We won't draft him. He has serious problems and character seems to be important to the coaching staff (Marshall and Davis).

 

Top 12 talent IMO. I'd probably draft him with our second 2nd round pick on that alone and pray he's learned from his mistakes, has been humbled, and is all about maturing and realizing his potential...... unless he seems like a complete and utter lost cause.

 

Rogers makes Dez Bryant look like a common citizen lol. Like you, I love Rogers as a prospect, but there is no way we take him.

 

Who's the bigger bonehead, Rogers or Wilson?

 

I watched the full, lengthy interview of Rogers & his Tenn Tech head coach, and Rogers didn't come across as a hoodlum.

 

Jmo, Wilson is off my board in the first four rounds...dudes a punk from what I've seen...saw some signs real early,then they all came true later.

 

Numerous failed drug tests, serious attitude issues, a bar fight where he was arrested for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, a two week suspension in spring, repeated run-ins with the coaching staff, the decommital from Georgia, etc.

But he has top 10 pick talent. Is it his surroundings? Is it his mentality? Is he just immature? Thing is, he's been 110% perfect at Tennessee Tech. His inclusion on Tech's team was apparently contingent upon conditions laid out in a private pact with coach Watson Brown and I emailed a journo about him the other day who covers the Golden Eagles and he said that Rogers has said and done all the right things, been a team player, been a cheerleader for the team, going to class, acting like a grown up, etc.

Leopard's rarely change their spots. But man alive he's scary good.

 

I almost got the sense from DaRick's interviews that he previously was an immature kid with a seriously flawed sense of entitlement thanks to how society treats/exalts athletes with such rare ability as his. To me, it seemed like he was in that "God complex" state of mind to where he felt he could do whatever he wanted b/c of how much leniency and arse kissing he was given...... and who knows, perhaps he was subconsciously pushing the limits just to see how far he could expand the envelop until people finally say enough is enough and begin holding him accountable just as they do everyone else. I mean, it's no different than what we witness from unstructured little kids whose parents let them get away with everything.

 

Quite possibly. But if he thought that at Tennessee, then what the hell will he be like with millions of dollars, lots of hangers on, women, cars, houses, etc.

 

Good point. There's definitely a chance of him regressing for a short bit before the reality of the NFL smacks him in the mouth.
I say that b/c, to me, Rogers seems like such a competitor that I don't think he'd allow himself to perform at less than his fullest ability for too long before growing fed up with himself knowing he's not one of the best in the game. IMO theres a good chance the competitor in him eventually wins out, with the rest taking a back seat (just as it's doing with Dez, but w/o Dez's uprearing drama confounding things). I'd be ok with a year, possibly two, of enduring some growing pains in Da'Rick's case; would you? Plus, he'd be in a good place under Philbin with the amount of accountability coach demands.

 

Oh the mental ones are all competitors, generally. Moss, Marshall, Bryant, Pac Man Jones, etc. It's a theme for a reason.

 

IMO, Ansah has quality 3 down potential where as there's a chance Lemonier never becomes more than a situational pass rusher (unless you think you can convert him to OLB).

 

Mike Williams had some problems but I don't believe there were ever drugs involved. That's what scares me about Rogers. He's really got the whole package in his history. Drugs, alcohol, anger management, bad decisions, problems with authority. It's an all-of-the-above issue for him. He may be capable of knuckling down in the one year he knows he's got to show that he can do that, else remain poor his entire life...but what happens after that year? What's he going to do when he's safely under contract with a million dollars in his bank account?

 

There are a lot of quality DE prospects in this Draft.

Bjoern Werner, Corey Lemonier, James Gayle, Alex Okafor, Dion Jordan, Cornellius Carridine, Quanterus Smith, Ezekial Ansah, Barkevious Mingo...hard to go wrong there if you need someone that can consistently rush the passer.

 

Are you implying the only way to apply QB pressure is via speed rush?
And what about his ability vs the run as a small DE?
You have to factor in the player's total game, and in that regard Ansah poses a more reliable 3 down prospect IMO, and in nickel he doesn't have to remain at DE; you can kick him inside while bringing in a nickel pass rusher. Unless Lemonier has OLB potential, he's likely no more than a situational pass rusher for a few years with the hopes he can eventually take over for Wake IMO. I wouldn't have a problem with him if he represented the best pass rusher on the board, but I wouldn't draft a situational pass rusher over a potentially complete 3 down DE like Ansah. I'd go so far as trading back for Ansah, drafting Chase Thomas at OLB, and using both to bolster our nickel pass rush with Ansah at DT and Thomas at DE. My 2 cents.

