All roads do lead through Foxboro in the AFCE

 

If Miami can simply find a way to win late in the year, it will have a chance to knock the Pats off...If they can't do that, then might as well wait till Brady retires.

 

While I agree with that sentiment, there is no way Belicheat has the type of success hes had if Brady isn't around. Brady is the single most important player to his team in the entire NFL. That team is .500 at best without him hoodie or no hoodie.

 

Sort of, to me, his record of cheating taints his accomplishments.

I do think ppl do not realize the first couple of SB his teams were run heavy.

That said, we can beat them head up, first time in a long time when the submarine goes under the water with them, we have no obvious weaknesses to exploit. For the first time in a long time, the FO/Staff has not made it easy for them

 

Yes. The Dolphins would instantly be a Super Bowl contender with Brady at the helm.

No disrespect to Tannehill though.

 

No different than most teams. Injuries are part of the game. I'm curious is an injury riddled season would save Joe Philbins job.

 

I think Peyton Manning (in his prime) has that honor. When the Colts played without him in 2011 (for that Suck for Luck sweepstakes), they went 2-14 from a previous year record of 10-6. When Brady was out, NE went from 16-0 to 10-6. Granted, this isn't a laboratory experiment with proper controls, but Manning in his prime makes an OC almost unnecessary.. Brady needs an OC but can handle a very sophisticated playbook.

 

It better not. He's had enough chances. This should be a "No More Excuses" season.

 

I remember that year having a very soft schedule for the AFC East. I think that particular example might not be a good one. Manning should definitely be up there in the discussion but I think Brady trumps him by a good margin. Much like in real life. :lol:

 

I'm thinking hes the head coach in 2016 if Miami has catastrophic injuries. No way Ross fires him.

 

A good way to measure how easy the schedule for a division ended up being (after the fact) is to calculate the win % by either all the teams in that division, or all teams except the one of interest.

In this case, we have:
win % by all AFC East teams except NE in 2007: 12/48 = 25%
win % by all AFC East teams except NE in 2008: 27/48 = 56%
win % by all AFC South teams except Colts in 2010: 20/48 = 42%
win % by all AFC South teams except Colts in 2011: 24/48 = 50%

So.. what this means is without Brady, the Patriots lost 6 more games but with a MUCH tougher schedule than the year before compared to the 8 more games the Colts lost with an only slightly tougher schedule (this means with an equally tough/easy schedule the Patriots would have won even more than they did without Brady).

So the example is actually a good one. In the only year we have stats, one can say that Manning was more indispensable to his team than Brady, measured in terms of wins/losses.

 

Russell Wilson, Marshawn Lynch, Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas.

If those four key players are hurt for Seattle tomorrow, they might go 4-12. Not many teams can take 3 or 4 key injuries.

 

Sort of, keep in mind, Jordan Phillips is just sort of hanging out. the D is predicated on DT's being dominant, we are insanely deep at those positions

We have hit the point of..8 in the box to stop Miller..here is Landry and Jordan..play cover, miller will burn them..all predicated on Tannehill though

ST wise, Landry had close to 2k APY, we replaced the FG and P, and added specialists to boost ST

 

Our depth is a big concern, but Dol-Fan Dupree is right that losing 3-4 key starters would drastically change the fortunes of most NFL teams. I think what's different with us is we'd be screwed with 1-2 key starters being lost, depending on who we're talking about (and by "screwed" I mean an extra 1-2 losses for the season, which might mean the difference between playoffs and no playoffs for us this year).

 

Right, it only takes 1-2, not 3-4 in our case.

 

I know I am in the vast minority but I think Tom Brady is over-rated. I think most of the credit for their success is Belicheck. Look at how unknown and lowly drafted players become All-stars. If the same players go elsewhere they often stink. That is Belichick - he has set up a system that any half way decent player can do well in. Look at their injuries. They rarely get any because the players don't have to try that hard. They make it look easy. In 2007 that team was like a computer when they played games. No one was injured and they just moved into position and did what they needed to do and the rest was easy. I feel, especially in 2007, that they won most of those games before the games were even played. They "figured out" their opponents ahead of time.

Look at when Brady went down. They still won a lot of games with Cassell and would have won the AFC East if Miami wasn't there.

I feel Brady has gotten better (by 2007 he was drinking the Belichick kool-aid and was actually an excellent QB) and certainly he will be considered superb by his Superbowl wins but I will always put him below Marino and Montana and others. I think once he is gone Belichick will continue to win with any stiff at QB. If Belichick continues to "figure out" opponents then Brady will continue to play well because of the plan. If Brady went to Dallas or Denver or any half way decent team right now his stats will drop like a rock.

