First of all, welcome to the forum.
Sometimes the system flags certain threads for admin approval and, well.....I was asleep at the wheel. :couch:

At any rate, your thread is now approved and open for discussion. :)

 

"#2..engage.."

17 million or so under the cap, we maybe can sign one name, then 2-3 fillin pieces.

I really like fmr packers say Donald Lee, B Jackson, and Darryn Colledge.

 

If we give any of those players even close to that kind of money, I'll be very upset.

 

Edwards I could possibly get behind, but that's it.

 

I'd rather stick to Bradshaw, Lawson, and James Jones or cheaper roster fillers.

Then restructure Soliai's contract.

 

-cannot restructure Big Palu's contract he is franchise tagged

-we have only so much cap space 3 Starters won't fit under the cap number we have.

 

Ray Edwards, Brandon Jackson, Chris Baker, and a QB(havent decided who I want yet)

 

I expect a push for a pass rusher (Edwards), a RB (DWill, AB, RB, or DS) and to sign a QB. I don't know whether the QB will be a big signing though. That will depend on how things shake out. If Orton or Palmer are cut loose I could see them as prime targets. I don't think we will (or should) trade for them. If not then I expect a Tavaris Jackson or Vince Young. I also expect a G, but not a Mankins or any other high priced guy. I don't expect that we'll pursue a #2 WR candidate. The rest will be UDFA types.

 

Friend Playmaker76: welcome to the forum. interesting predictions

however

1) maybe Edwards, but we're very strong along the defensive line, they might be more likely to pursue a LB or DB. personally, I don't think they add anything through free agency on defense.
2) McNabb would work for me if there was a very reasonable deal struck. my personal likes in free agency are Vince Young or Carson Palmer should he shake loose of the Bengals. any veteran QB with an upside, eager to prove himself with a new team, that would not break the bank or compromise the next draft, would do for me. competition is the elixir of success
3) don't think we need another running back. I think we'll re-sign Ronnie or/and Ricky @ bargain prices & the stable is complete. the running game was & remains a problem until proven differently due to our offensive line's inability to consistently win the scrimmage, opening holes for the running backs.
4) I thing the WR Corp is flush & the addition of James Jones will not improve the game. last season we had a passing problem not a receiving crisis.

I believe our priority will be an elite, pro-bowl caliber left guard to complete the offensive line.

 

You can sign them to a long term deal before the season starts even if you tagged them.


If we give Donovan McNabb a 4 year $30 million contract, Reggie Bush a $4 year 25 million contract, and James Jones $25 million dollars, just kill me now.

McNabb is too old to consider signing him for 4 years. McNabb may be worth 2 years at maybe $3 mil/year. I would also disagree with your assessment of Jones. He's not really explosive at 13.6 YPC and in the games I watched. He's a ball dropper, and he's not the most physical guy. He's not worth the money.

 

To this day I remain torn on the QB issue. It's not because there are so many good options necessarily but really so many flawed options, each seeming as flawed as the next. One day I'll lean toward McNabb, another day Orton, another day Vince Young, another day Hasselbeck, another day I'll just throw my hands up and say get someone unproven like Caleb Hanie, Drew Stanton or Tarvaris Jackson, which is a de facto handing of the job to Henne. The only common denominator in my feelings on the QB position has been that trading a 2nd round pick for Carson Palmer would probably end up the most effective/efficient option...but it's also the least likely to happen because Mike Brown is so stubborn and because I'm not sure Carson and his family want to be so far East.

Let's just say it'll be interesting how the whole thing unfurls. Since I'm often so negative, I'll say something positive, and true, about each of the guys I named:

1. Carson Palmer has not 'lost it' and his issues in 2010 appeared (to me) to be related to a stale offensive system, lack of ground game, bad chemistry with Terrell Owens (who arrived only just before the season started) and bad chemistry with rookies (who even if they're talented, run around like chickens with their heads cut off at times). He showed he can still challenge defenses in effective ways like a premium QB by hitting defenses in the honey holes between the zones against shell coverage. He has an aggressive mindset, and is very accurate.