 

IDK, perhaps his "anger mgmt, bad decisions, and problems with authority" were influenced by his drugs & alcohol period amidst an era of immaturity.

 

I'm sorry but Ansah is far from the oversized DE Odrick mold for that comparison to be drawn. I can see him easily becoming an 8-10+ sack guy while also being good against the run and a threat to swat down passes.

If you're looking for a 3 down speed rusher opposite Wake, then we'd be in trouble w/o Manning at QB allowing the ends to pin their ears back and focus on nothing but getting after the QB. IMO we're not solely limited to a speed rusher opposite Wake in order to apply pressure, as that's not the only effective way to do so.

Ansah seems capable of applying more than enough pressure on 1st & 2nd down while also being decent against the run, and I think you're selling his stock short as an inside pressure guy in nickel (considering QB pressure isn't limited to just the end spots). Ansah might not be the draft's most gifted outside pass rusher, but he has the potential to be a gifted interior rusher in nickel which we could greatly benefit from; not to mention he has enough speed & athleticism to chase down mobile QBs and screens from that nickel DT position.

IMO you're thinking too much from inside the box. If you want a good speed rusher, I'd personally rather it come from an OLB/hybrid type who isn't relegated to situational pass rush duties b/c his ability as a LB can keep him on the field on 1st & 2nd down. Therefore, IMO, speaking out of the box, the way for us to get the best of both worlds [so that we can apply pressure w/o being a liability vs the run] is to get a bigger, athletic DE like Ansah (or even Werner) and pair him with a hybrid OLB like Jarvis Jones or Chase Thomas. That way, they're both 3 down players, and that way, if you want to bring extra pressure on 1st or 2nd down, you can always blitz your hybrid OLB b/c there's no rule saying the rush can only come from Ansah.

 

Got to love his name.

Mom: "I dont know whether we should name him 'Rick' or 'Derrick'"

Dad: "Why not combine the two?"

 

JPP had 6 sacks his last year at USF, and he's not an "explosive pass rusher" either, nor is Chandler Jones for that matter who is quite similar to Ansah IMO. Again, speed isn't the only way to be an effective pass rusher.

LOL at the fact that right here you're talking about Lemonier as being a potential OLB/DE hybrid type to bolster our pass rush (which still doesn't address DE I might add) but then in point 5 below you're knocking me for suggesting that very same approach [utilizing an OLB/DE hybrid type]. :unsure: At least my notion involved the actual upgrading at DE, meanwhile yours with Lemonior at OLB hybrid leaves DE either unresolved or with Odrick still manning the position, which is exactly what you've been vehemently arguing against. lol.

Now, if you're talking about Lemonier as a full time DE, then what do we do when we're in constant 2nd & 3rd and short b/c we have a small strong-side DE getting washed out play after play vs the run? I happen to like Lemonier and would draft him if he represented the best pass rusher in the absence of a quality 3 down DE.

Me too, but he does have some bust potential as a pass rusher b/c of his size.

WADR, I find this kind of silly and obtuse in thinking. What do you ponder the #1 pass rushing Broncos do with Von Miller and the 6'5 295 jumbo DE Derek Wolf?
What about all the other hybrid or 3-4 teams who, in base defense, essentially employ either 3 DTs (ala Seattle, Balt, Pitt, GB, Dallas) or 2 DTs + an oversized DE (ala San Fran, Houston, Zona)? I guess these teams must be "indicative of a crappy pass rush", huh? lol. Since when did a hybrid defense become about making up for a crappy pass rush?

According to you the Bears must be crappy at applying pressure since they have Idonije and the non-explosive Wootton (6'6 270) opposite Peppers, but they don't suck, and they don't b/c Melton applies pressure from DT during nickel (like Ansah could), and they have a hybrid OLB/DE developing in Shea McClellin.
BTW, we're tied with Houston for 8th in sacks and only 1 behind Chicago, Seattle, and Zona, so I'm not sure why you believe we have a crappy pass rush defense. Some teams are still trying to find 1 Cam Wake, let alone a second. So please excuse me if I tell you the bolded part of point #5 is a load of poo. :p

.... and how do you cover up Lemonier's run stopping deficiency on 1st and 2nd down? Are you simply ignoring the run aspect of the game as if all that matters is rushing the passer? You gotta be able to defend the run on 1st & 2nd down rather focus all your efforts on pass rush (as there's a reason teams have both a base and a nickel D). If you're looking to start 2 small/smallish DEs in Wake & Lemonier then you're gonna get us gashed by the run to where applying pressure will become secondary to stopping the bleeding created by long ball-controlled drives that wear us down, intermixed with successful play-action when Lemonier or Wake is on the bench catching a breather.

