Sometimes I think McShay doesn't know his rear end from a hole in the ground.

Justin Hunter is an extremely gifted receiver, but he's also a lazy receiver that doesn't concentrate. Because of his laziness and lack of concentration, he will likely never realize the potential that his overall ability gives him.

 

If we're going to target a Tackle early in the draft I'd rather they just take Lane Johnson (if available) at 12 and grab a WR or two in the second and/or third round. I just feel like a WR at #12 in this draft is a reach

 

Keenan Allen's speed makes me nervous.

 

Really? I don't think he's a burner, but I see a guy that has adequate speed to run the entire route tree. What do you think his 40 time will be?

 

Wat you mean nervous, Kemo Sabe? Is he that fast, or does he run too long in the same place?

 

If you've already got Bess, and presumably Hartline, on the roster, I think you need to add more dynamism at receiver than Keenan Allen.

 

He can't separate though.

Too slow/big to be a burner.
Not physical enough to break tackles left and right.

 

He doesn't look quick OR fast to me. Patterson, Hunter, Wheaton, Patton, Austin.......all these guys have speed. Allen looks like he isn't going to get away from anyone.

 

Only sometimes?

My issue with Hunter is I don't think he's ever going to be good after the catch. His yards after catch is below average for the top group of wide receivers and I think he's just so leggy, it takes him too much time to get going and make quick moves after the catch. He's also not QUICK enough to consistently separate to where he's not always in 50/50 situations with the ball in the air...where he can be pretty darn good at times, but also not so good at other times. I like D.J. Swearinger as a safety quite a bit but if Hunter is the player he's cracked up to be at wide receiver, Swearinger should not be able to keep up with him in single coverage...but he did.

I think what McShay means when he says that Hunter is a far better receiver is that he's more polished. Considering it's Patterson's first year off JUCO transfer, that's not shocking. But Patterson averaged over 10 yards per target every time Bray looked his direction, whereas Hunter only averaged 8.5 yards. And if you isolate the games against North Carolina State (David Amerson), Florida (Loucheiz Purifoy, Marcus Roberson and Jaylen Watkins), Georgia (Sanders Commings and Branden Smith), Mississippi State (Johnthan Banks and Darius Slay), South Carolina (Jimmy Legree), Alabama (Dee Milliner and Deion Belue) and Vanderbilt (Andre Hal)...then Justin Hunter's yards per attempt drops down to about 6.1 average...and he scored no touchdowns. Patterson's yards per target drops significantly as well, but is still nearly a yard better than Hunter's. And he scored 3 receiving touchdowns, 2 rushing touchdowns and 2 return touchdowns in those 7 games. The only one of those opponents that kept him out of the end zone were the national champs.

 

He's quicker than he should be at that size...but you're right, on an absolute basis the quickness is nothing special. His special qualities are more to do with polish and physicality with the football in the air. He's going to have to play to those strengths at the next level to make it.

Not surprising that the reports out of his Combine training are that he's not looking very impressive in his measurement drills.

 

Wow a lotta Keenan Allen hate, he isn't going to blow you away with his 40 at all but he is a physical WR who could be an Anquan Boldin clone.

 

I am fine with Keenan Allen. But I believe he is more of a second round kind of guy and a legitimate trade back candidate.

He is a nice WR prospect for the WCO

 

It's a good comparison. That's what he needs to shoot for. But what disturbed me about him is that after the catch this year he wasn't showing the balance to be a big time RAC threat...and if you're trying to be an Anquan Boldin then you'd better be a big time RAC threat.

 

Assuming he's a worker his strength should increase, can't speak on the balance issue considering all I've really seen are highlights on YouTube.

Agree his style with just Hartline and Bess are terrible compliments, but IMO you need a field stretcher to help a guy like Allen. A Mike Wallace-Keenan Allen duo is not likely, but I think would be a perfect match.

 

I'm not sure that I agree that he can't separate. He's not going to torch anyone, but I believe his route running ability will allow him to get open and even downfield at times similar to how Anquan Boldin does. I definitely don't agree with not being physical enough. I think that's a strength of his.

 

Especially with the QB play he suffered through, an NFL caliber QB and Allen can be a 90-100 catch guy in this league.