2. Donovan McNabb has not 'lost it' physically, either. Looking at tape of him you'd have to check his right hand for powder burns, he guns some of those throws up the field so strongly. He's only one season removed from a year with near 4000 passing yards and a 91 QB Rating. Santana Moss was his only effective weapon in the passing game, as even Chris Cooley seemed to take a step back and not create the separation he used to. He's an accurate deep thrower, but his receivers outside of Moss weren't very RAC-friendly. He's the kind of guy that needs a real pass catching threat at tailback, like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy in Philadelphia, but in Washington they asked him to make due with Keiland Williams and Ryan Torain. He never looked comfortable. He could gun the bull up the field on a skinny post to Joey Galloway or Anthony Armstrong, hit him in the gut, and they would not gain yards after the catch. When he did the same thing with Jeremy Maclin and DeSean Jackson, they did. Kyle Shanahan also ran the ball less than Mike Martz, something ridiculous like 35%. You could sense that McNabb and Kyle were at odds. If Miami grabbed an Ahmad Bradshaw or even Reggie Bush/Darren Sproles, I think McNabb would like throwing to that back along with Brandon Marshall, Brian Hartline and Davone Bess. He also has the deep accuracy to maximize Edmond Gates' impact on the offense (he'd average 20 yards per catch), and actually hit Brian Hartline on some of those deep verticals that he keeps getting open on (somehow). Hartline's only a 4.50 speedster, the less speed you have the more accurate your QB has to be deep to hit him. McNabb has the deep accuracy to hit Hartline.

3. Matt Hasselbeck still shows flashes of the elite level passer he used to be, just not often enough. Is that because of age? Or is that because he has nobody around him? There's no Walter Jones protecting his blind side anymore. I can't bring myself to believe this Mike Williams reclamation story. Ben Obomanu, Deon Butler and Brandon Stokley were his other receivers. The ground game wasn't very effective. Yet he still won the division, brought his team to the playoffs, upset the Saints and then put on a good showing (offensively) against the Bears. When I watch him, 90% of the time I still see that great passer he used to be. And then 10% of the time you're like, wtf was that? That sounds to me like putting too much all on his shoulders, and so he gets reckless with the ball. He could do with a change of scenery to a team that boasts Brandon Marshall and some other solid weapons and a good pass protecting offensive line. He's still crafty, and knows how to make plays against defenses. If you're able to take the pressure off him with an effective ground game, you might see him bounce back.

4. Kyle Orton might be the most accurate deep thrower available in this market, and he hasn't exactly had help from elite level receivers. His accuracy is spot on in many games, and he's able to loft the ball with great placement where only the receiver can grab it. If you protect him, he finds the weaknesses in a defense consistently, and can get the ball out of his hands. For two years straight he's achieved 85+ QB Ratings. He would come to Miami having already learned the ins and outs of Josh McDaniels' offense, which I would imagine to be a close cousin of Brian Daboll's offense given their shared roots in New England. He also knows how to use Brandon Marshall, and knows how to rely on him. When Brandon Marshall walked out of Denver, he didn't have a high opinion of Orton. I won't get into details and start up old arguments, but suffice it to say a year later I think Marshall's appreciation for Orton has grown.