PS: I had no idea you listened to Miley Cyrus. If you're nice, FinO might give you one of his front row tickets/back stage pass. :chuckle:

 

I honestly believe you're selling Ansah's NFL pass rushing potential short. I personally don't see him being a liability against the pass in the least. In fact I see him as an asset to it, as well as night and day improved over Odrick on the outside. If your problem is with Ansah, then that's fine, but if you're problem pertains to opting for a more well-rounded 3 down DE verses a one dimensional pass rusher who is a liability vs the run, then I'd heavily disagree with you, especially if that DE is a plus pass rusher in nickel from DT. Now, if Werner is there at our 1st round pick, I'd be hard pressed to not take him and be done with it.

You're completely confusing me. First you tell me you want a better pass rush and not just during nickel, and now you're saying you're fine with Odrick at DE if we add an OLB/hybrid. This fully contradicts your initial argument. Either you want an improved pass rush on 1st & 2nd down or you don't. We don't have a Von Miller, nor will we get one this draft, so I'd settle for an upgraded pass rusher at SDE who has the make-up to develop into a decent run defender (like Ansah), keeping in mind we have Odrick so Ansah won't be pressed into starting duty immediately.

From there I'd go after a Connor Barwin type hybrid guy in Chase Thomas. The problem you seem to have is that you want to be more successful at rushing the passer but then you seem to only want to do so with 1 player, either a DE or an OLB hybrid, but not both. What is that about? I'm taking it a step further by bringing pressure from DE and OLB, where as you seem content with either one or the other. We have Soliai who needs to come off the field in nickel, so I'm not sure what you're thinking in criticizing me for not only wanting versatile 3 down defenders at DE & OLB (whose flexibility allows for less substituting) but for also giving us the versatility to mix up our scheme (execute a hybrid D without changing personnel) as well as providing the flexibility to rush 5 on any given play in effective fashion just as Houston does with Reed & Barwin.

fair enough. To each his own..... as long as you don't have a problem with Lemonier being a situational pass rusher who rarely sees the field on 1st/2nd down.... meaning you're still getting Odrick rushing the passer on 1st/2nd down from SDE.

I'm not sure if Lemonier has the hips to be an OLB you can win with. He might only be a downhill player, hence a situational pass rusher.... which can be a steep price for at the cost of a 2nd rounder. Irvin was/is a huge fan of mine. Lemonier does NOT possess Irvin's natural pass rushing ability, nor IMO does he have the same level of COD ability, hips, and athleticism to develop into a consistent 3 down OLB/DE.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying in base D he should be as good or better than Idonije or Wootton at applying pressure..... and in nickel he should be as good or better at applying pressure than Melton, meanwhile the OLB hybrid (Chase Thomas) becomes the 4th pass rusher. If you think that's anything but an upgrade over what we currently have, then I don't know what to tell you. That's the potential for a lot of QB pressure.... and a lot of versatility & flexibility.

Wrong. I'd like to add a solid 3 down DE with the potential to be good vs the run but isn't a liability vs the pass... and who is an asset vs the pass in nickel when Soliai comes off the field. Agree to disagree about Ansah not being that kind of guy.

"Last word"? You mean like you're doing right this very moment with this comment? :lol: That's rich.
I like Swope BTW; I only disagree with your assessment of him being a fast receiver b/c, well, he's not fast. Why the heck do you suddenly make it about "me getting the last word"? What, I'm not allowed to disagree with the almighty Jim and back it up with a thorough argument? :unsure: Sorry, next time just tell me what to say and I'll fold or agree entirely, sir. :p

 

If he interviews well and stays clean the rest of the year, I think he has better odds of going in the 20's than the 2nd round. IMO he's a better talent than Kenny Britt, and that's no slight to Britt. If he does appear matured & humbled by his troubled experience and is beyond it, I personally would want to trade back (if Te'o, Damontre, and Werner are off the board) and take Rogers #1.