Dolphins place Tua in IR

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Well, based on your well documented anti-Tua bias, it sure read like that’s what you were saying.

Disclaimers tend to help clarify.

You sound like a politician saying anyone who disagrees with you has a bias. The only thing I have ever said is that he lacks arm strength. That isn't bias. That is sticking to facts. I have said multiple times I like him, I have said multiple times he has many good qualities as a QB, and I have been clear as long as he is our quaterback I will root for him to excel. Arm strength will never be one of those qualities.

"resnor wrote:

Sure but if someone had argued that even an average or below average QB could run this offense, which was what was said/implied, then Skylar still wouldn't fit the bill because he's not even good enough to qualify for below average. Lol

Dude you and a few others on here suggested that Skylar Thompson start for this team over Tua! Yes! You guys did! There were some of you on here doing that. I am not going to dig it up, but it's a fact that some on here suggested it. If you did not...Then I apologize, but I seem to remember you doing it. It's ok either way.

What exactly qualifies for "average" in this league? Even average quarterbacks were at one time either starters or drafted in the early rounds with the expectations of being starters. Andy Dalton, Baker Mayfield, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz, Sam Howell, Sam Darnold, Jameis Winston, Jimmy Garropolo. All of them are backups except for Mayfield. Darnold is a backup who is starting due to injury. To me, these are the mediocre QB's of the NFL at this current moment. I personally believe that we would win or be winning games with any one of them starting over Skylar Thompson. I'm excluding rookies here, but if you take the rest of the backups in this league, they aren't going to give you much more than Thompson is. Taylor Heinecke? Tyson Bagnet? Jake Haener, Brandon Allan, Cooper Rush? Those teams are dead in the water if they lose their starter. Tua was that important to us and there's really no arguing that at this point. Tua is the difference between this team winning 11-12 games vrs 3-4 games in a full season. We're screwed. With that being said, my confidence would be soaring right now had we added any one of the average names you see listed above in the offseason because to me...Those are your average QBs of the league. The rest are well below average until proven otherwise.

Also, I do agree with those that say the "system" does matter to a certain extent. For example, Justin Fields would be terrible here in Miami. He's winning in Pittsburgh right now because Tomlin runs a conservative offense with a mistake free gameplan in place. The offensive line for Pitt is solid and their defense keeps them in games. They grind out wins and as long as Fields doesn't make too many mistakes, they can win games. With that being said, Russell Wilson was supposed to be the starter. So system definitely matters. Malik Willis with Green Bay is another example. He'd be awful here in my opinion. This offense requires a quarterback who can make a quick read and get the ball out accurately and on time.

The problem is that Skylar Thompson, Ted Bridgewater, Tim Boyle...These guys don't have the talent and ability to do what Tua does for this offense. Now if you take a guy like Winston, Carson Wentz, Mayfield (three very high picks), Sam Howell, and possibly Darnold (top 3 pick)...Guys that have the talent, but just haven't been able to unlock it and put them in this offense, then yes...They'd flourish in my opinion. QBs have a long shelf life and these guys would be rejuvenated under Mike McDaniel. So with that said, the problem isn't McDaniel in my opinion, and It's certainly not Tua (other than him getting injured). The problem is that Chris Grier arrogantly ignored the backup quarterback position this past offseason and it has come back to bite him. The same can be said about the offensive line. That's the other thing. Sam Darnold is looking good with Minnesota right now. A big part of that is because he has a nice offensive line in front of him giving him time. BTW, why is it that both Darnold and Mayfield were downright AWFUL in Carolina and now both are quality starters in this league with their new teams? It makes ya wonder just a little bit about Bryce Young does it not??? I mean give these guys a stable environment to play in, put a quality offensive line in front of them and watch them blossom. It happens. Right now, we're not only suffering from horrific quarterback play, but also horrific protection up front. We'll be lucky to win four games this year. Grier needs to be fired the moment the season ends.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

You’re assuming the independent neurologists he’s visiting as well as his wife are urging him to retire.

No one here know who is saying what to Tua, so until we’re told what has been said and by whom, picking up the Pom poms and cheering for Tua to go one direction or the other is nonsensical.

That is true, but if you think you are going to get the full accounting and a full picture of what has been said and by whom, you are fooling yourself.

"StaleTacos wrote:

That is true, but if you think you are going to get the full accounting and a full picture of what has been said and by whom, you are fooling yourself.

