Future NFL Coaches?
34 replies
Galantforum_veteranOPLet me say, right off the bat, that I'm not advocating for, or assuming, a replacement of Brian Flores.
I just saw this article, thought it was interesting, and wanted to share it because I figure many others here will find it interesting too - whether or not you think Flores should be on the move away from Miami.
So here you go - Young NFL Coaches to Watch (NFL.com):
Nathaniel Hackett, Byron Leftwich, Patrick Graham among young NFL coaches to watch
"Although we are capable of great acts of kindness, history teaches us that we sometimes need saving from ourselves – from our recklessness or our greed. God sent into the world a unique person – neither a philosopher nor a general, important though they are, but a Saviour, with the power to forgive... It is my prayer that on this Christmas day we might all find room in our lives for the message of the angels and for the love of God through Christ our Lord." (Christmas message, 2011)
Unlucky 13subscriberWhen we replace Flores, I absolutely want nothing to do with yet another rookie HC, who doesn't know what he's doing and needs to learn on the job.
"Unlucky 13 wrote:
When we replace Flores, I absolutely want nothing to do with yet another rookie HC, who doesn't know what he's doing and needs to learn on the job.
Isn't the problem with hiring experienced head coaches is that they are a reason they are available? The Rieds of the NFL don't come on the market very often. A lot of folks thought Gruden was a good answer and who knows what he's up to anymore. Rookie head coaches seem like a game of russian roulette we are forced to play.
Unlucky 13subscriber"plc001 wrote:
Isn't the problem with hiring experienced head coaches is that they are a reason they are available? The Rieds of the NFL don't come on the market very often. A lot of folks thought Gruden was a good answer and who knows what he's up to anymore. Rookie head coaches seem like a game of russian roulette we are forced to play.
Stable, quality organizations like the Steelers and Packers can hire first time guys, and provide them with the right situation to maximize their skills and grow into the job. The Dolphins clearly cannot.
While hiring the next Andy Reid who needs a scenery change is the ideal answer, you're right that it only happens once or twice a decade. But there is success to be found with hiring second tier guys who change jobs for whatever reason as well. It doesn't mean that they suck, it just could be that the situation changed and both parties decided to move on.
Many of the best coaches in NFL history found their greatest success at their second stop, including out own Don Shula.
Marty Schotenheimer, Bill Belichick, Chuck Knox, Tom Coughlin, Mike Shanahan, Mike Holmgren, Pete Carroll, Marv Levy, Tony Dungy, Dick Vermeil, and Bruce Arians are all examples of highly successful HCs who's greatest success came after their first job, or at least who also had great success at another stop.
My ideal choice is Kyle Shanahan in SF, but after MNF, it looks like his arrow there might be on the way back up again. We shall see.
KeyFinforum_veteranPersonally, I think we need to figure out GM 1st before even thinking about Flores. And if the next few weeks show the same level of defensive dominance that we just saw against Baltimore, then I'm going to be pretty quick to say that we don't need a new head coach at all.
With that said, our owner desperately wants to hire a Harbaugh. If one of them agreed (most likely Jim), Flores would be out on the street tomorrow.
Winning football games at any level comes down to winning in the trenches.
mlb1399forum_veteran"KeyFin wrote:
Personally, I think we need to figure out GM 1st before even thinking about Flores. And if the next few weeks show the same level of defensive dominance that we just saw against Baltimore, then I'm going to be pretty quick to say that we don't need a new head coach at all.
With that said, our owner desperately wants to hire a Harbaugh. If one of them agreed (most likely Jim), Flores would be out on the street tomorrow.
This x1000
Flores needs to figure his OC coordinator and OL coach but I’m not ready to move on.
Ive seen enough of Grier’s drafts to not want to ever see him in charge of a draft again.
Unlucky 13subscriber"KeyFin wrote:
Personally, I think we need to figure out GM 1st before even thinking about Flores. And if the next few weeks show the same level of defensive dominance that we just saw against Baltimore, then I'm going to be pretty quick to say that we don't need a new head coach at all.
With that said, our owner desperately wants to hire a Harbaugh. If one of them agreed (most likely Jim), Flores would be out on the street tomorrow.
Oh, I absolutely want to fire Grier and replace him with Thomas Dimitroff. That's step one, if you're letting me play owner.
Dol-Fan Dupreeforum_veteran"Unlucky 13 wrote:
Oh, I absolutely want to fire Grier and replace him with Thomas Dimitroff. That's step one, if you're letting me play owner.
Gross. I don't want Thomas Dimitroff anywhere near Miami.
