Definitely an interesting prospect and I wish that I saw him play more this year. He's definitely quick and I like his motor, but he seems to get pushed out wide quite a bit. That being said, in the quest to find Cameron Wake a running partner Jordan is an interesting candidate. I like his heads up reaction and how quickly he gets to Barkley once he makes up his mind during the play at 2:18. It isn't as nearly impressive as some of the Anthony Barr plays, but it shows that Jordan is thinking out on the field. Nice range at 3:07 too, I could see Jordan at OLB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdpzGUxkek4
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The first thing that comes to mind is a question regarding his functional strength. At 6-7 240 lbs he might have a hard time of it against the NFL's strong and athletic OTs. In short, I don't know. The height and weight of 6-7 240 lbs makes me think of Ted Hendricks and Jack Youngblood. But Hendricks was a functionally strong OLB and Youngblood was a very functionally strong DE, closer to 6-4.
Maybe you and others have seen a lot more of Jordan and can share opinions. My first thought would be 3/4 OLB for Jordan, but that and a buck might get me a cup of coffee at the local diner. He's interesting, though.Bpk likes this. -
There was an Ansah comparison to Aldon Smith the other day, and I just don't agree with that. I wanted to, and then I keyed on him for 2 games. You'd expect one heck of a burst from Ansah given his track speed, but it isn't there. That's actually one of his main deficiencies- he plays kind of slow, kind of plods along. That really disappointed me. I'm focused on a running mate for Cameron Wake to help energize the pass rush, and I'd easily take Jordan over Ansah. It's not that Jordan plays weak football out there, and he can get stronger. I don't see how Ansah improves his burst- quite frankly I don't understand why Ansah doesn't play much faster than he does. That track speed just does not translate.Bpk likes this.
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The question about bending the arc/flattening the edge/getting narrow at the bottom of the rush, etc...isn't so much CAN Dion Jordan do it...it's more why doesn't he do it more often?
If you're really stuck on the issue of pure ability to do it then I would think just watching these individual plays would show you that he has the leg strength and flexibility to cut back up the field off the outside shoulder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVicjLxsI_U&feature=player_detailpage#t=22s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVicjLxsI_U&feature=player_detailpage#t=70s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVicjLxsI_U&feature=player_detailpage#t=129s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVicjLxsI_U&feature=player_detailpage#t=202s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1UwVrBRruEk#t=15s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdpzGUxkek4&feature=player_detailpage#t=47s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JATMzVLBA0&feature=player_detailpage#t=97s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JATMzVLBA0&feature=player_detailpage#t=151s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JATMzVLBA0&feature=player_detailpage#t=157s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JATMzVLBA0&feature=player_detailpage#t=234s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMoel8E3HaE&feature=player_detailpage#t=336s
So again I say it's not so much a question of can or can't. It's more why. Why don't we see it more often? To that end I have a few thoughts.
For one thing, here's an example of something that is generally missing from his tape, that I feel is probably more the real issue with Dion Jordan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMoel8E3HaE&feature=player_detailpage#t=392s
It's really simple and you see a lot of guys doing it all the time, some guys do it pretty exclusively, but Dion Jordan doesn't ever do it. Depending on the play call, you're constantly seeing tackles and tight ends overset and get too much depth when they're blocking Dion Jordan because they know he's going for the outside shoulder and hasn't really shown much ability to counter to the inside.
Why doesn't he do that more? I don't know. It could be coaching. He could just be dumb. But he may also have physical limitations. Here's an example of something I've seen twice from Dion Jordan, which may suggest why he's not going to the inside enough:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVicjLxsI_U&feature=player_detailpage#t=111s
Looks fairly harmless, the guy tries to set up a spin move to the inside but the tackle sends a jab and knocks him out of it. But I've seen it twice happen exactly like that, in pretty limited tape viewing. You wonder if he's just not capable of crossing to the inside.
But then you watch him play the run, and he's always extending his arms and cutting to the inside to shed blocks and get to the tailback. The ability and agility to redirect are clearly there...he just doesn't DO IT.
He's more comfortable defeating blockers that come out to him than he is figuring out how he's going to defeat blockers by going on the attack. That much is clear on the tape. What's also clear is he doesn't have the gumby ankles you see on a Cameron Wake as far as re-directing and flattening the edge. But then, not every defensive end (even the stars) needs or uses that ability.