So suggesting he retire is dumb, right?

"ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

Dude you and a few others on here suggested that Skylar Thompson start for this team over Tua! Yes! You guys did! There were some of you on here doing that. I am not going to dig it up, but it's a fact that some on here suggested it. If you did not...Then I apologize, but I seem to remember you doing it. It's ok either way.

What exactly qualifies for "average" in this league? Even average quarterbacks were at one time either starters or drafted in the early rounds with the expectations of being starters. Andy Dalton, Baker Mayfield, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz, Sam Howell, Sam Darnold, Jameis Winston, Jimmy Garropolo. All of them are backups except for Mayfield. Darnold is a backup who is starting due to injury. To me, these are the mediocre QB's of the NFL at this current moment. I personally believe that we would win or be winning games with any one of them starting over Skylar Thompson. I'm excluding rookies here, but if you take the rest of the backups in this league, they aren't going to give you much more than Thompson is. Taylor Heinecke? Tyson Bagnet? Jake Haener, Brandon Allan, Cooper Rush? Those teams are dead in the water if they lose their starter. Tua was that important to us and there's really no arguing that at this point. Tua is the difference between this team winning 11-12 games vrs 3-4 games in a full season. We're screwed. With that being said, my confidence would be soaring right now had we added any one of the average names you see listed above in the offseason because to me...Those are your average QBs of the league. The rest are well below average until proven otherwise.

Also, I do agree with those that say the "system" does matter to a certain extent. For example, Justin Fields would be terrible here in Miami. He's winning in Pittsburgh right now because Tomlin runs a conservative offense with a mistake free gameplan in place. The offensive line for Pitt is solid and their defense keeps them in games. They grind out wins and as long as Fields doesn't make too many mistakes, they can win games. With that being said, Russell Wilson was supposed to be the starter. So system definitely matters. Malik Willis with Green Bay is another example. He'd be awful here in my opinion. This offense requires a quarterback who can make a quick read and get the ball out accurately and on time.

The problem is that Skylar Thompson, Ted Bridgewater, Tim Boyle...These guys don't have the talent and ability to do what Tua does for this offense. Now if you take a guy like Winston, Carson Wentz, Mayfield (three very high picks), Sam Howell, and possibly Darnold (top 3 pick)...Guys that have the talent, but just haven't been able to unlock it and put them in this offense, then yes...They'd flourish in my opinion. QBs have a long shelf life and these guys would be rejuvenated under Mike McDaniel. So with that said, the problem isn't McDaniel in my opinion, and It's certainly not Tua (other than him getting injured). The problem is that Chris Grier arrogantly ignored the backup quarterback position this past offseason and it has come back to bite him. The same can be said about the offensive line. That's the other thing. Sam Darnold is looking good with Minnesota right now. A big part of that is because he has a nice offensive line in front of him giving him time. BTW, why is it that both Darnold and Mayfield were downright AWFUL in Carolina and now both are quality starters in this league with their new teams? It makes ya wonder just a little bit about Bryce Young does it not??? I mean give these guys a stable environment to play in, put a quality offensive line in front of them and watch them blossom. It happens. Right now, we're not only suffering from horrific quarterback play, but also horrific protection up front. We'll be lucky to win four games this year. Grier needs to be fired the moment the season ends.

It's like I haven't already addressed this. I was on board with that for a half second after Skylar had to play without any first team reps and I liked what I saw.

Stop pretending he played like this and I came out saying he should start over Tua.

GTFO

Speaking of injury prone QBs, Anthony Richardson is out after injuring his hip.

I'm not sold that he's actually a workable QB to start with, but he also doesn't seem like he will be able to make it through a season.

"texanphinatic wrote:

Speaking of injury prone QBs, Anthony Richardson is out after injuring his hip.

I'm not sold that he's actually a workable QB to start with, but he also doesn't seem like he will be able to make it through a season.

I’m telling you…running quarterbacks! They don’t last long

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I’m telling you…running quarterbacks! They don’t last long

I think a lot depends on the individual. But Richardson is a guy who looks like he attempts to make contact instead of avoiding it and, yeah, no bueno.

There are running QBs who are successful though. Even if they may have a somewhat shorter overall career, it's probably a good tradeoff for a team. The issue is the ones that seek contact and get taken out.