Holland is a huge upgrade over McCain
I want to be alive, I am alive! Alive, I tell you! Mother, I love you, those are no longer just words. I want to hold you, I want to run in a stream, I want to taste ice cream but not just put it in my mouth and let it slide down my throat but really eat it. - Robot Morty
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"KeyFin wrote:
Personally, I think we need to figure out GM 1st before even thinking about Flores. And if the next few weeks show the same level of defensive dominance that we just saw against Baltimore, then I'm going to be pretty quick to say that we don't need a new head coach at all.
With that said, our owner desperately wants to hire a Harbaugh. If one of them agreed (most likely Jim), Flores would be out on the street tomorrow.
I have no idea why Ross has a viagra induced erection for Harbaugh. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a good coach but we need to address to GM issue before ANYTHING else.
Grier has GOT to go!!!!
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:
Gross. I don't want Thomas Dimitroff anywhere near Miami.
I want Ross to pull a page out of Joe Robbies playbook…
Hire Brett Veach from Kansas City and offer Veach a 10-15% ownership stake in the team. I truly think that would be a good incentive to produce a good team…
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
Dol-Fan Dupreeforum_veteran"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
I want Ross to pull a page out of Joe Robbies playbook…
Hire Brett Veach from Kansas City and offer Veach a 10-15% ownership stake in the team. I truly think that would be a good incentive to produce a good team…
The guy who took over for the overrated John Dorsey, I like it.
Holland is a huge upgrade over McCain
I want to be alive, I am alive! Alive, I tell you! Mother, I love you, those are no longer just words. I want to hold you, I want to run in a stream, I want to taste ice cream but not just put it in my mouth and let it slide down my throat but really eat it. - Robot Morty
"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
I want Ross to pull a page out of Joe Robbies playbook…
Hire Brett Veach from Kansas City and offer Veach a 10-15% ownership stake in the team. I truly think that would be a good incentive to produce a good team…
lol.. 10-15% of the Dolphins is worth maybe $300 million to $500 million!! Belichick is the highest paid coach in professional sports with 6 SB rings and also being a GM, and he's making $18 million per year. Flores makes $3 million.
So think maybe 0.1% = $3 million stake is more realistic. Either way, I don't think such stock options would change the fortunes of the franchise. Coaches and GMs have more than enough motivation to succeed, and you're not really adding much by giving them stock.
Unlucky 13subscriber"Unlucky 13 wrote:
Oh, I absolutely want to fire Grier and replace him with Thomas Dimitroff. That's step one, if you're letting me play owner.
Hired not one, but two different head coaches who took the Falcons to the NFC title game, including one who went to the SB and had a big lead in the game.
Six different seasons in the playoffs.
10 playoff games.
Reached the Divisional Round four times. (something Miami hasn't done since 2000)
Four 11+ win seasons
Two 13 win seasons (something Miami hasn't done since 1985)
Almost never drafted a bust in the 1st or 2nd round
Drafted twelve different players who made the Pro Bowl
At 55 years old, could lead the team for the next decade potentially
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
lol.. 10-15% of the Dolphins is worth maybe $300 million to $500 million!! Belichick is the highest paid coach in professional sports with 6 SB rings and also being a GM, and he's making $18 million per year. Flores makes $3 million.
So think maybe 0.1% = $3 million stake is more realistic. Either way, I don't think such stock options would change the fortunes of the franchise. Coaches and GMs have more than enough motivation to succeed, and you're not really adding much by giving them stock.
Joe Robbie lured Don Shula from Baltimore with a 10% ownership stake in the team :wink2:
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
Joe Robbie lured Don Shula from Baltimore with a 10% ownership stake in the team :wink2:
Apparently that 10% stake was worth $750,000 in 1969, which is $21 million today taking inflation into account. $21 million is 0.7% of the lower end of the scale of what the Dolphins are worth. So realistically you'd offer 0.1% for a normal coach/GM up to 0.7% for a potential all-time great, but definitely not 10-15% given how much more valuable an NFL franchise is today compared to 1969.
Dorfdadforum_veteran"Unlucky 13 wrote:
When we replace Flores, I absolutely want nothing to do with yet another rookie HC, who doesn't know what he's doing and needs to learn on the job.
we have done this for the last 20 years almost and it always turns out the same. You g coached with a talented team work out better but a rookie coach needing to build from ground up and learn suck so bad
Vertical Limitforum_veteranThere were people on this site that really wanted Jeff Fisher… never forget..
texanphinaticforum_veteran"Vertical Limit wrote:
There were people on this site that really wanted Jeff Fisher… never forget..
Hey being 8/8 would be an accomplishment this season.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
Apparently that 10% stake was worth $750,000 in 1969, which is $21 million today taking inflation into account. $21 million is 0.7% of the lower end of the scale of what the Dolphins are worth. So realistically you'd offer 0.1% for a normal coach/GM up to 0.7% for a potential all-time great, but definitely not 10-15% given how much more valuable an NFL franchise is today compared to 1969.
