Ive said before and i'll say it again,i do not trust vonnie holliday...keep ur mouth shut, get paid and play hard, thats ur job vonnie, no one cares whether you understand the move or not.

 

Its called rebuilding Vonnie, and your right it doesn't help you now. But in case you missed it we went 1-15 last year and aren't exactly going to the SB this year.

 

"pull a rabbit out of a hat or have something up their sleeve?"

LMAO.

Do they need to spell it out for him?

REBUILD + VET THAT DIDN'T WANT TO BE HERE x VALUE OF DRAFT PICKS FOR A REBUILDING TEAM = VERY SMART TRADE.

He has to know this, he just dosen't like it.
What can we get for Holliday? :lol:

 

That's the first thing I thought of while reading his remarks. :hi5:

 

Vonnie may well be next given his age. He better not have slipped much in his play.

 

seriously maybe a 4th or 5th rd pick for holiday, so he can sit around and figure it out.

 

Heres a thought....JT was demanding a trade and was going to hold out.....

 

Personally, we should have let the Giants talk to Taylor, if we did we would have a 2nd and a 5th next year from the Saints, because you know Taylor would have loved to play in NY with the media coverage.

That was a huge mistake by Parcells

 

There is an old saying in Poker, if you look around the table and cannot find the sucker in the first five minutes, it's probably you.

Err..Vonnie...you may not be around to discover what it is like not having #99 out on the field with you...

 

Meh, he's a lineman.

 

"Huge" overstatement IMO.

The only diffference in my mind is between a 5th this draft and a 6th next, but that slide becomes better value when you consider the Giants are the defending Super Bowl champs and the Redskins have a new coach, system, and several question marks. The Skins pick could be a much better selection in the draft.
I suppose the real question that everyone would have to answer is who's 2nd rounder would be the higher pick?

 

It would have been the Saints picks, not the Giants, and a 5th is better than a 6th.

 

Even in the 3-way trade scenerio, I still like the Skins pick in the 2nd round over the Saints next draft.

 

has he been living under a rock? I mean really, come on dude. Didn't he notice that #99 wasn't practicing with him at the OTAs and MiniCamps? And to think that Jeff Ireland didn't run this past aging vet Vonnie Holliday before sealing the deal. We could have got a 1st if we included Vonnie. Think he could understand that?

 

Vonnie's pissed because he knows now that the plan isn't to win THIS year, and he aint got that many left.

 

Im gonna pull my hair out!!!! Parcells is not the GM!!!!! I am not cool with giving a free pass to Ireland just because of who his boss is. All credit good and bad must be placed at the appropriate level.

 

gee, i wonder where he got that mentality?

 

If you read all the reports, Parcells did the trade, Ireland was not even mentioned.

 

Personally I'm not sure how Vonnie fits in the new scheme either...

 

This is what I've been afraid of. I still think he needs to let every one do their jobs and him butt out and worry about his own.

 

Any time a team trades its best player, the Owner is going to be the one who pulls the trigger....this situation was no different.

 

But, he's not the owner. He was hired to do a job, just like the others.
I'm still just skeptical about him.

 

:lol:

Funny and true.

 

Yeh, I agree. The coach doesnt trade players usually. He does usually have a say or an opinion. But thats all.

 

I think everyone is in fact doing their jobs. But I also think that maybe Parcells wasn't necessarily forthcoming with Dallas in order to hire Ireland.

 

Its understandable to be skeptical. I mean he has a terrible track record...oh wait....:wink2:



I think to this point he's done decent. Taylor for a potential high second round pick is not a bad deal at all, IMO. especially for a player who has one or two yrs left in him.

 

I hope he turns out to be great for the team. I've just been worried since he came into the picture. He's always seemed to be all about "self".

 

Who Parcells?

 

I know what you're saying and I believe Parcells probably does think alot of himself. I'm sure, though during the hiring process, Ireland, Sparano and the lot went in with their eyes wide open. So I really don't worry too much about that part of it.

 

From being a little boy and having a desire to win.

I don't see why fans get so upset when players want to win.

 

I don't think fans get upset when players want to win. I think fans get upset when players sign contracts for big money then halfway through the contract decide that they dont like that team anymore.

 

The only interesting thing I found from that was his mentioning of the Chambers trade in 2007. I'd just never really heard any players comment on that trade before...but Holliday seems to suggest that it was indeed a very disheartening event.

It's even easier to see why the offense would have so completely fallen apart when, even after the Chambers trade and after losing their starting QB, on top of it they lost Ronnie Brown.

 

JT was a third round pick. We got that great play from him for all these years and at the end of his career we got a second and a sixth for him, substantially more than we invested in him. Sounds like a winner to me.

I hear Vonnie. If I were a player and lost a teammate like JT (was), I'd be upset, too, instead of thinking like an investor.

 

I disagree with this on two counts.