"resnor wrote:

It's like I haven't already addressed this. I was on board with that for a half second after Skylar had to play without any first team reps and I liked what I saw.

Stop pretending he played like this and I came out saying he should start over Tua.

GTFO

Ok brother....No problem.

"texanphinatic wrote:

Speaking of injury prone QBs, Anthony Richardson is out after injuring his hip.

I'm not sold that he's actually a workable QB to start with, but he also doesn't seem like he will be able to make it through a season.

After he took a big hit, the Colts called a qb run and he got hurt again and didn’t come back. At first I was questioning the OC’s sanity, but him passing is a pretty scary proposition. That INT he threw last week would be the worst pass of the year if it wasn’t for Will Levis the week prior.

"texanphinatic wrote:

I think a lot depends on the individual. But Richardson is a guy who looks like he attempts to make contact instead of avoiding it and, yeah, no bueno.

There are running QBs who are successful though. Even if they may have a somewhat shorter overall career, it's probably a good tradeoff for a team. The issue is the ones that seek contact and get taken out.

I don’t know. All the years I’ve watched football, I’ve seen running quarterbacks from Tarkington, Elway, Cunningham, McMahon, Young, Vick, McNair, McNabb, Griffin III…with the exception of Elway and Vick (who had a break due to the department of corrections), a lot of those quarterbacks didn’t have long careers and most didn’t get a Super Bowl ring.

When you look at running quarterbacks today…Jackson, Murray, Allen, Richardson, Mahomes…3 of those have have significant injuries that have (or will) caused them to miss a lot of games.

I just don’t have a lot of faith in the proverbial running quarterback. The odds are not in their favor.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I don’t know. All the years I’ve watched football, I’ve seen running quarterbacks from Tarkington, Elway, Cunningham, McMahon, Young, Vick, McNair, McNabb, Griffin III…with the exception of Elway and Vick (who had a break due to the department of corrections), a lot of those quarterbacks didn’t have long careers and most didn’t get a Super Bowl ring.

When you look at running quarterbacks today…Jackson, Murray, Allen, Richardson, Mahomes…3 of those have have significant injuries that have (or will) caused them to miss a lot of games.

I just don’t have a lot of faith in the proverbial running quarterback. The odds are not in their favor.

I'm here myself. I prefer the historical prototype pocket passer. Give me a big accurate arm, and a quick release. After that if he can run when he has to and make plays on the run that should just be the icing on the cake, not the whole cake.

That said Tarkington had a very long career.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I don’t know. All the years I’ve watched football, I’ve seen running quarterbacks from Tarkington, Elway, Cunningham, McMahon, Young, Vick, McNair, McNabb, Griffin III…with the exception of Elway and Vick (who had a break due to the department of corrections), a lot of those quarterbacks didn’t have long careers and most didn’t get a Super Bowl ring.

When you look at running quarterbacks today…Jackson, Murray, Allen, Richardson, Mahomes…3 of those have have significant injuries that have (or will) caused them to miss a lot of games.

I just don’t have a lot of faith in the proverbial running quarterback. The odds are not in their favor.

Longevity doesn't matter if you don't win a SB. I'd take Mahomes any day.

Also, don't forget that most starting QBs never win a SB. It's not just running QBs. Pointing out that most running QBs don't win SBs without also pointing out most pocket passers don't win QBs skews the perception a bit.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I’m telling you…running quarterbacks! They don’t last long

Josh Allen is definitely an outlier in that regard but I've no doubts he's going to get injured at some point. The Ravens were hammering him every chance they got last night and he was on the side line trying to keep his arm warmed up at one point, no doubt he got dinged on it.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I don’t know. All the years I’ve watched football, I’ve seen running quarterbacks from Tarkington, Elway, Cunningham, McMahon, Young, Vick, McNair, McNabb, Griffin III…with the exception of Elway and Vick (who had a break due to the department of corrections), a lot of those quarterbacks didn’t have long careers and most didn’t get a Super Bowl ring.

When you look at running quarterbacks today…Jackson, Murray, Allen, Richardson, Mahomes…3 of those have have significant injuries that have (or will) caused them to miss a lot of games.

I just don’t have a lot of faith in the proverbial running quarterback. The odds are not in their favor.