5. Caleb Hanie, Drew Stanton and Tarvaris Jackson are all unproven, but they have shown promise. All three are consistently good preseason performers. Scoff at that if you will, but the fact of the matter is I've compiled preseason data from 2006 onward of as many QBs with significant recent regular season game play as I could think of (about 46 of them), excluding rookie preseasons, and there was a clear difference between those with 85+ Ratings in preseason, and those with sub-85 Ratings. The only guy with sub-85 Ratings in preseason that is situated nicely and referred to (by his team) as a franchise QB is Matt Cassel. All the others had 85+ Ratings. The study doesn't suggest that if you consistently perform well in preseason you'll also perform well in the regular season, but it does suggest that if you can't even consistently perform well in the preseason then the chances are good you can't perform consistently in the regular season either, as preseason should be easier. Anyway, just saying, it's a good sign for Hanie, Stanton and Jackson. Hanie to me showed a lot of mental toughness in the NFC Championship Game, where he was more effective moving the offense and scoring touchdowns than Jay Cutler. He only played one quarter and he started off with the game almost out of reach, and finished the game driving down the field for a hopeful game-tying touchdown. What I liked was not only the accuracy and poise he showed as Dom Capers sent every single exotic blitz/coverage he could at Hanie to try and rattle the young guy, Clay Matthews buzzing in his ear the whole time, but also how he could make a critical mistake with the interception returned for a TD by B.J. Raji who surprisingly dropped into a zone, and then come right back firing the ball aggressively and effectively for a touchdown to make up for the one he just gave up. That's character. His skill set reminds me of Kyle Orton's, but I think he has more ability to make throws under pressure after having to break his stance. Meanwhile Drew Stanton reminds me a lot of Chad Henne in the throws he's been asked to make and the way he plays, though with a little less arm and a LOT more feet. His feet are a weapon. Would you ever ask Chad Henne to execute a shotgun QB draw up the middle on the goal line? No. Would you ask Drew Stanton to do it and expect success? Yes. Does that play ALWAYS seem to work against the Dolphins? Yes, but I suppose that's off topic. With his feet if he started to develop a feel for drawing the defense close to him and then lofting the ball to outlets, he would be a dangerous player to play against. He does enough execution wise of normal throws up the field that if you spice in his feet and add the ability to execute screens better, he could be an interesting quarterback. Tarvaris Jackson on the other hand knows all about drawing the defense to him and then hitting an outlet against the grain for big results. That's one of the better aspects of his game. His deep accuracy is mediocre. If he were throwing to a worse player than Sidney Rice deep, some of those balls might've been intercepted, but most of them he gives his receiver a fighting chance to catch which is a good thing. He obviously can run. Over the last three years I forget the exact number but he's had something like a 90+ regular season QB Rating...so he's shown he can perform in the NFL in the regular season.

6. Vince Young did far better as a passer in 2010 than I ever imagined he would when he came out of Texas. He definitely showed that he was starting to get it. He's got a very quick release and he hit defenses suddenly, and where it hurt. His arm strength isn't the best but he flashed that super-accuracy that you see in all the elite quarterbacks, the ability to make plays. None of this is even to speak about his legs or ability to make plays that way, we're talking purely as a passer, even a pocket passer. If Kyle Orton is not the most accurate deep thrower of this bunch, then Vince Young is. Tennessee quarterbacks were accurate at 20+ yards, putting the ball in position to be caught or dropped beyond, 52% of the time. Impossible for me to tell exactly what percentages for which QBs, but Rusty Smith was 1 for 5 completion wise (20%) while Kerry Collins was 18 of 44 (41%) and Vince Young was 16 of 35 (46%). If you split up the nine drops proportionally this suggests Young may have put the ball in position to be caught or dropped on a staggering 57% of his deep throws. That may be the highest in the NFL. It wasn't a one-season thing either, same methods would lead you to 54% accuracy deep for Vince in 2009. This is a dangerous play maker that is just starting to develop his feel for the short game to go along with his good deep game. He has potential to be an elite talent.

 

If we signed Edwards, it would probably be with the idea of making him the Sam backer. He only goes like 265-270. He isn't a 3-4 DE.

 

What did you do with Barry??? Bring back Barry!!! If not him, then how about an Ike avatar? :yes:

 

Fast and furious, this also means plenty of time to negotiate a new deal for him as there will be no 10 day wait for him to hit the market.

As for McNabb, disagree CK, he had the mark of a qb who is finished, to many throws coming up short and off target the arm wasn't there to power the ball to the Wr.

Now "if" he could learn to play within his age imposed limitations..then maybe, he does not have the arm to power the ball outside of the hashes the way he used to, but if he plays his game, touch/timing, occasional deep passes, maybe run for some first downs, he can still be effective however he is not the Qb he was even 2 yrs ago.

 

You mean this mean mug?

 

Not for that money. I'd rather just put that money towards keeping Cameron Wake.

 

I don't see MLB as Misi's best position....I think he needs more development time as pass rushing OLB in our D. I think he can be a great asset to Wake on the opposite side of the field. His ability to control his side while Wake is gunning for the QB is key to this D improving. I would think MLB would be out of position for him, except in 4/3 defensive sets....I think we need a complementary LBer, one who's specialty is rushing the passer where we'd get Crowder off the field, so Edwards might be a guy we could put there, but conversely, you'd be getting Edwards who has been a DE in a 4/3. It'll take time for him to assimilate into this D and learn the nuances of the 3/4....