And it’s this low balling, inside the box thinking that has doomed the Dolphins to mediocrity since Shula’s retirement…and will continue to do so.
Getting paid to do a job is one thing…to have an actual quantifiable stake that determines the success or failure of an organization is something completely different. Until Miami makes an unprecedented move, we will continue to be a mediocre team
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
And it’s this low balling, inside the box thinking that has doomed the Dolphins to mediocrity since Shula’s retirement…and will continue to do so.
Getting paid to do a job is one thing…to have an actual quantifiable stake that determines the success or failure of an organization is something completely different. Until Miami makes an unprecedented move, we will continue to be a mediocre team
Dude.. giving someone up front half a billion dollars just to switch organizations would be one of the dumbest moves any owner could make. Money is in hand, and the GM/HC can perform as poorly as he wants and he's half a billion richer lol. Even if he loses every game that half a billion in stock is likely to increase in value given historical NFL team valuations. That's just stupid.
No, you want a salary-based model with at most a small stake. There has to be constant incentive to perform well, and you don't get that when the guy is suddenly half a billion richer with no need to perform well to keep that money.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
Dude.. giving someone up front half a billion dollars just to switch organizations would be one of the dumbest moves any owner could make. Money is in hand, and the GM/HC can perform as poorly as he wants and he's half a billion richer lol. Even if he loses every game that half a billion in stock is likely to increase in value given historical NFL team valuations. That's just stupid.
No, you want a salary-based model with at most a small stake. There has to be constant incentive to perform well, and you don't get that when the guy is suddenly half a billion richer with no need to perform well to keep that money.
Okay, so let me get this straight…
Stephen Ross owns 95% of the Miami Dolphins, a team valued at $3.42 billion and you have a problem with trying to lure a bonafide successful General Manager with a 10% ownership stake in the team…because he would be making TOO much????
Yea, because Ross owning $3.25 billion solely has worked out…how?
I’d WILLINGLY pay a GM that much in ownership if he could build us a perineal playoff team competing for the Super Bowl every year…
But if you believe Ross and his nearly sole ownership of the team has worked out well…
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
Okay, so let me get this straight…
Stephen Ross owns 95% of the Miami Dolphins, a team valued at $3.42 billion and you have a problem with trying to lure a bonafide successful General Manager with a 10% ownership stake in the team…because he would be making TOO much????
Yea, because Ross owning $3.25 billion solely has worked out…how?
I’d WILLINGLY pay a GM that much in ownership if he could build us a perineal playoff team competing for the Super Bowl every year…
But if you believe Ross and his nearly sole ownership of the team has worked out well…
No, I have a problem with two things:
1) No incentive to perform well. Giving a person up front half a billion dollars that they're not going to lose no matter how poorly they perform is just stupid. You've made them rich beyond belief and there's no reason for them to do anything more to remain rich.
2) Thinking GMs and HCs will somehow magically perform better if you give them such a huge amount. They're already more than motivated enough to do well. Motivation isn't the issue.
The solution therefore is to offer who you want whatever it takes to lure them over but put them on an incentive laden contract so they ONLY earn that money if they perform well. In other words, give them a high salary but do NOT give them more than a very small percentage of the franchise itself (max 1% and that's probably overdoing it).
Dol-Fan Dupreeforum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
No, I have a problem with two things:
1) No incentive to perform well. Giving a person up front half a billion dollars that they're not going to lose no matter how poorly they perform is just stupid. You've made them rich beyond belief and there's no reason for them to do anything more to remain rich.
2) Thinking GMs and HCs will somehow magically perform better if you give them such a huge amount. They're already more than motivated enough to do well. Motivation isn't the issue.
The solution therefore is to offer who you want whatever it takes to lure them over but put them on an incentive laden contract so they ONLY earn that money if they perform well. In other words, give them a high salary but do NOT give them more than a very small percentage of the franchise itself (max 1% and that's probably overdoing it).
you are just arguing against American Capitalism.
Holland is a huge upgrade over McCain
I want to be alive, I am alive! Alive, I tell you! Mother, I love you, those are no longer just words. I want to hold you, I want to run in a stream, I want to taste ice cream but not just put it in my mouth and let it slide down my throat but really eat it. - Robot Morty
Unlucky 13subscriber"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:
you are just arguing against American Capitalism.
When I do that, someone reports me and the post is deleted fir being political :glare:
"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:
you are just arguing against American Capitalism.
Depends on the job. Some jobs it's really hard to fire someone for bad performance, but in a lot of jobs you'll get fired if you don't do well and with good job performance you'll make more. Certainly in the case of the NFL, coaches and players are fired for bad performance and you tend to get a much higher salary the better you do so at least in the NFL it's mostly performance based. That's true for the most successful franchises too, so it's not like if you should try changing the model to one with little incentive to succeed given that the most successful franchises use performance based contracts.
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