In the end I think it's a combination of coaching and hand use. He needs better hand use on his outside rush so that he can slap away the hands of blockers more consistently, and he also needs the coaching to develop more counters so that he isn't a one-trick pony. Given that, I normally wouldn't be interested in a guy like this very high, EXCEPT for what I see from him defending the run and using his high motor to chase guys all over the backfield. Athletic and lengthy pass rushers that are raw aren't that hard to come by. Ones that combine those attributes with the ability to break down in space the way he does and that have the natural strength and aggressiveness he has against the run, are a lot more rare. That makes me more willing to accept that he may be raw in pass rush technique by virtue of the position he played in the defense, and allows me to take my chances teaching him better technique...because I'm fairly confident I'm not going to be burned by striking out completely on him (which means not being able to justify putting him on the field whether it's a run situation or pass situation).Da 'Fins, Finsanity247, Xeticus and 10 others like this. -
My impression of Jordan from the USC game is that he hasn't been taught to run the arc. I don't think he's a dumb player since he's asked to do a variety of things. I think that if you put him with a good mentor type (like Wake) that he could develop into a good pass rusher and a very good all-around player.
Da 'Fins likes this. -
I'm curious as to how a major football school could fail to teach a DE how to properly and efficiently try to get around an OT when rushing the passer. These coaching staffs make pretty good money, and that smacks of incompetence. Maybe he's not easily taught or it doesn't come naturally to him. Or as you said, maybe he wasn't taught, who knows. But he turns a corner more like a Caddy than a Porsche. And if that is correctable and he becomes an even better player, more power to him.Bpk likes this.
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Because he's not really a DE in that system. He's a linebacker. He lines up detached from the line on a ton of snaps, playing out in space. He goes out into coverage as often as he's rushing. Given that, it's easy for me to imagine how he ends up not quite so polished on the fineries of pass rush technique from a down position. I don't believe him to be dumb either. I brought the possibility up because truly, we can't say he's not dumb, not with any certainty.
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I kind of like that, because he can rush the passer and I like how he drops into coverage quite a bit. I'd be interested in seeing what he could do in the NFL as an OLB that moves to DE on passing downs. I like his closing speed- not as good as Anthony Barr, but solid.
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Those two seem to qualify as the 'lots of upside' and need to be coached up.
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All that I can say about Ansah is watch him play. As I mentioned earlier I watched 2 of his games (a few weeks ago) and keyed on him- there is no Aldon Smith in him, no Anthony Barr, no Dion Jordan. The dude does not play anywhere near as fast as his track speed indicates- I can't figure it out. Maybe he's a strider who needs to get a head of steam up, because he's obviously fast in the 100 meters. But in terms of burst and short term quickness off the line- it ain't there, and that really disappoints me.
Ansah has really good range and does some other things well, but I'm not interested in a bull rusher, I want a Damontre Moore, an Anthony Barr, a Corey Lemonier, and for me personally a Sean Porter. And maybe a Dion Jordan- I'm not sure about him, I need to see more of him but he fits the bill- a terror off the edge type to compliment Cameron Wake. That's the dire need imo. And btw although my preference is an OLB or situational type terror off the edge, DE Bjoern Werner looks mighty good to me, I keyed on him in that UF game and he gets after it big time. Anyway, of all these players my last choice for the Dolphins would be Ansah. Most would probably disagree as per Porter, but I think that he'll make one heck of a 4/3 OLB and a pass rusher.
I think that the basic disconnect is Ansah being lauded for his track speed, and the reality is that the track speed does not translate onto the football field. Forget about the Aldon Smith comparisons- of all the players mentioned above, Ansah is the furthest from Smith, and it's not even close.Bpk likes this. -
He's strong at the LOS but the best things that I've seen him do are sideline to sideline pursuit and trying to deflect passes at the LOS, specifically getting his hands up way high on that 6-6 frame and timing his jumps JJ Watt style. Ansah is a heady player, I like that.
If Lemonier doesnt have an elite burst, then he's close to it. He can really get after the QB, and if you compare him to Ansah you'll really see the difference. I'd be very happy with Lemonier in the 2nd and Porter in the 3rd, but that might be a bit wishful thinking. Lemonier looks like a 1st rd pick to me and Porter a 2nd. I'm basing 2nd and 3rd rounds on the mock drafts that I see, but those are just opinions, too. -
Well, If we go defensive player, I feel really good about selecting Dion Jordan..
This guy can do things, NOBODY else can do..one of my favorite things?, how bout this..To make a long story short, he comes out on the perimeter to cover the Flanker...winds up sacking the Qb...everything that happened in between, was like Jason Taylor on steroids..