 

Now you see what I see, Sims would move inside and the WR's/Rb's will have to pick up the slack

 

One day we'll find out who's more responsible for the Patriots' success (once Brady retires). Just keep in mind Belichick had a losing record in Cleveland, and also in NE before Brady. Since Brady, it's 4 Super Bowl wins and playoffs (almost) every year except when he was injured (and 2002). Anyway, wait a few years and we'll see what happens.

 

More like opposite of homer talk.

All teams have weaknesses in depth. All teams are two or so of the right players away from having to rely on someone who isn't proven.

The illusion of depth hasn't existed since salary cap. Some teams have depth in the a few areas, however barely any anywhere else.

Basically you are complaining about something that exists for all teams.

if Grimes goes down one of the other cornerbacks are going to have to step up. If a TE goes down, they are going to have to run a lot of 3 and 4 wide receiver sets. Luckily they have good depth at receiver and play a spread running offense that is not really based on beating teams on the punch.

 

No way to know, but I seriously doubt they'd be more than a slight % higher, if at all. Unless of course he was still allowed to develop with all the cheating they did in the past...who can say how much that extra helmet speaker aided in his growth up there. I'll never consider them a legit dynasty or all-time great team. Yes, the hoodie is a sick good coach, but how much of that was borne from breaking the rules? And if you don't need to cheat to win, why f***ing do it? Where you see a roach, there's hundreds more in hiding.

Brady wouldn't have been jack schit w/o BB and the Cheatriots...no way he has a "great" career anywhere else, all things considered. The way NE coddled him and slowly developed him worked for him...highly doubt he gets that chance on most teams. It's almost a freak thing that Miami has developed RT slowly without the coach going away or other QB prospects drafted/traded in. He was basically carried through his first 3 rings by a good overall team...with some cheating sprinkled in...he didn't really peak until being in the league 7 years.

That said, until they slip up (obviously I don't mean cheating...they get away with that easy enough), the division is basically theirs to lose. It's such a shame the NFL has let them get away with the full slate of crap they've pulled over the years, basically unscathed. Wouldn't make a bit of difference for the Dolphins, it's just pathetic for the game. They've made a mockery of the entire league, and are sitting back laughing about it. He's a sham.

 

Take away Marcia and Gronk, and the Cheatriots don't even sniff a winning record. Hell, just take away Gronk and they don't make the playoffs IMO..."MAYBE" a wildcard.

 

11-5 with Matt Cassell in 2008

 

Amen. We'll never be able to quantify exactly how much their cheating helped them, unfortunately, but it had to have been just enough to push them over the edge they felt they needed.

Belicheat runs a very, VERY tight ship, where his players are concerned. He is more demanding of them than any coach I know of. That's why he wins with no-names. Their level of discipline on the field is borderline insanity...and THAT'S a much bigger factor toward their success than Marcia. Why do players leave there and suck? Why does every coordinator that leaves there fail as an HC? I don't think Revis will, but he's by far the exception.

Give Grappaho a few more years of learning and backing up...he'll pick right up where Marcia leaves off...maybe a slight drop, but they'll still be contenders.

 

Uh-oh, here comes the "they dropped in record by 5 games!!" argument...as if 16-0 is a comparable norm.

Funny how, the next year Brady was back, they got worse than with Cassell and went 10-6...they averaged 12 wins for the next 5 years, a whole 1 more than Cassell.

 

Also like the only year they missed the playoffs.

Frankly, in the hurry to say one is more influential than the other, we forget the simple fact that both might simply be all time greats. It happens. Walsh/Montana/Rice come to mind.

 

Or it's a mixture of a few things. Belichek being the coach he is kept the team together. The colts thought they were sucking for Luck, and even if it wasn't so, the sentiment was there. They just tanked. You also can't discount the replacements of either. Cassell is out of a job right now but he replicated some of that same ability two years later in KC and even made the playoffs.

 

IMO Brady was the bigger reason early on, but for the last several years I feel that Brady has been dropping and BB has gotten better. Brady was great so him dropping a bit is still very good, but I think that BB was the bigger factor in their success. This year while I believe the rest of the AFC has gained ground, I also feel that Brady will continue to decline. I'm hoping that combined with the losses on defense and throughout the roster and a little less cheating on the TO front that they fall back to the pack.