I don't think there is a greatest. I'd put guys like Belichick, Shula, Parcells, Lombardi, Walsh maybe top 5, not necessarily in any order, but for different reasons. Belichick operates in a salary cap era and has 4 SB's went to 6 and is consistently good.. Shula, most wins all time, took 2 teams to SB's and that perfect season, Parcells took many teams deep into playoffs and has a large coaching tree, Lombardi 5 NFL titles and 2 SB's, Walsh installed West Coast offense and 3 SB's, etc...

 

Belichick. There's been so many great coaches but the guy won with Brady as a game manager and had the balls to bench Bledsoe. He's plug and played nobodies throughout the years and won in a salary cap era. He hides weaknesses and highlights strengths better than anybody. He constantly takes away the opposing team's best weapon.

It's debatable but that's how I feel. I wouldn't have a problem with anybody else's ranking of HOF coaches. There's so many amazing ones.


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Don Shula. IMHO. Perfect season, most wins. Anyone who answers Belichick is failing to account for just how bad the man has cheated the game and is still cheating the game.

 

Yeah, Belichick cheated, but no I don't think without cheating you're suddenly looking at an average HC. Maybe instead of 4 SB's he wins 3. Without doubt he is a master in the X's and O's. And the in-game adjustments are things very hard to ascribe to cheating. No real technology there to pick up calls the other side is making (head phones are encrypted btw).

 

Honestly guys, what holds me back from saying Shula is he didn't find a way to get Marino a ring.

It's naive to say Belichick just always cheats. He must be the greatest cheater of all time by far to have a dynasty that's remained relevant for so long.


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The Dolphins never put a complete team on the field for Marino...after 1984 I honestly never felt like we had a really talented roster under Shula. I don't know who's fault that is. Eventually Shula began to lose his edge.

I'm old enough to remember the 1970s teams. They were incredibly disciplined and professional. There's a story about Mean Joe Greene almost quitting on the Steelers in '74. He'd just seen the Dolphins dismantle the Bengals on MNF, no penalties (actually, I checked -- there were four), perfect execution, and he couldn't understand why Pittsburgh couldn't play like the Dolphins. Shula was an incredible coach then. Also when he got to Super Bowl XVII with Woodstrock and the Killer B's -- that was a well-coached team. It's like anything else, it's hard to keep your edge and be great for decades.

The rest of my list would be pretty conventional: Belicheck, Walsh, Lombardi. Going back further, Paul Brown shouldn't be forgotten.

 

Honestly I have a hard time saying Belichick is the greatest of all time. He cheated, when he didn't need to. Also we don't know how deep it goes. Say what you want, end of the day, hes a cheater.

 

Belichick by a large margin. Averages a 12-4 record with New England, has a 21-8 playoff record (Shula had less playoff wins in double the seasons), 4 rings, ect.. I've never heard significant/reasonable claims against him.

 

No tapes (Ernie), home field officiating, or needles.

 

I vote Shula although arguments can be made for others. He was capable of modifying his system to the talent on the team. When Miami had Csonka he won by ground and pound along with the no-name D. Once he saw what Marino was capable of it became "attack."

Before my time but Paul Brown, George Halas worthy of being in the discussion. Also, Chuck Noll and Joe Gibbs in the conversation, not for greatest all-time, but top 10. Personally, I wouldn't put Parcells in the top 5 and perhaps even the top 10. I thought Madden was a hell of a coach and only longevity keeps him from being toward the top. Jimmy Johnson was an absolute master of manipulating the draft.

The argument I would say is legit against Shula is that he wasn't the best at drafting players. For years he drafted players on the D-Line with the reasoning heavier players would get worn down in the Miami heat, but it was the lighter players that ended up getting worn down by going up against the much bigger O-line. It's been years since I've seen the interview when he acknowledged that.

 

I think in terms in being a pure handle-your-business football coach, Shula has an incredible legacy. I'm not sure how he would've fared if he was in his prime during the modern era. He might not be so special.

I'll default to the guy who's coaching now, in my era, especially since I think the game is as multi-dimensional and complex as it's ever been. I think coaching today is harder than ever.

The thing about Belichick is that I'd be scared no matter where he went. I could see Belichick rebuilding virtually any franchise and establishing a solid team with good player evaluation and good chemistry. I think Belichick understands how to build a team if the owner and the fans have the patience. He was on track to doing that in Cleveland of all places. The number of highly respected guys who came out of that Belichick program in Cleveland is quite large. Many of those guys became GMs elsewhere using methods that Belichick helped show them. So Belichick has not just coaches but actual GMs in his tree. It's hard to discredit a HC who not only understands the strategic side of the game but the player evaluation and management side as well. That's incredible. His success in the modern era is no fluke. Anyone who suggests cheating will have ruined that legacy is high.