A this point, he's flying under the radar a bit, but that shouldn't last to much longer...looks like a blue chip prospect to me. -
Draft Countdown scouting report:
http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/DE/Dion-Jordan.phpHiruma78 likes this. -
I agree that ansah doesn't have the quick twitch like Jordan but I believe he is the better compliment to Wake.
I believe ansahs long stride makes it appear he is slower but the man is covering ground.
I have trouble with Jordan and how he will translate his rush to the NFL. Are tackles going to be able to jab him and mess up his path. Taylor was lanky but had great hands and could adjust his rush lane. Not sure Jordan can do that
I made the comparison with Smith and ansah bc of there size and length but also his stride, long with the ability to adjust stride length without losing his lane bc of his strength. Not sure how hard its going to be in the NFL to move Jordan off his point.
I feel ansah and wake would really shrink that pocket quickly.
I look foward to watching Jordan as I have seen only very limited filmBpk likes this. -
Dion Jordan is having an excellent game so far tonight if you're really into the details. Violent hands, keeping contain versus run, forcing the action back inside where things are clogged, extremely smooth in coverage, and even showed a great outside rush on his first real pass rush of the game, showing flexibility and bend to come back to the QB.
Oh and he rushed in a two point conversion.
He's going to go high. -
dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member
Like 12?
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I see bending the edge has come up..eh..that is more of a pure sprint rush move
A good rusher can go from speed to power to speed and keep their hands free.
Watch his change of direction, more than anything else this shows he can be engaged, but aware, then come off the tackle to make the play
And for goodness sakes, watch his first movement vs the offensive movement, IF the OL takes the first step back while he simultaneously takes as fast a step forward...that is a keeper
OL has a 2/10ths a second jump on a passrusher, if they can make up for it with their first step, you have something, it means the OL has no advantage and a 320 pd Tackle vs a 240/50ish DL who can make up for it..draft him if you need a passrusher
This is why I like Odell Willis+Phillip Hunt, they DO that w/awareness -
A guy who is very under rated is Kiko Alonso. He's better than at least two of the players ranked ahead of him on NFLDraftscout.com for instance.
ToddPhin likes this. -
Brightest flame burns quickest. Jordan been out for nearly a quarter, obviously shoulder is being problematic.
Too bad. Was on his way to a great game. -
I'm hoping he pushes Warner to us.
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a one point safety on a blocked extra point that goes into the endzone ? lol...is that rule also working in the NFL ?, probably not since the extra point plays are not "live" in the NFL right ?
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I liked Philip Hunt coming out of college, I didn't realize that he was back in the NFL, good for him. He had a burst, explosion. We could use a guy like that, cheers to him and hopefully he can do a Cam Wake-like move from the CFL to a great NFL career.padre31 likes this.
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I disagree, not a fan of Oregon. I think either team would have killed them.
That being said, I would never say no to more football and look forward to next years playoff format. -
you mean like how #3 Florida killed Louisville?
Unfortunately we'll never know about Oregon.
SEC hasn't looked the greatest so far after UF's spanking, LSU going down, and SC coming close to losing to Mich.
If TAMU <who beat Bama> loses to Oklahoma <who beat K State who lost to Oregon>, then a 1 loss Bama in no way shape or form should deserve an outright Nat'l Title crown if they beat ND. -
Though I thought he started out the game beautifully the down side to last night is Jordan missed an opportunity to show the NFL that he's more than just the next Manny Lawson, which is the comparison he's going to run into among those that question his ability to consistently rush the passer.
Those people that have been questioning his strength or ability against the run, have in my opinion been pretty far off the mark. It just seems like a lazy evaluation. Not anyone in here, in fact most here seem to correctly frame the strengths and challenges with him as a draft prospect, but I've seen others do that. -
No, if the extra point is blocked then it's dead. There are no conversions of any type.
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See I do think strength is his issue, but I don't think he has issues against the run. His big problem IMO is lower-body strength. His arms are so good that he will be good against the run because he can disengage very easily.
Where his lack of strength becomes problematic is when he's rushing the passer. I think its fair to criticize his ability to consistently flatten the corner. I think lower body strength is important in doing that, because otherwise it makes it too easy for tackles to redirect the rusher. When Jordan is able to get his hands on lineman he's great because he can create a cushion then take advantage of his speed. One of my concerns about him in the pros would be facing tackles with longer arms, which could negate one of his biggest strengths.
Anyone else think Jordan could be the best TE in this class?
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