BTW, 76...welcome to the board....

 

I don't think you can justify paying that kind of money for a player like Reggie Bush. He's really not that good.

James Jones isn't as good a player as Brian Hartline is right now, and Jones will cost more and will be going into his 5th season, where Hartline was in his 2nd.

Davone Bess isn't better in the slot, either. He took more snaps out of it than in it last year, and was more productive on a per-snap basis.

And how the hell is ILB Koa Misi's best position?

 

they need to get him signed to a long term contract instead of the tag numbers. I expect the fo waited to see what the new CBA rules will be before making a large commitment to him.


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First off, McNabb has always had accuracy issues. Second, he was aiming low on those throws over the middle on purpose. That's what you're supposed to do. Throwing over the middle is dangerous. Throwing high and over the middle even more dangerous. You throw the ball low with a clear passing lane, and the receiver has a better chance at it than anyone else.

 

James Jones offers a chance to add some size, speed and depth to the WR group w/o breaking the bank. The drawback would be on ST where Hartline would be our only WR capable of covering kicks, especially for a regime that has always leaned on their WRs to contribute in other ways. With the glut of WRs available in FA this year, I think we'll be in a good position to get a low-mid priced guy once the initial bonanza comes to an end. Jones is just another possibility.

Ray Edwards would be a good fit for us X and O wise but there are other factors that concern me. Edwards has spent the last several seasons living in the shadow of Jared Allen, why would he want to come here and play Robin to Cam Wake? And how is Wake going to react to putting up a monster year, not getting an extension/raise, and watching as another pass rusher gets paid the big bucks? Can Edwards adapt to the 3-4 this late in his career? And how will his arrival effect the development of Koa Misi, who was very solid in his rookie campaign?

Reggie Bush is an exciting player, but he's not a good running back. If you're going to use a 2 back rotation, you probably want Bush as your 3rd guy b/c he's not a #1 nor is he a viable backup should your #1 go down. Far too much of the traditional running offense goes out the window when Bush is in the game and he's not exactly Clinton Portis in pass pro, either.

If you're a Dolphin fan, then you remember John Beck. If you're a football fan, you know of Mike Shanahan and his reputation as an offensive mind in the NFL. Shanahan seems to prefer going into 2011 with Beck as his starter as opposed to Donovan McNabb, despite giving giving up a 2nd rounder and signing McNabb to a contract extension just months ago. If that's not telling enough, McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman prior the end of last season. Before that, Andy Reid traded McNabb (to a division rival) so that he could begin the Kolb-Vick era in Philly. I think the facts speak for themselves here.

 

I think James Jones is a better compliment to Bess and Marshall than Hartline is. He's faster, and he's more of a big play threat, both before and after the catch. He definitely shows more ability in terms of getting to 50/50 balls.

Besides, if Jones is being brought in to compete w/ Hartline then it's a win-win for us so long as we don't over pay. If you're right and Hartline wins the job, then we have Jones and Gates as our 4-5 or if Jones wins out then Hart and Gates are the 4-5. Either way, the WR corps would have more talent and depth than at any time in the last decade.

The goal is to improve the team, isn't it?

 

Yes, and guaranteeing $10M to potentially your #4 WR. It would be a mis-allocation of resources. That doesn't improve your team, it improves your WRs.

I also don't believe that Jones is faster, or more of a big play threat.

 

He's virtually none of those things.

He's not faster than Hartline, James Jones ran a 4.54 to Hartline's 4.52.

He's not a better big play threat, Brian Hartline had 10 20+ yard receptions last year, Jones had 8, and Jones was thrown the ball 14 more times.

He's not in practice better at catching passes, last year Jones caught 58.8% and dropped 6 while Hartline caught 63.2 and dropped 4.

He did have better yards after the catch last year, so that's something maybe(?)

Just throwing as many players you've heard of at the roster isn't realistically meeting that goal. You have limited salary cap, roster space, and snap counts.