 

I would agree if it weren't for Belichick being 51-62 when Tom Brady doesn't start and 170-48 when he does...the Patriots were 5-13 under Belichick when Bledsoe started who was pretty good himself before Brady took over and won the Super Bowl that year.

When Brady is starting Belichick is 21-8 in the playoffs with 4 SB wins and 6 SB played in. In the 7 seasons he coached when Brady wasn't the starting QB he only made the postseason once going 1-1 in playoffs.

I'm not knocking him, he is a hell of a coach, but Shula took 4 different QBs to the Super despite winning only 2 of 6. Heck, Shula took Wood/Stock to the Super Bowl.

 

Belichick by a wide margin. He was a great DC prior to becoming a great head coach and how he has been able to maintain a consistently winning team for well over a decade in the free agency era, is something which will likely not happen again with any other organization once he retires.

 

Shula was great. Bobby Beathard was LEGEND. Joe Gibbs and Don Shula owe part of their rings to that guy. You want a dynasty, get the best GM. Everything else will follow.

Also even though he had a horrible record, it was under George Wilson that we drafted Bob Griese, Csonka, Kiick and Morris

 

Wooden

 

Paul Brown, Don Shula, Lombardi and Bill Walsh. Belicheck is #5 on my list, despite the cheating.

 

shula probably would have had another ring or two if csonka,kiick, and warfield didnt leave for the wfl in 1974.

 

Then you're not paying attention.

 

Belicheck would be the first one to tell you that Paul Brown is #1 on the list and everyone else is a distant second - and I agree.
The discussion is about Belicheck-Shula-Walsh for 2nd place.

 

Belichick is 10-1...while using 21 different OL combinations. He figured out a masterful way to eliminate the pressure on Brady by running this ultra fast , short game. His team lacks end to end speed, but is probably the most agile in the league. Then he loses Dion Lewis, and Julian Edleman, and still wins. Loses Danny Amendoula and just loses to Denver in Denver.

How they are 10-1 with the players they have on offense if just mind boggling.

Well, one reason is because their defense is playing very good football, with one true very good CB.

Im just amazed at how this team keeps getting hit with injuries and never loses stride.

Ive never seen a a team make so little mistakes that hurt them. Very very rarely are they ever out of position. Everything works with precision. This is where the cheating thing fails to generate any argument for me. Sure you could use that if this team wasnt so god damned disciplined. They are a MACHINE. You just watch this team and go...ok...they dont look so amazing...and then they just score. And make plays on defense. Never make a mistake, and almost ALWAYS take advantage of when you do. That doesnt come from cheating, that comes from coaching.

I love Shula, but Bill Belichick is the Greatest Head Coach of All Time.

 

Cheating has ZERO to do with how well his teams perform, every damn year. They lose Tom Brady week one, in comes Matt Castle they go 11-5. Cheating does not cause them to by far make the least amount of mental mistakes Ive ever seen from a football team. They never make a mistake that costs them. And almost always...if you make a mistake....they kill you.

They change their scheme from week to week to take advantage of the other team.

If everything was cheating....they would suck this season...look at their OL...21 different line combinations.

Sorry, you talk to anyone who has anything to do with the NFL and not one will use that cheating argument against Bill Belichick. To do so only makes you sound like a fan of a team that hates the Patriots.

 

I would have Shula at 7, ahead of him in no particular order, Lombardi, Madden and the 4 Bills, Belechick, Walsh, Parcells and Cowher.

 

How quickly you and others forget. They have stolen, and I'm convinced they continue to steal, defensive signals. All the credit and adulation you want to throw on Belichick and Tom Brady go right out the door when you realize they know most NFL teams defensive signals, and generally know what defense they are facing on almost every single snap. You want to believe he is a mad genius? Fine. As a statistician, I see how bad this team looked last year at the start of 2014 and then saw how good they became, as just more of a sign that the theft of teams' defensive signals continues. When you watch Brady play, almost every throw is to a specific spot at a specific time. He makes it look easy because it is when he knows exactly where the defense WON'T be.

How big an advantage does this give the Patriots? The best analogy I can come up with is imagine playing Texas Hold 'Em with a table of players and you're the only one who can see everyone's down cards. Maybe a little extreme, but it's close.