 

He could've been a 90 to 100 catch guy in college with a better quarterback and system but to say he's a 90 to 100 catch guy in the NFL is a huge claim. I don't see making that prediction.

 

I really do not want to draft an OT that highly.

As for Wr, imo go for the speed/upside guy as long as you are 100% on his work habits.

 

I was speaking about his potential, especially considering he looks to have the ability to run any route. I don't feel like its unreasonable to think he can be that good.

 

Any of these guys "can be" that good. I just don't see making that prediction.

 

I didn't predict he would catch 100 balls, I'm just saying I feel like he can be that type of Wr. You said my Boldin prediction made sense and he caught 101 balls as a rookie.

 

I don't hate him at all. He's a nice player. Just not a guy I'd go anywhere near at 12.

 

Well from a value pov, would it make sense to take Allen at #12?

As compared to taking say Austin in rd #2?

To me, if there are doubts then pass on Allen, take an impact guy at #12 (in essence it would be a "free" pick) and go Wr and Te in rd #2 then tackle in rd 3

 

Over the course of the season I think Patterson has clearly separated himself from Keenan Allen..... to the point I agree wholeheartedly he should be in the mix at #12. IMO Ansah, Patterson, and Richardson represent the best combination of value & need <based on likely to be available>.

Patterson at 1 and Wheaton at 2b would make an outstanding pair of perimeter receivers.

 

All 3 likely to have an impact, save for Richardson as it takes time to learn the DT position in the NFL

From a value pov, that impact is what we need.

This is one of my quibbles about Ireland, for him "impact" means a player goes for 600-700 snaps, it's *** backwards imo.

 

IMO Richardson would impact in year 1 in nickel and when we face pass oriented teams. Ansah would impact from day 1 IMO, and Patterson is so gifted we could at least scheme up easy ways to get the ball in his hands and let him do his thing. Ditto for Tavon Austin who could be a real asset as a slot receiver, punt/kick returner, and tailback in the pistol so that we could run the formation w/o having to sub in personnel, which is a big selling point IMO.

 

Where's the value in taking a receiver that can't run at 12?

 

DT has one of the shortest learning curves of any position going from college to pro.

 

It's not just about pure speed when it comes to WR.

 

Not at all.

Completely different b/c it takes time to learn how to counter move, in college brute strength or quickness will work in the NFL try that stuff and you'll get put into a straight jacket by an OL

 

Exactly, especially when the prospects who can run well are lower rated this year

 

I don't think Austin will be there in rd 2 unless we're trading up and even then he might be a late 1st. Probably the same thing with Williams. If I knew for sure one of those two would be there in round 2 I would definitely take them there over Allen at 12. You can't know that though. If the Dolphins already have Wallace/Jennings/Bowe in tow (which they should), I would be okay with any of the guys that should be there in round 2 though over Patterson/Allen in round 1. If they somehow don't get any of those 3 and also don't trade for a legit starting WR, then I think it forces you to go with either Patterson or Allen at 12.

 

Other than running back, DT is the most seamless transition going from college to pro.
Put into a strait jacket? You mean like they go insane? LOL. That's the sort of people who get put into strait jackets. I don't know what a straight jacket is, so maybe you are on to something.

Plenty of DTs play well as rookies. Suh did. Gerald McCoy played well as a rookie. Marcell Dareus played well as a rookie. Dan Williams played well as a rookie. Just in recent years.

Going back, I recall Kevin Williams, John Henderson, Marcus Stroud, Richard Seymour, etc all playing well as rookie. Tim Bowens was AFC Defensive rookie of the year.

Can you name a position, other than RB, where the players transition to the pros easier?

 

Sure, CB, De, spring to mind.

How about:

P Jerry, Sed Ellis, Kentawn Balmer, Trevor Laws, Ron Brace, Sen Marks,Tyson Alalu, Brian Price, Torrel Troupe, Mike Neal, Liuget, Phil Taylor, first and second rd picks all, how are they making that adjustment there MrC?

 

like that wouldnt cause an uproar in miami… :)

 

His teammate saying he is lazy makes me more nervous then his speed makes you nervous… ;-)

 

Why would anyone take a WR high unless he's an extraordinary talent?

 

or Bailey 3b and fill in OL CB with the other three picks

 

especially one with work ethic questions.