Even if you run with the idea that Jones is a better player now(for whatever reason), Hartline is much younger, and entering into where younger players traditionally break out. Jones passed that years ago, and has kept on keepin' on as a journeyman, and will likely continue to do that. Brian Hartline has room to grow, and likely will.Even if Jones loses to Hartline, he'll take some snaps to Hartline. He'll take some snaps from Gates, and prevent him from developing as well.

They've got their receivers slotted pretty well in terms of cost and talent, and what they'll use them for.

 

Disagree on the big play ability b/c IMO Hartline has yet to make a single one. I was careful to include "unless we overpay" in the post to deal with the mis-allocation argument. I'm not sure where you go the 10 million dollar guarantee from, nor do I understand why you seem so convinced that Jones wouldn't be our starting flanker. Donald Driver was able to keep Jones out of #2 WR spot, but I don't think anyone should assume that Brian Hartline would be able to do the same.

I'm also curious as to what you ARE willing to pay for, given what's available in FA and our salary cap situation.

 

Consistent passes at the feet of Wr's is not a good sign CK.

There were performance reasons why Shanny benched McNabb aside from saving the higher draft pick.

 

Any ideas for TE? I think we need to have a serious look at getting a second TE. I know Charles Clay could possibly play some TE but I believe there still remains a critical need there.

BTW, edwards, McNabb, Jones, and Bush all sound like good options to me.

 

I'm not a big believer in how fast a guy runs in shorts at the combine. I'm more concerned with how much of a cushion he gets, how quickly he can a erase it, how close DBs allow him to get before they flip their hips, etc. On field speed means more to me than Indy times, but to each his own. As for 20+ yd completions, that's one stat w/ no context behind it.

Jones has definitely had some issues w/ dropped passes.

The random stats game really isn't my thing. Even if Jones' numbers are better there, I'm going to defer to what I see when each guy has the ball in his hands. Hartline's YAC numbers dwarf Brandon Marshall's, but we're not going to call hart the better run after the catch guy are we?

I guess that means no Palmer, Orton, McNabb or Young. Damnit.

You speak as if bringing in better players/competition at the WR spot is going to cause some personal or professional harm to Hartline. And you may be right, I just don't understand why you care. As a group, our WRs were speed and depth deprived last year and it showed badly when Marshall and/or Hartline were out of the lineup. Since then we've added a 4th round prospect from a Division II school who by most accounts will see a playbook for the first time as we're a few weeks away from the regular season. If Gates doesn't hit the ground running and one of our top 3 guys goes down again then we're right back in the same predicament we were in last year.

 

Haven't you heard? We're making countless excuses for old vets and crucifying the young developing QBs around these parts.

 

Some of you guys guys that want Orton over McNabb need to stop for a second I would love to Have McNabb as compitition and just wait and see how that develops. as for Orton if any tue dolphin fan is wanting him then they must not have seen him play in chicago and Denver Orton isnt even as good of a qb as JAY Fiedler or Damon Huard let alone McNabb I think people are automaticaly asuming he will fail so lets give both Henne and McNabb a chance . if we suck then we should try to get a top 5 pick and get Lockart or Brandon weeden thatguy has a quick releas and is very accurate.

 

Yeah, I think you've pretty well demonstrated by now you're not really interested in anything demonstrable, empirical, etc. Just really throwing out stuff you can't prove and claiming you can't prove it because it's based on supposed excellent observation skills that others must not have if they disagree with you.

James Jones is a guy whose name you've heard before, and that's about it.

Those players have a chance to start and improve on a starter. James Jones does not.

Because it's a ****ty use of resources. I'm not against picking up another receiver, but throwing what's likely a bad financial decision at the bottom of the roster who doesn't in any sense improve any of our issues is not a great idea.

 

I don't think there is anything that is going to shift the style of tight end out there outside of Zach Miller. You're basically either looking at bad players, or guys who are poor man's versions of Anthony Fasano at this point. They are probably better off just finding a solid blocker at number 2(Like Haynos again), and going more with "11" personnel then anything.

