Thread closed for consideration.

Nothing against you @Puka-head.

ThePhins.com have a policy of avoiding political posts. We'll leave this post up because it's a valid piece of Dolphins news but further replies stand a high risk of descending into a toxic political discussion.

We're considering this and will advise soon.

 

---Please read.---

Alright guys,

As per Puka's post, yesterday Brian Flores and the Miami Dolphins released a video announcing that they will be staying inside for the anthem and will come out afterwards. It explains why and if you're interested in the topic, you should watch it. Either way, they're clearly calling for a conversation about how everyone can do better.

To that extent, although we have a policy to avoid political issues, we're going to open up this thread for that conversation.

Normal rules apply. However, since political threads always go down hill eventually and get locked, we're asking contributors to exercise self-discipline and help keep this thread open. How to do that?

1. This thread is only for the discussion of this specific topic - the conversation raised by the Dolphins. This isn't a POFO replacement thread and general political issues are off-topic.

2. If you don't act with respect or follow the rules you may be removed from thread.

3. If the thread goes downhill generally it will be closed.

In the words of Brian Flores:

"When you’re dealing with 53 guys and 16 practice squad players and coaches and personnel people from different places, you may have different opinions. That’s everywhere. And that’s good. That’s a good thing as long as we’re communicating and we can talk it out, and show respect."


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Brian Flores:

"“I talk to Steve about the video. He was supportive,” Flores said Friday of Dolphins owner Steve Ross.

"“The message is to try and create unity, not divide. That was partly of why they wanted to do it. Specific to our locker room, I feel like we’re all on the same page. I hope it’s that way,” Flores said.

"But look, it was directed at everyone. I think every individual in this country can do better. That’s players. It’s coaches. It’s owners. It’s media. It’s everyone. Everyone can do better. And to try and misconstrue the message or take it in a different light, that wasn’t what the message was supposed to be.

“We can all do better. We all need to do better. And what’s happening in this country and really around the world, we need change. It’s something that we’ve been saying for a long time, and the video speaks for itself from that standpoint. From a message standpoint, it’s that we can all do better.”

"When you’re dealing with 53 guys and 16 practice squad players and coaches and personnel people from different places, you may have different opinions. That’s everywhere. And that’s good. That’s a good thing as long as we’re communicating and we can talk it out, and show respect.

"The one thing I said to the players: ‘Faith without works is dead. Faith or belief without works is dead.’ We can talk about doing things, but we have to back it up with some action. They know that. They understand that. Anyone else who speaks out should understand that as well.

“That’s the message to those guys, and I think they understand that,” Flores added. “I think they’re ready to help and take action in ways that they can. But, just personally, I know that you never feel like you’re doing enough. You feel like you need more help. And I think if we get more people trying to spend the time or donate, or donate time, or donate money or actually just have, I wouldn’t call it a change of heart but empathy and an understanding. If we can get that, then we’re moving in the right direction.”"

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29855411

 

I also respect the decision by the team and hope they destroy the Patriots on Sunday!

 

As long as they don't point it out to the viewers every 20 minutes like last night, it's fine.

I don't need to hear..."In case you missed it, here's what happened pre-game".

Let's play some football.

 

This was one of my biggest complaints of how the networks dealt with Colin. The networks were constantly making a huge deal out of it.

The players can do whatever they want. They are adults.

The networks, I am here to watch football. Once the game has started you don't constantly need to remind me that Colin was sitting on the bench during the national anthem or showing him on the bench during the anthem.

 

Galant, that’s going to be a bit challenging since the poem recited by the Dolphins players literally addresses many of the political issues are are being headlined by the media, pundits, celebrities and football players alike. But on that note...

Watching a game, be it football, baseball, basketball or any of the numbers of sports we as Americans watch and are fans of is a recreational event. Work, family, friendships, religion or even politics, sports is supposed to be one of those times where people can watch their favorite team or athlete play a game and ESCAPE all of the seriousness and stressors in our daily lives.

You and the fan next to you could personally be as different as night and day but watching your favorite team was that one thing in which all of those differences disappeared and you could just relax...decompress...have a good time...enjoy the excitement of a game and just simply be a human being.

