just to argue and makes no sense. Youre comparing Ellerbe to Urlacher.. what the hell is wrong with you? :jump:
3. Youre not at all qualified to give an opinion on this as youve shown no objectivity over the years. If its no pro dolphin, it is wrong in your eyes. -
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I put the parts YOU said in this quotes and my take outside those quotes. That means I didn't attribute too you anything I added, only what you actually said.
Inability to comprehend...indeed. -
I don’t know why you are talking about backup QBs at all. Unless you’re trying to say that Rex Grossman and Kyle Orion were as bad as Cleo Lemon and worse then Jay Fiedler? I saw the quotes, they just have no relevance to the rest of this conversation. Inability to comprehend....indeed.
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