Sad part is Channing Crowder does not want to leave either, But he is being made out as a thug and idiot because he wants a decent contract. :pity:

 

Yeah, well the difference is that one is a top-notch player and the other isnt.

I am not calling him out as a Thug OR an Idiot, and I dont blame him for wanting a bigger contract, I just wouldnt twist that hand too far if I was him.

If he comes back to a "Reasonable" contract, say within the top 25-35 linebackers in the league, so be it. If he wants ANYTHING more than that.... so long.


As for V-Carey, the feeling was mutual big guy :up: I didnt want you to go anywhere either :hi5:

 

I'm sure it's true, but what else is he going to say at this point?

 

Vernon Carey was so top notch that the first thing we did in the draft was replace him with Jake Long and move him to RT. Now I like Vernon Carey but he was not the leader of the offense like Crowder was with the Defense. He did not call out Line assignments while Crowder was calling all the defensive plays. I am not going to sit hear and tell everyone that Channing Crowder is the best MLB in football cause he is not, But I think he is better than most FA MLB's. No he didn't make alot of huge plays, But he made alot of tackles and always seemed to be around the ball. He is also way better than Akin Ayodole and not even close comparing him to Reggie Torbor.



Congrats to Vernon Carey we are happy to have you back

 

Quote:
I'm also told he and Jake Long are the best of friends, and Long brought Carey with him to Hawaii to thank him for all the mentoring he did, which helped Long reach the Pro Bowl.


Says an awful lot about the maturity of the young man, I like him more and more each day.:up:

 

I don't really agree with that. Long was just a move to improve the overall line and the best value at the #1 pick. Carey was an above average LT I'd say, but his overall game is more suited to the right side.

Also I like Crowder. Wish we would resign him, I have no idea what kind of money he is asking for of course.

 

Nice to know Carey wanted to stay, thats good for us. Stability on that line will go a long ways. Also, you just have to love reading that Jake took him to the pro bowl with him for all the mentoring and teaching he did. Thats a bigtime classy move by Jake IMO. I just love reading about how this team has come together

 

Whatever anybody feels about Carey he has been a good role model for the other players. He has stayed quiet and hasn't been a distraction. Even when he faced the possibility of Miami not resigning him he didn't make any negative comments to the press that I heard about.
Carey was not a great left tackle and probably at best an average left tackle but he was better than anything else we tried there in the last few years. He came through in the clutch when we badly needed a left tackle.
If I remember correctly when he was moved to left tackle he said he wasn't comfortable at that position, yet he quietly took the move and did the best he could. To me, that alone speaks volumes about his integrity. I still think he has the abilities to be an all pro right tackle if he has a steady guard who can hold his own lined up next to him. But these are just my opinions.

 

Yeah, a big guy staying healthy is a very important attribute as well... You can't overlook that! I hope that Donald Thomas's injury was only an abhoration because he adds alot to our line. And add in Jason Brown and our running game should become intimidating!

 

man I hope we can land J. Brown. Our Oline would be set, and Satele would be a valuable backup at C and G.

 

Problem is, IMO, is that he wants to be paid like an elite ILB and he's not. He's not a game-changer. He misses too many big plays. Yes, he's stout against the run, but his too many tackles seem to be 2-3 yds downfield, where more should be at the LOS...

He'll be the cream of the ILB FA crop soon as Scott is signed, but that doesn't make him elite. And while we don't know what he's asking for, it's apparently more than what the Trio seems to place his value at. There's nothing wrong with them not wanting to sell the farm on a good player versus the chance to upgrade to a better player...

Of course this is all predicated on what you are referring to as a 'decent' contract...we haven't heard much one way or another...

 

Who is linking thuggery with a jhe desire for a decent contract? Name it. Provide a link.

 

Do you know what Crowder is asking for? Do you know what the team offered? If you have this information, please share. If you don't then how could you have an opinion as to who is being more reasonable?

 

Vern and Jake are like Majellen their so Gellin'

 

Come on Skeet.