First off, we know that they discussed Jeremy Shockey for Jason Taylor straight up. What we don't know is whether the Giants would have pulled the trigger on that, ESPECIALLY in light of the offer of a 2nd and 5th for Shockey from the Saints. Once that compensation from the Saints starts to look like a serious possibility...the Giants now have to decide whether Jason Taylor is worth a 2nd and 5th and you're entirely discounting the possibility (and indeed probability) that the Giants would have said NO, Taylor is not worth a 2nd and 5th in hand. In a three way trade, they may have taken the 2nd and 5th from the Saints and then offered Miami their own 3rd.

Second, sure...a 5th is worth more than a 6th. But, even if the 2nd rounder is the Saints' pick...there has to be a decision made, at some point, whether you think the Saints will pick higher or the Redskins will pick higher.

The Redskins rattled off four straight before losing in the playoffs, finished 9-7 in the toughest division in football, and by all means they look like they're set to have some good offense. But, that's the bull case. There's definitely a bear case to be made. Their corners are full of age (Springs), injury issues (Rogers) and inconsistency (Smoot). They now have two bonafied (and old) pass rushers, but neither can stop the run and so they're probably going to have to develop a rotation that involves either Carter or Taylor being off the field a set percentage of time while a run stuffing specialist (say, a defensive tackle) comes on at LDE for them. That can go either way, it can minimize the impact of Carter's and Taylor's presence by keeping them off the field, or it can keep them fresh to where they're all the more deadly when they are on the field together. Cornelius Griffin, their best DT, is also old. They don't really have another good one. The safety position opposite Landry doesn't look good. But the biggest bear cases to be made really surround the two most important positions on the team...Head Coach, and Quarterback. There are a lot of folks that don't have much confidence in Jim Zorn and I'm one of them, even though I do think he is a good offensive mind. He doesn't have a heavy hand, he seems to let his players walk all over him, there are definitely times when it all seems too big for him...I mean, where have we seen that before? Then at the QB position, I'm not ready to give up on Jason Campbell but some people definitely are...and that four game win streak to end 2007 happened mostly when Todd Collins came in for Campbell.

You look at the Saints and IF our front office actually were forced to decide whether they thought the Saints or the Redskins would be picking earlier...which is still a big if...then I know where the comparisons may have started and ended. Jim Zorn, Jason Campbell, and the NFC East...versus Sean Payton, Drew Brees, and the NFC South. To our front office, there was likely no comparison...keeping in mind that our people are likely to be a lot more partial toward Sean Payton as an NFL head coach than Jim Zorn.

There's a definite bull case to be made for the Saints this season, especially now that they've added Jeremy Shockey, Sedrick Ellis, Jonathan Vilma, Randall Gay and Tracy Porter to the mix. Robert Meachem will probably make a much bigger impact in his second year compared with the first. Then they play in the NFC South where they have at least two easy games against the Falcons. The Bucs are all over the map from year to year. The Panthers could be OK but their success hinges almost completely on Jake Delhomme's recovering elbow. That's not to be compared with the NFC East where you've got the Super Bowl champs, a team that was even better than them during the regular season, and an Eagles team that is probably comparable to the Panthers, which should be the Saints' toughest competition in the NFC South.

 

To add to CKs bear case for the Redskins....they lost Gregg Williams. One of the best DCs in the league. The defense is going to take a big step back this year.

 

Well, I can't blame him. If I did, I'd have to blame an awful lot of other people as well who happen to dislike their jobs. Of course Holliday is upset about this rebuilding project - I'd throw him out in a heartbeat if he wasn't. In fact, the only veterans worth keeping during a rebuilding project are the ones who are critical of it - they want to win and they want to win now and that's exactly the kind of players I want on my team. Holliday knows darn well that he isn't going to be around when this rebuilding work pays off so of course he's upset about the fact that he's probably going to play on a bad team this year. This, however, doesn't mean that he's going to play bad. Fans want the players on their team to be something that no one is - least of all themselves.

 

But players don't get upset when they sign a contract and the team dumps them? It happens. this is a game, entertainment, and a business. it's just the facts of life.

but then, you can have your view of it, and I can have mine, at the end of the day, we just want our team to win (well most of us :yes:)

 

I'm not concerned about this because when push comes to shove, Vonnie Holliday doesn't have the stones to stand up to Tony Sparano, let alone Bill Parcells, and be the focal point of an anti-regime clique. Jason Taylor did have the stones to do that, and he had the locker room pull for it, too...especially since Zach usually fell right in line with him.

The only player I think with the stones to blaspheme publicly, even privately, on a consistent basis...would be Joey Porter...and I think he lost his locker room pull when he torpedoed Cameron so publicly last year. Even if Cameron wasn't popular, he stepped over the line and I think everyone knows it, I think he knows it. He's been very quiet now. I don't think he has the pull to rally anyone toward him. Vonnie might, but like I said he lacks the nerve.

Tony Sparano needs not fear anyone on the roster anymore. For the most part they're all either scared of the boogeyman (Bill Parcells) and eager to do anything to save their jobs, or they're veterans of the Parcells program and know enough to keep their traps shut, their heads down, working hard as possible.