So while others tend to marvel at the fact the Patriots continue to be so good despite losing so many players as evidence of the brilliance of Brady and Belichick, I instead choose to look at it as mounting evidence that a team that has been caught cheating multiple times already is continuing to cheat. And cheating can be a huge BAND-AID.

Call me crazy. Maybe I am. I'm convinced that within my lifetime we will know the truth about the depth and severity of the Patriots cheating over the course of this "Dynasty" and I can only hope that when that happens there will be no place in Canton for Brady or Belichick.

 

Totally agree, yes he did cheat, but there was nothing there that would guarantee victories, the video taping just made it a little easier to do what every team is still doing, reading signals, either way they still have to be deciphered, which is an imperfect science and signals change all the time, and deflated balls, who even knows to exactly what effect that has, and the earliest possible time that could be done is 2007, and there were already 3 trophies in the case.

 

Define stealing, because reading and deciphering signals isn't illegal, just video taping them is.

 

lol, yea, I was thinking the same thing, it struck me as I was making my list, that's a lot of Bills.

 

It's illegal to communicate that information to the QB after the 15 second cutoff. Which Doug Flutie suggested has happened in the past and I'm convinced it's still happening. Some friends and I were recently watching a game and we all noticed Tom Brady putting his hands over the helmet the way QBs do when they are trying to hear the audio feed. This was seconds before the snap.

Also it would not surprise me in the least if they are still illegally taping signals.

 

Paul Brown is a sensible choice, of course, but far from a sure thing. As with many great coaches (including Shula) he ended far worse than he began.

Brown was in the league championship game each of his first ten years as a professional coach (the first four with the AAFC), winning seven. But after Otto Graham retired, Brown never won again. Two years after they got rid of him, in 1964, Cleveland won the title.

In the 1940s and early 1950s he was probably further out in front of his peers than any coach has ever been. The Browns were pioneers in film study, training, conditioning, integrating black players, etc. etc. etc. But the level of competition was pretty low. It's the Don Hutson problem. Relative to the competition, no one ever dominated receiving the way Don Hutson did. In multiple seasons, he caught more passes by himself than several teams managed. Jerry Rice never came close to doing that. But most people will rank Rice ahead of Hutson as a receiver, because the level of competition was so much higher.

Ive never seen a a team make so little mistakes that hurt them. Very very rarely are they ever out of position. Everything works with precision.

This is what the early 70s Dolphins were like. I guess BB has kept it up for longer, though.

 

I can see everybody on your list except Madden, much as I like him. He had a very short career. He had a gaudy winning percentage, of course, but the Raiders were terrific when he got there and terrific after he left. He won one Super Bowl. His successor, whom no one will ever accuse of greatness, won two.

It's funny to think that I like Madden now. When he was actually coaching, and I was a young Dolphins fan, I thought of him as more or less Satan on earth. Him and Kenny Stabler.

 

I read the relevent posts in this thread pretty carefully and the only thing even somewhat compelling is the assertion that Brady is receiving direction after the 15 second cut off. I do find it hard to believe that Brady is shamelessly broadcasting this on live television and no opponents have decided to bring attention to it, however. There is also an NFL official on-site to monitor this during games.

I imagine they are still taping signals, it's just extremely unlikely they're doing so illegally.

 

I didn't know you were limiting your view to only responses in this thread when you said you've never heard a legitimate claim against him. How about starting here:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

And then check out the Wells report if you're still not satisfied.

 

I wasn't. I did assume that after being told I may not have paid attention, some reasonable gripes would be in the ensuing posts on the subject.

I appreciate the link, I might get to it at some point though I'm not expecting much.

 

His son is doing an amazing job in Carolina with Newton and virtually nothing else around Newton except for Olsen. Ted Ginn and cotchery are his two receivers.

If we dont interview Mike Shula we are foolish. Its time to give that guy his chance. Unfortunately I can see him getting a shot elsewhere...

Thats a coach, a guy that can elevate players despite the talent.

 

Fair enough, I won't argue, those are very fair points, the only thing I'll say is that he did coach his @ss off, lol, just saying that in a lot of big games I thought he out coached other very good coaches, but those are very fair points you bring up.

 

Don't see how Cowher would be ahead of Shula. I wouldn't put Madden or Parcells ahead of him either.

 

My list would be

Bill Walsh
Chuck Noll
Don Shula
Bill Belichick
Tom Landry
Marv Levy

Parcells Lombardi are somewhere near the bottom of my top ten. Cowher is somewhere just above of Schottenheimer.. Hes not a top ten all time coach IMO..