Sadly through the pressures influence, many are calling on high profile institutions to take a public stand, one side or the other but there’s a serious problem with that. Sports transcends everything. If you love football and share a favorite team, it doesn’t matter who you are, where you’re from, what color you are, what religion you are, what your political affiliation is, a Dolphins fan (for the purpose of this discussion) is a Dolphins fan. Aqua and orange is aqua and orange. You love your team.

If the Dolphins as an organization mandated or encouraged one stance, you risk alienating a segment of your fan base. If they mandated or condoned an alternative stance, you risk alienating another segment.

While I have my own personal opinion on what I believe the team should do, I can live with and respect the team’s decision to remain in the locker room. By not taking an obvious visible stance one way or the other, the team...which we all are fans of, regardless of our personal points of view regarding daily life, the team is being wise as not to risk offending any particular segment of the Dolphins fan base.

We as Americans have to get back to some sense of normality. If everything in your life is force filled with some underlying or obvious message that you or may not agree with, then you can never just RELAX and enjoy a game.

Thank you Miami for deciding to just be a football team. Now, FINS UP BABY!!!!!!

 

I get and respect this point of view, that after a tough M-F 9-5 a lot of us just want to kick up our feet and watch some ball, but it's worth remembering that our own personal experiences aren't shared by all. Would Jackie Robinson agree its all about escaping the seriousness and stressors in our daily lives? And for many people of color, there is no escape, which is one of the points being made. Listening to their platform during the pregame, seeing them wearing shirts or shoes or stay inside for the anthem has no real negative effect on me or my ability to watch the game - it's not delaying the game, changing the game, cancelling the game. The guys are still going to put on the pads and jerseys and play. Worst come to worst, I can just mute the TV until they are lined up for the kickoff.

Listening to the pregame stuff before Chiefs/Texans, and this point was addressed in a roundabout way. It's why the NBA decided to partner up and offer their arenas as voting centers, as a way to start taking action and promoting positive change. It's difficult sometimes to follow messaging with action. The NBA got a start, we will see if the NFL will follow or not really. They also mentioned hoping to get the owner's to back them. As much money as the players have compared to the average joe like you and I? The owner's have politics money. Policy money. Money that moves things and gets things done behind the scenes.

 

I can see it now, Jerry Jones crying his little eyes out(provided the plastic surgery allows him to), swearing up and down he would have never helped create and maintain a society that exists almost entirely to protect and benefit him if he knew that someone was one day going to put pressure on him to use that power in a way that is mildly inconvenient and uncomfortable to him personally. Its so unfair.

 

Having this conversation today on the anniversary of 9/11, I can't help but think of how unified we were as a country the day after, on September 12th, 2001. On that day, politics didn't matter and neither did race, religion, status or creed. We were all Americans unified under one cause and I really think we need to find a path back to that reality. It starts with sparking these types of conversations so everyone can gain some context on how others might feel.

I applaud the Dolphins for taking this first step and asking us to have a conversation, because being able to talk about our differences ultimately brings all of us closer. I hate that these types of threads go south so fast because I talk about my feelings/beliefs here more than anywhere else on the net....maybe more than in the real world sometimes. The goal of these conversations IS NOT TO SAY, "You need to believe what I believe or else i hate you!"

It's actually to say, "I wish you could understand where I'm coming from and why my experiences are different from yours."

For instance, you might look up at the sky and say that it's blue. My youngest kid has terrible vision so the sky looks more aqua-green to her. You could argue with her all day long that the sky is blue but that's not her reality...she sees what she sees because that's what it is. And I think that's what we need to re-learn as a society on practically everything- there's no absolutes in this world when it comes to feelings and beliefs. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to talk about our differences and find solutions that works for everyone.

So again, I'm 100% in support of the Fins not taking the field if that's how they feel- good for them.

 

This is a fantastic move, if those angered can get past why they're not coming out for the anthem, they'll realize its because they don't want to be part of the NFL's PR show, its empty gestures that only divide us further and doesn't result in any meaningful change.