Decisions on players and their value to a team go on every day.
THese guys get paid so much damn money to play a game that they better produce. If they don't produce up to expectations the team will find talent elsewhere.

Dosen't mean the player is being villified because of it.

The Carey situation was clearly a good move.
You've got a player that is talented, willing to work with others to make them better and a player that really wants to be a Dolphin.
Many players today could give a crap where they play.

 

No I have no idea what they offered him what so ever. However he said he only wants to be paid like a starting MLB. He never said anything like he wants to be paid like a Superstar. I guess we won't know until he signs

I don't think he wants to be paid like an elite LB. He is a very good LB and should be paid according to that.

113 tackles in 15 games is not producing? I mean I have a hard time thinking that he did not produce and help us to a much better defense. Unless we get Bart Scott I doubt we find much better else where. Akin Ayodele had 34 less Solo tackles than Channing Crowder so if we are talking about getting the guys who don't produce out than we should start with him. Crowder was better than him all year long and Lets not forget Crowder is only 25 years old.

 

Well if we all followed that rule, there wouldn't be much of a message board right now, would there?

 

He might be a better player but one could argue Crowder played better last year ...

 

can u blame him for wanting to play his whole life in Miami?

 

To be honest, I think Channing needs a change of scenery Skeet, like Pennington leaving the Jets sometimes things just go stale.

 

People, myself included, post opinions on players abilities all the time. We also have opinions on whether the team paid to much or too little for players. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, it's just that if you want that opinion to be respected it should be based on some knowledge. I just don't see how anybody can say that Crowder wasn't offered a decent contract without knowing what was offered. Or how somebody can characterize what a player is asking for without knowing what they are asking for.

 

I thought Carey played better than crowder last year, no question he's more durable.

Crowder made lots of tackles but which linebacker of his type doesn't. The position requires you too. Where you want to see a guy perform at that position is being good in coverage, and getting to the qb when the scheme calls for you to blitz, which in my opinion crowder was terrible at.

I don't recall a high frequency of him tackling RB's on the edge behind the line of scrimmage, deflecting passes across the middle, intimiading WR's who enter his area.

Was he sufficient, absolutely, did he have a couple big hits, absolutley. Did he reek havoc on short passing games...no, did he get to the qb when asked...almost never, does he stay healthy...not yet, did he intercept the odd pass...no.

A player like crowder is solid, go through the motions and when in the line up won't make many mistakes. But he should be lucky the way this regime looks to constantly upgrade players he's seen in their future, if he's asking for anything more than what they are willing to offer its not worth it. You need gamechangers at LB, not guys who make tackles 5 yards from the line of scrimmage. Since Crowder has never been a game changer it would be stupid for any team to pay him like one.

Just my opinion. Good player, not worth decent money but would be great to keep around at a low cap hit.

 

Exactly. You gotta have some information by which you can base your opinion on. For instance, we can all debate the quality of Crowder's play because we watch him play. We can't make a decision as to whether Crowder is getting a "fair" offer, cause we don't know what, if anything, he's been offered.

 

Just in case some of you missed his interview right after he signed...i'll recap his statements.

Sounded genuinely serious about wanting to stay here, said that he spoke to parcells a couple of times after the season and parcells told him that he wanted him here.

said that he had a decent year considering the circumstances that surrounded him, said the two years ago was his best year...Personally, iam not sure how that happens but whatever.

Said hes at 360lbs right now......he said thats his normal weight seeing that he played at 350 last year {wow},no big deal to him.

he said that hes gonna work on his diet this year cause were tryin to win a champioship around here.. jmo, but he should of been workin on his diet the moment he stepped foot in the NFL, big boy needs to train like a professional in the offseason. His quote was he's gonna lay off the chicken wings now".

Jake, Vernon, Donald = Big boys boys for the future.....if we add a jason brown were gonna be the biggest.. I would like mr. mack or mr. caldwell myself

 

I don't quite think this is the same at all. However he may be better suited for a 4-3 defense.

 

That much I agree with. I think he could be one of the top 4-3 MLB's in the league.

