http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...out-the-poor-that-will-absolutely-astound-you
Eh, this is rarely discussed, which is one of the reasons why I hit on the theme of increasing self reliance as Federal Govt spending is at an all time high, but it is not stemming the growing number in deep poverty.
However, no matter how much one may practice effective self reliance, there is no substitute for a cash flow from a job, and those aren't being created.
So to my worldview, the next step is to open mini businesses, which then delve into the gray area of receiving Govt largesse and making a mini income to supplement it.
Which is a topic, to me, which is also unaddressed.
-
-
Since when did you become a liberal?
-
I don't understand how a concern with fellow Americans makes one a liberal or a conservative. That should transcend political perspective.
shula_guy likes this. -
In this instance, the books were cooked for political purposes, and to suit the worldview of the current head cheese. -
This is a reality for a growing number of Americans, to me the question then becomes "what next"?
On many different levels.
To me, the economic genius of America is such conditions do breed intense, motivation, and creativity and what have you, however this is extreme poverty, even by .Gov standards, should nothing be done? if something, then how much and what? -
The odd thing is, the Gov is so involved in the economy that the first impulse is political, not economic, for my outlook it disconcerts me that the wealthiest place in the US is no longer Silicon Valley, it is the ring of plush estates just outside of DC. -
I have actually seen an uptick in the work people are doing. I do high end basement finishing and I can say people are spending money. I have signed 3 in the last 2 months and getting ready to sign a forth Friday. I have to tell you though that I have tried to hire 4 different guys in the last 2 months.
The guys I actually hired had to have only 5 qualifications:
1. No tattoos on face, neck or arms. Hidden don't give a ****
2. Have transportation
3. Have common sense, and be respectful
4. Speak English
5. Show up on time
None have made it more then 3 days working . All have quit for various reasons. It is unbelievable how lazy people are.......screw them. One guy told me he was just going to go get food stamps. It was easy he said..4 of his other friends got them and they only have to work every now and then. If I needed him every now and then, he could use the cash. I should call him.......sure I will - when hell freezes over -
Purchasing power is informative, but this measure of inequality is also useful. The Cubans, for example, had much higher purchasing power relative to other Latin American countries, but it was the internal disparities that contributed to their revolutionary unrest, not the realization that their poor were better off than the average Bolivian.unluckyluciano likes this. -
Not sure what your interest, but think "green" business's may face some squeezing and look elseware. When Barnake's inflation hits like he wants...and the staglation he didn't...guess thats food for your mini-busiess...Padre Noodles? -
Now do keep in mind the paradox of "le't shop at Walmart they save me money!" and 'Dude, where's my job".
Read some thief stole the copper sword that was on Lincolcn's tomb, that is sort of a sign of how bad things are for some folks. -
Sorry I kinda got backed up, but I was being sarcastic about my "liberal" remark since me and Padre go way back to old POFO days. Anyways, I read an article that people in my age demographic(18-35) are a whopping 68% poorer compared to the same age demographic 15-20 years ago. In other words, in the early 90s when my parents were just getting on their feet at roughly the same age I am now(Im 25 now and my parents had me young), they had 68% more purchasing power than I do now. 20 years ago, if I was 25, I could afford to buy a place to live, own a car(maybe two if I was married), be able to furnish the house and buy appliances(with credit likely too), be able to afford health insurance, and live modestly, if not somewhat comfortable. I'm 25 and still living with relatives trying to work my *** off with two jobs just so I can save enough to live on my own, in a much cheaper area than South Florida for sure.
padre31 likes this. -
There is an entire generation who pretty much is not approaching American Dream type of standard of living, more like post WW2 recession standards, or the Carter Era standards.
That said, the key for me, and one of my interests is...so now what can be done, what can people accomplish, for themselves, to make things better for themselves?
Until such a serious, rational, discussion is held, or better yet, becomes a part of people's thinking, the personal economies of millions of Americans will be rather hopeless really, imo. -
shula_guy Well-Known Member
We have so many contributing factors that I'm not even sure where to begin.