I don't think Mahomes is a running QB, he's a pocket passer who can scramble imho. He's like the perfect mixture of both, he can kill you from the pocket as he's good at reading defenses and has a very accurate arm but he can also hurt you with his legs when he's tiptoeing down the side line trying to draw a flag out of defenders.

So he was put on IR because of the optics?

"Springveldt wrote:

Adam Schefter reports Tua Tagovailoa is "symptom-free" and appears to be on track to return to the field as soon as Week 8.

— Adam Beasley (@AdamHBeasley) September 30, 2024

So he was put on IR because of the optics?

Yes, and it affectively ended the Dolphins season.

Or the Dolphins played with fire and got burned.

This is really no different than the NFL hammering the Patriots on Deflategate because they went easy on Spygate. Miami brought the scrutiny by how they handled everything a season and a half ago.

"resnor wrote:

Or the Dolphins played with fire and got burned.

This is really no different than the NFL hammering the Patriots on Deflategate because they went easy on Spygate. Miami brought the scrutiny by how they handled everything a season and a half ago.

The only thing they can be accused of doing wrong in 2022 is letting him finish the Bills but if he was actually cleared what were they supposed to do?

"resnor wrote:

Or the Dolphins played with fire and got burned.

This is really no different than the NFL hammering the Patriots on Deflategate because they went easy on Spygate. Miami brought the scrutiny by how they handled everything a season and a half ago.

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion because every concussion since then has had the player sit at least 1 game and Tua was out for 5 games and then the season. The Dolphins are the only team doing this.

If you are referring to Tua playing in Cincinnati after the Buffalo game well Tua cleared all the concussion protocols after Buffalo and was never diagnosed with one. They can't be punishing them for that since we've seen stuff like the Mahomes one I posted and Derek Carr getting 2 in 3 weeks and not missing a game. Why weren't the Saints hammered for Carr's second concussion?

This is what I was worried about with Tua going to IR. From what I've read he's had no symptoms since 3 days after the concussion and he's wanting to play again. Instead we have to ruin our season just so it doesn't look like the big bad Dolphins are throwing a player out there who had a concussion.

"Springveldt wrote:

Adam Schefter reports Tua Tagovailoa is "symptom-free" and appears to be on track to return to the field as soon as Week 8.

— Adam Beasley (@AdamHBeasley) September 30, 2024

So he was put on IR because of the optics?

Being symptom free and being healed are two very different things. Let's not conflate them.

"StaleTacos wrote:

Being symptom free and being healed are two very different things. Let's not conflate them.

How do we know when Tua is healed?

"Tuanon4Life wrote:

How do we know when Tua is healed?

By listening to the armchair neurologists here, in the media, and on X, of course. Lol

In reality, and until we have better testing measures for the brain, a concussion is “healed” when a player’s testing measurements are back to baseline and they are symptom free.

For all intents and purposes, Tua is “healed” because he’s showing no symptoms (according to reports) and has been allowed to travel cross country, attend games, go to practices, etc.

Now, if a neurologist, or even he himself, wants to rest longer I think that’s reasonable. However, for someone like Staietacos to just make up stuff is absurd.

"danmarino wrote:

By listening to the armchair neurologists here, in the media, and on X, of course. Lol

In reality, and until we have better testing measures for the brain, a concussion is “healed” when a player’s testing measurements are back to baseline and they are symptom free.

For all intents and purposes, Tua is “healed” because he’s showing no symptoms (according to reports) and has been allowed to travel cross country, attend games, go to practices, etc.

Now, if a neurologist, or even he himself, wants to rest longer I think that’s reasonable. However, for someone like Staietacos to just make up stuff is absurd.

Thank you for an informative response. Still curious though what Dr. Stale would say the difference is between being symptom free and healed. Something like Einhorn is Finkle would be relatable to the correct response.

"Tuanon4Life wrote:

How do we know when Tua is healed?

That would be for the doctors to determine. The doctors that Tua saw, not Twitter doctors, made the decision to put Tua on the IR for a reason.

Symptom free in concussions doesn't mean healed when it comes to brain injuries. This is basic. First step will be rest, and then there's a plethora of other steps and evaluations to go through before he comes back on the field. But the doctors very clearly wanted his brain to rest for a long time.

You should watch the video of the NFL player that wanted to come back after a month of being symptom free, and then went temporarily blind during a wine tasting. They want Tua's brain to be well rested. There's no league conspiracy here.