Who has been doing it so far in camp?

 

Why would anyone expect him to return kicks (punts I could understand)?

 

I want to see this "prize possession" on O. Returns may come into play later. I WANT to see what Clyde can do.

He may make us forget Ginn. :)

 

Bush has been taking part in the drills, but so far it has been Bess and Livas and Gates, who is a player to watch BTW, if he can Brandon Banks for us, we finally may have a explosive return game

 

Bush not returning kicks in the preseason is a good idea. Cuts down the injury risk. But at some point this year we are going to need him out there.

 

Bush didn't return kicks for the Saints either. he only ever did it in big time situations because the last thing you want is to lose him to injury for a 25 yd return against the browns or something.

 

I just really don't want to see Bess back there anymore...6 yards and a cloud of dust. Although I understand Bush really hasn't been any better at it the last couple of seasons either.

I'm with Pads..it would be nice to see how Livas or Gates do...

 

The OP said "punts OR kicks." If that's true it's just another example of this regime's failure to focus on the return game. Unbelievable!

 

Reggie not returning punts is because he will wear down and they want him to be an 'early down back', whatever the eff that's supposed to mean. I mean, clearly he gets injured a lot and can;t be an every down back, so did they invent this phrase to get him to sign with us? Does it mean he'll be out there on 1st and 2nd down so much that we'll be limitiing his usage on 3rd downs?

I mean Bush is great at two things: catching passes in space (3rd down back, imo) and punt returns. he is not as useful on 1st down as he is in those other two situations.

SOmetimes I think this regime is dumb. Sorry, but to sign a player and use him in a way that is counter to his most productive/best skillset makes no sense to me.

Who we gonna have as our late down back, Lex Hilliard? Sure, he's a great outlet pass guy. So dumb.

Maybe Bess can return kicks again too. I mean Gates can do KR, but I don;t see him as an ideal PR guy.

The same regime that moved Starks, a DOMINANT 3-4 end, to NT. Never threw the ball to Ronnie Brown. Resisted putting Ted Ginn on returns. insisted on keeping Bess as the returner despite abysmal ST's contributions (or lack thereof). preferred starting sluggish vets over an emerging Cam Wake until his arm was twisted off to get Wake more snaps. plays Richie Incognito at LG, not RG. thinks Marc Colombo is viable at RT. hell I even thought it was dumb to try to make a 3-4 end out of Merling instead of a 3-4 SOLB.

I know they have done a lot right as well. They play most of their guys in positions that suit their skills and talents... butthere are too many players they seem clueless about assessing and whom they misuse.

Or maybe I just "don't understand football" as well as those geniuses in Davie who nearly got canned last year.

 

Bush hasn't really been a good punt returner, and I'd probably say Bess has been better. I have no problem with keeping Bess on PR duty.

 

Keep in mind what Bush skillset "is", this isn't Darren Sproles, this is a top flight receiving threat out of the backfield who maybe can handle some carries, Returns are not deemed all that important generally by the NFL.

However, to Sparano's credit every preseason he has looked for a explosive returner, a guy who can tilt the field, when that prospect fails Sparano prefers reliable over explosive.


I watch this aspect of the game Bpk, like a hawk, to me it is the one area that the NFL generally does not value enough, a player who is All Purpose yds dominant, leads to scores and field position, and mistakes by the opponent, and best of all..come cheap.

 

Bess averaged 11.4 yards per return last season, which was 8th in the NFL, and a lot better than many players who are faster than him.

 

I thought we already had.

 

Also, there were only two players in the NFL last season that had more than 1 punt return for a TD. One was Devin Hester (3), and the other was Dez Bryant (2). I think people look at PR duty as an opportunity to make big plays, but in reality the bigger focus should be on field position. I would trade one PR TD per season for 5 yds of average field position on every punt.

 

Not me, and he may be in the cut zone, 2k yds, #4 Wr, on the cheap?

Sign me up.

 

If he doesn't return punts during the regular season, Sparano is a fool, plain and simple. Don't be surprised when he tries to turn Bush into something he's not (a featured back) while refusing to get production out of him returning punts, where he can make a difference.

 

That is how the NFL generally looks at Returns, be they punt or kick, to me that is an area of ripe and fertile possibilities.

A Wr has a 150 touches, they are expected to make plays, a Returner has 150 touches "don't fumble!!!"?

That is sort of backwards thinking SB.

 

Don't get me wrong. We could use his speed. But, general speaking, everyone has seemed to move on. If we could bring him back, he could certainly help us. Problem: who will be let go to make room for him?

 

Wow. The only thing that used to be good about Bess was that on a team where we were having disastrous mistakes, Bess was reliable. Then he started fumbling and bobbling this ball on Punts last year and now I don't think 'safe' can be listed as a prime attribute. He's average-average-average in all regards. If we want any spark whatsoever out of our STs, we need some big plays.

I looked at the stats and Bess DOES average around 2yds more per return than Bush, but Bush has 4 TDs on PR and Bess has 0.

I know Field-Goal Tony likes to play a small ball field-position game, but I'd gladly sacrifice the 2 yards for the chance of an extra TD each season.