1. Everytime we print more money it robs everyone of the spending power they have.
2. The more the gov spends, the greater the tax burden it needs to put on us and robs us of our spending power.
3. The gov needs to stop preventing larger businesses from failing. It is hard enough for a small business to compete against corporate buying power and with the gov assisting them it makes it almost impossible.
4. The progressive tax system we use penalizes peoples success. In essence, at least to a certain extent, it does not encourage people to work harder at earning more.
5. Unequal trade balance between exports and imports are hurting us
6. Illegal workers who wire money out of the country robs our economy of growth.
7. Artificaly esculated prices on essential commodities like energy decrease our spending ability.
There is not one solution that will fix what is broken and what needs to be done is a painful reality that people do not want to face. If I were king I would:
A) switch to the fair tax
B) Cut the federal gov budget by 50%
C) Eliminate all gov subsidies that cost us more then we get in return for them
D) impliment tariff fees on imports and fees on money wires that leave our borders.Stitches likes this. -
The fascinating thing about the 68% decrease is educational level virtually does not matter, everyone has taken a haircut save for the top income earners, who are getting massively wealthy, BA's and even PhD's.
Taxation is also at the lowest level it has been at since the income tax scale was first foisted on the public as a "soak the rich" cannard in 1917, and yet, the trend is for wealth to accumulate at the top at a stunning rate.
So do tell ShulaGuy, what, exactly, would lowering tax rates further accomplish? Isn't the ideal tax rate in your philosophy -0-, and things such as Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid have to be abolished?FinSane likes this. -
If you want to believe its by some grand conspiracy, fine. The top 5% and governments can be just as stupid to enact economic plans that threatens the PTB, economic instability, as the rest of us with and our economic instability, debt consumption. But given the track record of the results of market and economic manipulation, that backlash on the 5% is going to be huge boon to the under 95%. -
Problem being, the perceived value of Community college is quite low, I happened to catch a show on MTV that featured a NJ dad talking to his daughter about going to CC to save money, she literally burst into tears and wailed about how "that was for losers", the dad punked out and ponied up the outrageous money for Rutgers tuition.
Even when she lived close enough to home, the mandatory one yr in the dorms, at 18k, made no sense at all.
That is the story of the American Economy in a nutshell Eshlemon, people have lost the Power to say "no".
Conspiracies require secrecy Eshlemon, there is no secrecy to this, you, I think, are old enough to recall Ross Perot speaking about "the giant sucking sound of jobs going to Mexico" only at the time, know one could have known that even those jobs would wind up in China.
Only a dunce, or a fool, or those foolishly optimistic could not have seen this coming, no need for a conspiracy. -
If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten my AA and then transferred to a real college. AA is a much cheaper way of getting the BS classes out of the way. In real college you spend a lot of money to take classes that are BS. I have zero need for my 40 or so credits of Humanities or Liberal arts.padre31 likes this. -
The difference in money is also simply incredible, like 5k vs 35k depending on mandatory dorm policies.
But there it is, and that is but one of a host of things that "we" do that make -0- sense from any standpoint other then perceived value.
Basically, Americans are behaving rather dimly in a get smart world and it bothers me to no end. -
I went to college because it was the next step, not because I had a goal in mind.padre31 likes this. -
Was at the public transport station this afternoon waiting on my ride, and was minding my own business but happened to overhear a conversation between this young dude and his boy, and basically it went like this:
"Yeah, so I got arrested for a DWI, and my "sherry" bailed me out for 500 dollars, 3 days later my probation officer called me to tell me to turn myself in, she was going to violate me, so I'm packing while she is talking and I got out of town for a couple of months, "sherry" called me and told me that I had wasted the power bill money, her fault, she put up that money right"?
Now, I don't blame the dude, in a sense, he is right, isn't he?
