Depending on rookies to substantially improve your team is hardly ever a good thing in the NFL, and the lockout made it a much more difficult task. For some reason, call it a hunch, I think this group of Dolphin draft picks may be an exception.
Pouncey was at the player only workouts with "Big Jake," and that had to be a big help. Moving Carey to G, and sandwiching him with Cog, on the other side, should also help. Being better than Berger is easy. Going up vs Soliai in practice cannot hurt. How much better is still a question.
Thomas at RB has it easier, as do all RBs coming into the league. I like the pick, and believe he will do well. Having a 4+ yard average on 200+ carries is not a whole lot to ask for. Practicing vs our front 7 has to help.
Gates does not have to learn a lot, just to get off the LOS and run, taking two DBs with you. 25-30 catches for 500 yards and 5-6 big plays would be nice. Going up vs Davis, Smith, Carroll, and W Allen has to help.
Clay has to learn all 11 positions, is being tutored by a few guys from MIT, and his helmet size has increased by 2 so far. :) Seriously, all he has to do is be able to give us some speed at TE down the seam, and chip in as a FB/H-back.
I have to think that all 4 will make an impact on this O. Will it be enough?
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ToddsPhins, Pandarilla and GMJohnson like this.
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I wish it was that easy. Gates has a ton to learn IMO. I'd argue more than any of the rookies you list.DolfanJake, Stringer Bell and Bpk like this.
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If he's strictly perimeter.
But that's one of the problems I have with the Dolphins filling the offense with so many slot guys. Chan Gailey once made things easier on a rookie Chris Chambers by putting him in the slot. We might have considered doing the same with Gates.Aquafin likes this. -
I was not overly serious, as I'm sure you know. However, learning to run a 9, a la Moss, is not all that complicated, and would make him effective in this O.
I believe my expectations are realistic. -
Granted. Not saying that's all he will learn, just saying that alone would be a help to this O.
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Ah, didn't realize you thought the same thing about Gates in the slot. -
It would be foolish to expect anything out of Gates. Getting off the LOS is one of the hardest things to learn in the NFL, and the main reason why talented WRs fail in the NFL.
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I don't see why it couldn't be considered with Gates. The majority of his snaps are likely to come in 4wr formations.Stitches likes this.
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4-WR formation is not the same as 4-WR personnel, the latter of which is not often used in the NFL. Very low percentage.GMJohnson likes this.
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Our rooks taken in the top three rounds have contributed and stuck around more than our free agent signings. I'm not that worried. Only high misses as rooks were John Jerry and Pat White.
Pouncey and Thomas do not concern me in the least. They'll be good.
Gates and Clay do concern me. Hopefully Daboll is malleable enough in his gameplanning that if they aren;t working out he can work around it effectively. -
What's the diff?
Is 4 WR formation a spread formation, whereas 4WR personnel could be any formation, like trips bunch right with 4 WR's, or even a double TE ACE look, but with WR's subbed for the TEs? -
What he's saying that having literally 4 wide receivers out on the field is not as popular in the NFL as some believe. However, having a formation of 4 receiving threats is.
I think that's what he meant. Pretty sure. Its just his terminology was a bit confusing considering he used "WR" to describe both. The keywords are formation and personnel though.GMJohnson, The Aqua Crush, Stringer Bell and 2 others like this. -
Consider me foolish. I believe Gates will make some plays for us. I have no expectations on him being great this year, just making some plays, and changing coverages on the D.
Do you think he will do nothing? -
Makes sense. YOu don;t see a true 4-WR formation out there that often. usually one of the four receivers is a flexed TE, or the QB does a pre-snap read out of a 3WR set and decided to motion the RB out there to a receiving position.
I expect to see the latter happen this year with Bush out of our backfield shifting to the LOS as a straight up receiving threat. -
IF Gates gets off the line, which is up to Daboll with motion, slot, or Clyde's ability, and IF he can catch a bomb or two early in the season, he will have to be accounted for by the D. At worst, this will open things up for our other receivers, as well as Bush.
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I agree, which is why I don't see him making much of an impact.
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That's correct. I find it important to stipulate formation versus personnel. 4-WR personnel should be 4-WR personnel. 4-WR formation is actually going to be half-personnel (3-WR, 1-TE) I would say like 50-70% of the time, with most of the remaining percentage involving like you say a back that motions out or something else. The actual use of 4 WRs on the field at the same time in the NFL is a really low percentage, like 5% (educated guess).Bpk likes this.
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I would guess he'll see around 150 snaps this season. If he gets 25 receptions, that would be great to me.
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I'm thinking in that range as well, maybe 200 snaps. A catch or two a game, with some big catches mixed in, is realistic.
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We were likely a big part on that percentage, as we kept everyone in to attempt to block, aside from our OL.
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Given those numbers, it really makes me think:
- #4WR's main value is as a back-up, not as someone who will see the field as a 4th receiver.
- a #5WR has no value whatsoever unless he's contributing on special teams
Question: is there a trend as far as what situations you usually see 4WR personnel used in? Hail Mary, surely. But when else? -
OOPS! I was incorrect.
4WRs were on the field for 7.1% of all snaps. -
Well, we probably led the league in 1WR personnel, or 001 or whatever the Pat Kirwan code was for personnel (RB-TE-WR or something like that).
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:lol: I'm trying to do this in Excel, which isn't a fan of such a large data-set.
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You guys are giving me a headache with all this terminology. Why not just Waterboy it?
[video=youtube;nfHOQAT0-Mk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfHOQAT0-Mk[/video] -
I read Omar's camp report this morning. On one play he said that Gates split two DBs for a big gain on the 9 route, one that Clyde runs with ease. Cris Carter has said that Moss made a great career off that one route.
I agree with Alen, SB, and CK that Gates has a lot to learn, and it will not be easy for him this year. However, I do believe he will give us some good production off that one deep route, while learning what he needs to on others and overall.
Moore and Wallace had 278 snaps last year, were targeted 28 times with 12 catches and 190 yards. I can easily see Clyde more than doubling that production, and that alone would be a big help to our team. Add in a few big returns, and I'm good for now.
He "could" do more but, that is a fair expectation.MikeHoncho likes this. -
We rotate quite a bit. Gates will get plenty of playing time. Standard formation will be 3 WR-1 TE, with Thomas as the back.
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That, in itself,would be a big change from last season