It's a moot point though, because Bush is too fragile to be used on early downs AND punt returns for a whole year. Since they want to use him the way they are, they can;t afford to use him on Punt Returns. He better be productive on 1t and 2nd down to make that decision worthwhile.

 

But there really aren't that many possibilities. As I pointed out, PR for TDs, or KR for TDs are pretty rare, even with the best at those positions.

But generally speaking, would you trade 1 return TD a season for 5yds of field position every time? I have no problem with sacrificing field position, but the reward doesn't seem to be enough to warrant that.

Ideally, you can get a returner that can maintain a high average, limit mistakes, and still make big plays. But that isn't something that is common.

 

Brandon Banks had 430 yds in punt returns and 1 TD good for #3 in the NFL he had 1100 yds and 1 TD on kickoffs good for #10 in the NFL, he was a UDFA who did not play until gm #6 or so, if you can find a UDFA who can do that well at Returns, why would you risk a centerpiece of the offense doing that job?

Hopefully Phil Livas can do the same for us.

 

Which guy are you referring to?

 

It makes no sense to me how so many teams do SO little to create a great STs unit. It wins and loses you games. It lost us a couple last year. It won us one the year before that against the Jets (Ted Ginn's day).

I mean, if I have a dominant defense and very good offense, maybe I am less concerned, but the Dolphins have a great D and a shaky O with a huige question mark at QB.

The Dolphins would be smart to prioritize getting more out of their STs since their O is a question mark.

Seemed to work the year Chicago got Devin Hester and went to the Superbowl.

And as you pointed out, it's easier to collect special teams aces than Pro Bowl QBs.

 

Hmm, compare attempts per TD for Marshall or Bess to attempts per Td for a Brandon Banks and one will find while there is a disparity, it is not huge, and meanwhile, they generate field position.

Why is it, if a Wr catches the ball at the 25 and runs to the 40, they are moving the offense closer to FG range, but if a returner makes it to the 40 it is a "nice return"? Why is the same field position viewed differently?

Imho, that is one of a host of weaknesses in the way the NFL does business on the field.

 

If we were only talking about 2 yards, then I would absolutely be on board.

But in 2009, Bush averaged 4.8 yds per return, which is awful.

 

Phillip Livas:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70687&draftyear=2011&genpos=WR

[video=youtube;v31pT_20LYc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v31pT_20LYc[/video]

 

I'm not sure I understand your point. Brandon Banks had a lower return average than Bess, and he didn't have any returning TDs.

 

@BenVolinPBP Why is @SportsCenter saying that the #Dolphins won't be using @reggie_bush on punt returns? Sparano said it might be "situational"

 

Bears were #1 in the NFL in ST, Jest #2 in the NFL in punt return Yds, and both scored on ST.

Both made Championship Games.

as was mentioned, Sparano does look for that "one guy" on returns, my problem with that is as those various guys have washed out, RGM, Chris Williams, then he defaults to "zomg, just don't fumble", the Key to ST performance is hustle and conviction, Sparano has to show some in order to have a great St unit.

 

This reminds me of the faith I used to put in metrics like that for up and coming young players. By my NCAA stat calculations, David Clowney was going to set the league on FIRE with big plays.

lol.

 

Hmm:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards

1 TD kick returns he did not have a TD on a punt return, my mistake.

 

Difference being, NFLer vs NFLer, no need to project.

Only time I've seen projections hold true, believe it or not, was Ted Ginn's Return performance, if he was your Returner, and played some Wr, his stat line would look like this:

2,000 ap yds, 1-2 Td, 23 ypa avg

Ted Ginn, Izzo, these are my guys, let other folks worry about the overall impact of ST.

 

"Saturday Night Livas" is a great nickname.

 

He looks like he is going to be killed in the NFL

 

No worries. I was actually surprised to see that only 2 players had multiple PR TDs last season.

 

String, has there been a rule change that makes it harder for PR's?

I know they outlawed the wegde on KRs, so I could see KR TDs going down from that, but don't understand why PR TDs would seem down.

 

Sparano brings in a guy like him every yr, none of them have stuck, but C Williams (who is tearing up the CFL btw) was the closest to sticking so far.

The Utility of a player who costs nothing but a rook minimum contract, who can produce so much on Returns, is one of the best risk/return investments the NFL could offer, and yet they mostly treat it as a backwater the way the Bullpen used to be looked at in MLB.

I've stopped hyping these Returner types because so many have washed out in Miami, but to me, the idea is still just as valid.

 

Well a little factoid on it, the team that lead the league in ST generated via Returns field position in 2010 was..the Chicago Bears.

That is yet another Stat that the Stat Monkeys should focus on, but do not focus on, all PFF had to say was "it is to uncertain", however "if" a "explosive play" matrix, one that indexed returns to TD's and field position, and forced mistakes by the kicker, were created, then the real value of a Returner would be established.

No one is kicking away from Nolan Carroll and watching the ball go out of bounds, however there are some elite returner who cause those mistakes consistently, and there was a reason why the Jest coach tripped Nolan Carroll last yr...but no stats to show why he did so.

 

They aren't really down. Just looking back through the years, there are really only a few teams that have multiple PR TDs ever year.

I think its just a case of those plays being so exciting, that they probably just stand out more.