Oh, and coincidentally, the team hasn't had a QB who can make defenses respect anything beyond the line of scrimmage during that time.

Other than the last nine games of last year, of course, when Matt Moore's QB rating was 97 and the team was 6-3. The offensive line seemed to be working fine during that period. :headscratch:

It also seemed to be working fine in 2008 when Chad Pennington had a 97 QB rating and the team was 11-5.

 

End of the day, this is what cost our OL head coach his job, and ultimately will take Ireland as well. Big reason we have lost last three.

 

Contributing factor, but this team gets no push at the line.

 

I suspect a lot of the "push" is determined by how many guys you're pushing against and how hard they're coming at you, which is in turn determined by how much they have to respect your passing game.

 

I like Chad and what he did for this team, but that 11-5 record had as much - or more - to do with the Wildcat than anything else.

 

I'm not sure the pick on the offensive line are disproportionate by any measure except the attention deficit Madden gamer crowd.

The biggest problem with theexpenditures is the injuries to big money free agents. Jake Grove, Justin Smiley, and Vernon Carey all performed quite well after they were signed. Grove and Smiley suffered what were ultimately career ending injuries. They were previously injury prone, and I think they got a little cocky with the idea they could avoid injuries with a more rigorous weight training program when Parcells took over, but I'm also not sure you should ever expect an injury prone player to have career ending injury. Vernon Carey I don't believe you really could have predicted.

 

" During Ireland’s five-year tenure as GM (Bill Parcells was in charge until September 2010")

I wonder why Jackson is throwing out quotes like that..

September was way after the 2010 draft..I wonder if he has proof of that timeline, wish someone would ask, or someone would blow the roof off this Parcells/Ireland story.

 

It must be because of playing against unfair fronts..how does Turner not have this group playing their best.

 

fixed (if we're making generalizations here). :wink2:




In response to your post:
a) Long was primarily a Parcells pick (says Tuna himself).
b) You have no idea who was responsible for Smiley & Grove or Carey's big contract..... BUT we do know that after Parcells stepped down Ireland immediately cut ties with Grove and restructured Carey's 2011 contract from $4.2M to $2.5M while voiding the final 3 years.
c) What you're also ignoring is the fact we've changed blocking schemes under Philbin, but props to you for oversimplifying this aspect of the game in order to justify your pitchfork raising. :p
d) Miami using 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd on Oline in 5 years is nothing extreme considering how terrible the unit was entering '08.

I guess you and all the other posters whining about spending high picks on Oline must think the majority of the top NFL teams are also terrible organizations considering they allocate roughly as many high picks to Oline as we have since '08.

49ers (8 linemen since '08): 2 1st, 2nd, 2 4ths (doesn't include 1st rounder Staley)
Packers (9): 2 1st, 2 4th, 2 5th
Steelers: 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd, 3rd, 4th
Ravens: 1st, 2 2nd, 2 3rd, 3 4th
Bears: used 2 of 3 first rounders on Oline since '08.
Falcons: first 2 picks this year were Oline.... before that a 1st, 3rd, 4th (not including 2nd rounder Justin Blaylock)
Broncos: 1st, 2 2nd, 3rd, 3 4th
Seahawks: 2 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Colts: 1st, 2 2nds, 4th
Patriots: 1st, 2nd, 4th (not including 1st rounder, Mankins)


How some of you persist with this Madden Football mentality that Oline is trivial is beyond me. A great line does more to control the game than any receiver or running back.

 

Its not that we invested in the line thats the complaint it is the lack of results they have gotten from it.

 

the lack of results are definitely disheartening. All I can do is blame the organization as a whole, but more specifically Parcells considering it was his team. Hopefully Pouncey & Martin are a big step in the right direction. We can fix right guard in FA (unless Jerry dedicates himself even further and gets down to a light, mobile 315 pounds as he has the underlying athleticism for this zone blocking offense).

If we trade back our 1st, UNC's Jonathan Cooper would be a pick that the uninformed, irrational fan base as a whole would piss and moan about b/c he's a guard, but the kid is a wall in pass protection, and you only have to watch Giovani Bernard to see how much he opens up the ground game, and not just for consistent 4-5 yard gains but for exciting 20+ yarders due to his ability to create space at the 2nd level as well as get out in front of screens & pulls. If we had 3 2nds and 2 3rds we could afford a solid pick like that to help make the line special.

 

Hardly. It had to do with the fact that we limited our turnovers and played solid defense. Limiting our turnovers was ALL Chad Pennington.

 

What is the lack of results?

Basically the whole of the issue right now is Richie Incognito doesn't fit the blocking scheme, and Jonathan Martin is not playing well as a rookie. I'm not sure that's a damning indictment, especially when the coaching staff is going to have input on if both players should be starting(or retained in Incognito's place).

 

..... and played the pansiest schedule (especially defensive schedule) in the history of the NFL.

 

No way, Dis. The transition to our new blocking should've happened overnight. :shifty: (sarcasm not directed at you, Shula_guy)

 

Amazing that these writers state the obvious and get paid to do so.