They're also calling out the NFL for taking millions from the military to honor our heroes. No one should make a ****ing dime honoring our war heroes. Ever.

BRAVO!!

 

There has been some recent research into how the politicization of sports affects your audience.

The nutshell version is that it doesn’t move the needle with people who already agree with you, but drives away the uncommitted and the people who disagree.

Once you have lost an audience it can be very hard to get them back. Not all the upset fans will be hanging by the telephone waiting for their beloved to call them, some will find a new object of affection.

 

I totally support what the Dolphins are doing. I only hope that when they play at home the fans in the stands choose to act differently than the fans In KC last night. It is of course their right to do otherwise.

 

There's more of a desire for this to be true(and for someone else to hypothetically punish the NFL or players on their behalf, while they can still watch) than there is evidence anyone's behavior is actually modified by this.

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/319256/farming-rises-sports-tumbles-industry-ratings.aspx

 

Let's say that your statement is 100% true for a moment- let's call it a fact. All businesses deal with this; we have to develop rules to protect our employees and customers, even though some may not like it. For example, you have to wear shoes to enter a convenience store or a restaurant at the beach. It stinks and people get angry about it but it's also state law. Then there are others who get just as angry when someone walks into a gas station at the beach barefoot and the staff doesn't stop them...so it's impossible to appease every customer 100% of the time regardless of the rules and laws.

Now, let's get back to your statement that we're pretending is a proven fact. Some folks hate any form of protesting from players and they may stop being Dolphins or even NFL fans. Is that a bad thing though? Because think about this- as a business, you have to take a stand in what you believe is good and right. Should you really care if customers who believe the opposite of you get angry over it? And if you do want to continue marketing to customers that don't share your values, what does that say about you as a person and a leader? Your belief system should never be compromised to make an extra dollar.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but the team has two choices- publicly display their opinions on something they believe is important...or stay silent. I don't think this is the time in US history to tell anyone that their opinion doesn't matter, especially athletes who have a lot of sway with teens and young adults.

 

His point still stands.

 

This is probably because the average person doesn't have an understanding that the flag stands for people's freedom to choose, and the military is the entity that has defended that freedom. The average person is functioning at a more superficial level, where "flag" equals "military," and kneeling for the Anthem is supposedly disrespectful to the military's service.

America is about freedom, including the freedom to kneel for the National Anthem. The flag represents that freedom, and the military has defended that freedom. As soon as we impel someone to stand for the National Anthem, instead of exercising their freedom of choice, we become something different from America.

The people who've fought and died in war for this country have defended our freedom of choice. Surely they haven't defended an obligation to do one thing or another. And certainly the flag and the Anthem represent freedom, not an obligation.

 

Most I can find so far:
"Kaleb Thornhill, the Dolphins' director of player engagement, worked with the team's social justice committee to create it, Flores said.

“That group of guys had a lot of conversations,” Flores said. “Kaleb spearheaded a lot of the conversation. They wrote a lot of what they thought down on paper, and were able to communicate it in the video.”"

https://www.insider.com/coach-message-in-dolphins-video-is-we-can-all-do-better-2020-9

 

I don't doubt that there are people of certain political orientations that are going to talk a big game in a political poll. The question is if they'll stop watching, or watch something else. There's no evidence that's true, or if it is true, that those people make up a meaningful percent of the population.



Ratings for football have decline over the last "X" years(by various metrics), but it's in-line with what is happening to TV in general. There's no evidence it's a reaction to certain people having their feelings hurt or whatever, as opposed to say, a huge shift in how people are consuming entertainment media.

 

I think that's exactly what the Dolphins players are against, division. People got to stop thinking this is a black & white issue (no pun intended) where we assume everyone who doesn't share their viewpoints are terrible people, they have their reasons, for some their reason might be racist, but I'm willing to bet for most its not about race, they just feel the flag and anthem shouldn't be used to incite division and anger and if you read the Dolphins poem, you'll see that's where they stand as well:

So if my dad was a solider but the cops killed my brother, do I stand for one anthem and then kneel for the other? This attempt to unify only creates more divide, so we'll just skip the song and dance, and as a team we'll stay inside.