Old friend who I've known for yrs has a family, on his wife's side, that is constantly in trouble with the law, middle class values types, kids take the CC route, or won athletic scholaships, on minimal budgets, they simply put the local county jail's phone number on "call block" so they will never be called for "500 dollars for bail".
That to me, is the difference between kinda dumb, and "get smart", if you don't have much money to begin with, why mess around with that young dude and then after finding out how much trouble he has been in, put the power bill money up for bail?
I can understand the "but I love him!" stuff, but then again, why **** around with a screwball when times are so tight for your family? -
i have been studying the german model and i like it. the nordic model is unworkable at the scale of the US imo
funny thing is, we work more than them and are more productive than them and yet are compensated less
the post-1980 world is the "race to the bottom" contributing to the fall of wages that necessitated access to credit in order to supplement consumption and savings (houses as retirement accounts). dont be misled that most people bought 2nd houses out of greed. it was desperation. people in the 40s started realizing they no hope for a comfortable retirement. only the hopeless double down at the casino -
Meaning the "girlfriend" should have not messed around with that dude, and it cost them, for the middle class the double down at the housing casino did not pay off either.
Now if that money had been put into say..gold, in 02 it was 345 pr oz or so, but instead of sitting on it like a hen on an egg, it should be flipped and put into something else.
You bring up a common point Maynard, and to me the real hay to be made in the US is in reducing costs at every possibility, and to do so by choice and strategy instead of only when you "have" to, by then it is to late so to speak.
"if" one has just a modest amount to invest, check out the bowser report, google it and you'll see.maynard likes this. -
shula_guy Well-Known Member
I am not sure what it is your asking me or rather how its relative to my post. I never said lower taxes. The fair tax does not lower tax burdens it makes it more clear on what your paying and to whom your paying it too. It also does not penalize people for what they earn but instead tacks its burden onto the back end, at the point of purchase, giving the consumer the option of not buying a product and avoiding any taxes associated with that purchase.
I am not an advocate of a 0% tax policy. That would mean 0% government and no national defense. I acknowledge government has a limited role to serve the greater good of society. The debate for me is where to draw that line between the private and public sector and how much of the two is appropiate to overlap. There is also a question of what should be handled on a federal level and what should be done at a state level.
SS Im not sure what to do about it. It is too expensive to keep the current model and its unfair to not give people what they were promised to get out of it after they have been paying into it. The gov entered into a contract with them and should honor its obligation but if it means bankrupting the nation, then what? It needs to be reformed I just do not know exactly how.
Our healthcare system is a huge ripoff. You can put medicare/medicade into the whole mess along with insurance companies, obamacare, and peoples lack of attention to how much medical services cost. -
I have a question for those wanting a fair tax. How is a fair tax really fair if a millionaire and I both pay say....20%? 20% is nothing to a millionaire but alot of to someone making $15,000-$30,000. Every fair tax proposal I've seen seems to be another tax scam.
-
That assumes my dollars and the wealthiest 1% dollars have the same practical value, and that is not the case.
And logically, the end of your position is 0% taxation, "if" reducing taxes provides benefit "X", then eliminating them would provide even more of that benefit as the scale slides downwards.
-
shula_guy Well-Known Member
-
-
-
shula_guy Well-Known Member
It does not assume money has the same practicle value in fact it does the opposite. It assumjes the wealthiest will spend more money and in turn pay more taxes. It also eliminates all loopholes and makes paying taxes a straight forward process.
-
shula_guy Well-Known Member
-
And that logic was proven untrue in the late 80's/early 90's when planes and yachts were subject to special taxes, the wealthy simply either no longer bought them, or bought them offshore.
As for "obstical", indeed, best interests and all of that. -
And let me add, the wealthy also have access to the legislative pen, making it far more likely that they can avoid any such scheme successfully, wereas "I" cannot, why should anyone outside of that upper echelon be willing to roll the dice for..no measurable benefit? -