How about telling us why there has not been a shakeup on the offensive line?

Or why Jake's play has fallen off?

Nah, to informative.

 

Instant penetration Deej, basically our guys are to slow to handle even moderately quick defenders, add in blown blocking assignments and here we are..again.

 

49ers - Playoffs
Packers - Playoffs
Steelers - Playoffs
Ravens - Playoffs
Bears - Playoffs
Falcons - Playoffs
Broncos - Playoffs
Seahawks - Playoffs
Colts - Playoffs (maybe)
Patriots - Playoffs
Dolphins - Losing seasons.

Not surprisingly most of those teams are at the top of their division.

 

So you're saying Anthony Davis didn't need time to develop at RT for San Fran after being drafted in 2010? His play suggested otherwise.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but it seems like you're insinuating our Oline should be a strong cohesive unit despite changing blocking schemes (drastically) and with a rookie starting at RT.

 

...... but at least you're acknowledging that 8 or 9 playoff teams emphasize Oline play.

 

Nobody has said otherwise. It's the glaring lack of success at acquiring good Oline play that is key.

I must point out that although Pittsburgh has used quite a few draft picks lately, up until a couple of years ago they were noted for the lack of investment in their oline. Ben Roth ran for his life when he was winning for those superbowls. It helps to have a QB like Ben of course.

How many of those teams spent a #1 overall on a linemen? Bears have a crappy Oline. But they win. It's ugly, but they do it.

 

September 7 2010

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...er-steve-ross-brandon-marshall-and-linebacker

 

this isn't taking into account Martin's future/development b/c, for all you know, he could develop into an All Pro right tackle.

I must point out that although Pittsburgh has used quite a few draft picks lately, up until a couple of years ago they were noted for the lack of investment in their oline. Ben Roth ran for his life when he was winning for those superbowls. It helps to have a QB like Ben of course.

That's a loaded question. How many of those teams even had a #1 overall pick, and had one facing the same situation we did where there was no true clear cut #1 overall selection?

 

lol, don't held your breath on that one. if we bring in a new GM i wouldn't be surprised to see him replace Martin ASAP or bring in a new tackle that outplays him and takes his job.

 

If there's a word more extreme than "ignorant", that's what'd be used to describe this post.
This is beyond stupidity, yet you somehow cease to shock me. lol
Do you have a wife or daughter, any woman in your family, anyone with no football knowledge, who can take over your posting from here on out? :p

 

LB, if you ran this team we'd be constantly drafting #1 b/c you'd be replacing every rookie after their rookie season for not performing at a Pro Bowl level, but then again, if you were doing the drafting that would probably be appropriate. :lol:

 

oddly, you skipped the Browns and skipped the reality that most of those teams had the skill players in place.

 

That was part of it too.
But the Wildcat, and the fact nobody knew how to defend for about half the season is a huge part of the success of that season.

1. Wildcat
2. Easy schedule
3. Chad Pennington (and his ability to limit turnovers)
4. Good defensive play

 

I think you are wildly, wildly overrating how important the Wildcat was. The biggest effect by far was the Patriots game, and it wouldn't have been close without it, either.

 

Without the Wildcat we never make it to the playoffs in '08.

 

What games was it the difference in?

 

and why don't they respect the passing game ? Because Ireland has basically ignored it this off season.

Don't tell me Nanu Nanu and Ochoidota were supposed to be the answers.

 

and the easiest schedule maybe in the last 20 years

 

Exactly its the not "hitting home runs" that kills you when you invest that much on one area to the complete ignoring of other problems areas, like wide receiver.

 

Patriots game for one.
We rant up a 28-6 halftime lead with 3 TDs from the WC...... and after NE countered to make it 28-13 late in the 3rd, the WC struck back with a 62 yard TD run.

We needed the WC that game to beat a Bradyless Patriots, and without it we're out of the playoffs and the Patriots are in..... and that's not taking into affect the wildcat's impact on other wins.

 

Pretty much every use of it besides the 62-yard run came in the red zone.

If you take every one of those scores and turn it into a field goal, and then take away the 62-yard TD, they still win. That's pretending that they wouldn't have scored any touchdowns conventionally on 2nd and goal on the 2, and 1st and goal on the 5.

You're also ignoring the fact that they really made an effort not to run up the score in the 4th, Chad Pennington had 3 incomplete passes the entire game, that the Patriots offense didn't break 200 total yards, the offensive line pretty badly dominated the Patriots front-7 in any formation, etc. and so on.

It would have almost certainly still been a blowout.

 

.... but you're ignoring the fact of how those points affected NE's offensive game plan in just the 1st quarter. Those WC TD's forced a backup QB into come from behind mode rather than letting NE adhere to their normal game plan. The WC completely altered that game.

 

If we didn't need the WC to beat the Pats in '08 we wouldn't have run the WC so much.

 

They almost certainly would have scored nearly the same amount of points regardless. The wildcat was basically almost exclusively used in the red zone for most of the game.