 

I'm not trying to "prove" anything when I speak of Jones. Didn't provide facts b/c I wasn't making a factual statement, that's the nature of opinions. IMO he compliments Bess & Marshall better than Hartline does and even if he doesn't unseat Hartline if we can get him for a decent price I think he's a good option for adding some talent and depth to a unit that struggled last year. Ditto for a guy like Brad Smith, who's not as good a WR but is a valuable piece to have in the WC and on ST. Point being, the drafting of Clay and Gates spells it out so simply that even sublimely clever guys like yourself can understand: We need more firepower on offense. Due to the lockout the two guys we drafted will probably have a steep learning curve and may not be ready to contribute until later in the season. Therefore, it might be a good idea to bring in a veteran who's proven he can produce as a reserve WR to guard against what happened when Marhall and Hartline went down last year and we were reduced to playing practice squad guys and recovering cancer patients.

Zing!!!

LOL. I like the declarative, omnipotent manner in which you offer your opinions, prognostications and complete guesses. Hartline and Bess are so good that James Jones doesn't even have a chance of taking their spots? Gotya.

SMH. I clearly said that Jones would be a good signing if we could get him for a decent price. And since none of us know how much Jones will command when he hits FA I figured we might leave it at that and discuss the other merits of his potential signing.

 

That's insulting to GMJ and idle speculation on your part. How can you know how much he or anyone else here, other than yourself has watched Jones? I don't care what PFF or anyone else says. Going by the University of my Eyes, Jones is a more talented WR than Hartline. Everyone used to talk about how easily Ginn went down. I don't see much better from Hartline. Heck a good gust of wind could knock him over.

 

Jones is more athletic than Hartline, but I wouldn't call him a better wide receiver. I've been forced to watch enough Packers games around this area to find out that Jones has the same problem that Ted Ginn had: dropped passes.

 

Really guys? Were talking about Free Agency and the position that has all the talk is freaking WR???? With Marshall, Hartline and Bess with a 4th rounder just dropped in with Gates forget about it. If there's any WR signing's it's competition with Gates at #4 and #5.

At QB unless we have a reasonable option to get ahold of Palmer or Orton then there isn't anything worth talking about there. Just a junkpile of washed up old vets and flawed younger guys who aren't an upgrade on Henne. They all have just as many current warts as Henne does.

At DE I don't see Edwards fitting into here salary wise. I believe this team is looking for a 3rd option. A part time pass rusher they can mix with Wake/Misi.

At RB...this is where the teams focus should be and I can see a reasonably big contract going out (although not huge). This team can't rely on a 2nd round pick to just walk in and be 'the guy'. I love the idea of having Bradshaw here if they can land him. RB coach will have his work cut out for him though on getting these 2 guys to not fumble so much.

Priority signings in order of position for me: RB, #2 Qb (face it folks..were stuck with Henne for 1 more year to see if he can 'get it' short of ballsy deal for Palmer/Orton), #2 TE. Worry about those 3 positions first then fill out the roster. Heck maybe a Crowder replacement one of these days (I know...I know).

....WR....jeeze.

 

Gotta discuss something. I agree with your priority list, but I'd included an offense guard on there too. I'd love to see Masrhal Yanda come to Miami.

 

I'm 9 hours through a 12 hour shift at work. Forgot about OG. I could see RB and OG being 2 large money spots. Hell we know this team would throw massive money at Mankins if he had come free. I would like to see someone like Yanda or Dahl fill in at RG if they truly are going to leave Incognito at LG after giving him a 3 year deal. Leave Garner as the nice floating LG/RG/RT backup.

 

Again, how does he compliment them? The single thing that you said that was actually correct on your initial comments on Jones was about after the catch, which is really what Bess and Marshall do well.

I'm not disagreeing that they should look into signing a #4 receiver, but there are better options than James Jones for the price, and people aren't actively pretending those players are something they are not at this point.

It's not that particularly oppressive a statement. James Jones is a career journeyman that had his second decent season as a #4 receiver in a spread offense with arguably the best QB performance of the year. Brian Hartline was nearly as productive with less passes thrown to him in his second year(while missing a third of it), with worse quarterback play.

This last year, Hartline was the better player. There's not a lot of reason to expect a lot of growth from James. Hartline there is.