 

Let's give him the current contract of Demeco Ryans or Curtis Lofton then.:shifty:

 

Don't you love when players say these things AFTER they've been resigned? :lol:

 

Glad Vernon is back. It should make for a good line next year. I wonder if there's any chance of the Phins still picking up a good OT in this OT-deep draft, then kicking Carey inside to RG.

Probably not.

Regarding Channing's value, let's not forget that he had big question marks about the health of his knees coming out of college and this year, for the first time, it seems like knee problems are cropping up and costing him playing time.

The future of Channing's knees comes into the discussion on big long-term contracts.

 

I do, Channing needs to leave his comfort zone Skeet, a place like New Orleans would be perfect for him IMO.

And I would not complain if we resigned him, however he may just need the shakeup that moving on will bring him.

 

I like Crowder alot. I wish he'd stay too. he;s not a thug or and idiot. The only thing he is guilty of is thinking he is worth more than he is.

 

that's odd.. I don't recall him being called either one of those here..

 

Exactlty brother, your right, he was'nt called that at all around here, i think pretty much we all love the guy cause we know he bleeds the aqua, but i love the way you jump in and squash it, even if thats just one opinion, thats how nasty rumors get started and people and families get hurt.

No offense to you brother Skeet, but generalizations like that bother the heck out of me, i'am always cognisant and protective of our own..

Please dont take this the wrong way Skeeter, i know you didnt have any bad intentions.

 

I don't buy that either.

Look, I don't think there is anything wrong with calling a player avg. if you really think that's what he is and you can arguably back it up.

It's not a personal attack on a player it's just sayin it like it is.
There are an entire range of players in the NFL. From Great to avg. all the way down to players that are simply over their head being in the NFL. That's a fact.

I think Crowder lacks quick enough natural instincts to ever reach a top level LB. He also lacks the dedication of film study (by his own admission) to overcome that lack of top level instincts. He's still a solid player and you can do worse but were talking about a team here that's going to have to probably pony up more money than your avg. solid but unspectacular LB is really worth on the field. It's just the way it is. You are judged on your talent and play.

Maybe they just don't feel Crowder fits well in the 3-4.
That paying him even "basic starter money".... whatever that is...... just wouldn't make sense for them.
I just don't see a problem in that.

I thought the arguments that Satele not being a good fit for our system was overplayed. Well apparently I'm wrong and with all the confirmation that we do want to go after Brown it looks that Satele is kind of miscast here. I don't think that means in any way that he's being disrespected or done wrong.

What happened here IMO, is you've got Skeet that is a rabid Gator fan losing overall perspective because he's loyal to the Gator program and a fan of athletes coming out of there. Nothing wrong with that but it's clouded many a fans judgement before.

 

The same thing could be said about Yeremiah Bell as well. Last year was his only year healthy and he is going to be 31 years old in little over a week. However we need to sign him to a huge deal? I don't understand that

I don't know about him going to New Orleans is perfect, But he would be better suited for a 4-3.

No reason to complain if resign him because he is a good player in this league.

I may have used bad wording for which I apologize. He has been taking quite the beating around here.

That is some Bull! Just because I am a Gator fan that does not cloud my judgement. I think some Gator players can play and some can't. Does it mean if a person went to a rival school I think they will stink? No because I try to see there talent and make a judgement of my own. I think Channing Crowder can play football and it does not matter where he went to college. He was a leader for us and came 8 tackles away from leading the team. Is he great No he is not, But he is pretty darn good IMO. Now I truly believe that he was no where near the problem and much more apart of the answer. However he may not be suited to play a 3-4 as well as some others But I know he was the 2nd best LB on our team and is only 25 yrs old.

 

I believe that Crowder and Bell were offered identical three year deals. I don't know what the dollars were. I don't know if that was the same contract that Crowder accepted or if the Dolphins went up.

 

Thanks for the info. I know Drew Rosenhaous (sp) was looking for around 5 mil a year for Bell

 

we signed Cary first ... U

 

Well, I guess I was certainly fooled. I thought Crowder would be the last guy we'd re-sign... I hope the money was 'decent' tho...