 

I think another possible reason is more and more people are drifting away from TV, I hardly ever put it on, though when I do its usually for sports, but some have abandoned Directv, Optimum, DISH, etc.....mostly because of prices and poor services. My cousin for example watches everything he needs via internet and he probably watched the Thursday night game but do we know if that counts in the ratings.

 

And you don't understand how the vast majority of fans aren't going to agree with this and are going to wind up simply tuning out this stuff until it goes away? You don't understand how rubbing someone's nose in this over and over with no escape from the scolding and preaching is going to have exactly the OPPOSITE effect you want it to have?

 

My advice to them is to go watch the WWE if they are so offended by people protesting peaceful - protected by the constitution.

I could never comprehend how a bunch of cantankerous old men have no problem watching African Americans play sports (a lot of times die hard fans) but the moment the athletes open their mouths to speak on behalf of injustices in the world they are discarded like trash. I don't think they much give a **** if people stop watching them that can't tolerate social dissent.

 

Once again, there's no proof of this at all.

Even then, who gives a ****? They've made a choice that might hurt their bottom line, and made an assessment that it won't for some reason be ruinous(which there's about a zero % chance of).

 

Hmm.. politics in sports is for me a distraction I'd rather live without, but none of it compares to the irritation of lengthy commercial breaks during the game. I've developed a routine of actually doing some work during commercial breaks and going back to being a fan between the commercials. Nothing to be done about that either I guess.

 

You know, when I watch the Dolphins play, I’m not watching African Americans playing a game. I’m color blind when it comes to the human race. In the army, we weren’t black, white, brown, yellow or red. We were all Army issue OD green. When I watch the Dolphins, if I see any color, it’s aqua and orange.

Im retired from the army now and working for AT&T. As to them “opening their mouths” I guess I just look at it like this I’m forbidden from expressing any opinion or views while in uniform at work that may tarnish the company brand, whether customers agree or disagree with my personal opinion. I risk losing my job. So why would employees of the NFL be considered any differently?

Because they’re famous?
Because they’re millionaires?
Because they’re celebrities?

They’re no different than I am. They are employees of a company who, like me are professionals in their line of work. I have customers, they have customers. I provide a service, they provide a service but if I express my personal opinion on a social issue while at work, I risk dismissal for potentially offending a customer but if any of them express an opinion while in uniform at work, whether or not I’m offended is irrelevant.

This is why I’m glad the Dolphins are taking the position of staying in the locker room. They don’t have to worry alienating one segment or another of their customer base...just like I have to refrain from alienating and offending any of my customers.

 

Also online ratings were near the record level for Thursdays game as well.

 

Illegal streaming is huge nowadays. I bet at least 5 million stream illegally.

 

Careful guys. Don't let this get personal. It's an emotive subject so try to keep it objective and try to be understanding.

Okay?

 

Nothing to do with being offended, has a lot to do with being tired of beaten over the head with the same message no matter which direction you look. And as for your crack about cantankerous old men and African-Americans, those athletes make millions of dollars from people who pay to watch them play. They're not paying for their political opinions. The owners aren't paying them to give their political opinions while on the field, in uniform. If you're a Best Buy employee wearing the blue polo shirt, you aren't allowed to go proselytize for your favorite religion or political cause on the job, so why should the NFL be any different?

 

Proof as in a professionally-run study? No. Not yet.
But I know a lot of people who have been fans their whole lives, season ticket holders, people who buy and wear the gear, who have told me they've had enough being lectured on morality and politics by players who constantly get busted for beating their wives and girlfriends and getting DUIs. They don't watch football for a political screed and they're not going to be supporting it anymore.
And no, it won't show this season, not with the COVID disrupting things, but long-term, it certainly will.

 

It's the way of the world right now. If the NFL is politicizing it why can't a random internet message board talk about it?

 

If you are tired of hearing it, just imagine how tired they are of saying it.

It is not their fault that Best Buy doesn't have a union.