I say give him a chance and see if the "chip" on his shoulder that has been talked about maybe what he needs to get the job done

 

Has any Dolphins fan figured out why he was pulled from Kick and Punt returns yet?

It's not like there was a spike in numbers when he was taken off of both. In fact there was probably a drop in the numbers.

And it's not like he's the prototypical #1 WR where he's on the field every down. They've been rotating receivers in and out. And also with the wildcat, he's not needed on the field as much as normal #1 Wideouts.

I just don't get it.

 

the blocking must get better

 

Good. I mean God forbid we actually make it past the 16 for once, why would we ever want that? Ginn needs to be on KR and PR. Cobbs was average, and Bess is average, Ginn has big play potential, we seen that his rookie year.

 

Because in the NFL running straight ahead and out running everyone doesnt happen 24/7.

Rememeber what type of WR he is. He likes to be a burner, on the outside, avoiding contact as much as possible. Thats just who he is. Its who he loves to be and always has been that way. The man gets a high off of blasting by you, catching the pass and getting to the endzone, laughing all the way there as no one can be as fast as him. He doesnt like to go over the middle and make that dangerous catch, with the safety comming in to take your head off, to get that first down through the middle of the field. He just doesnt like to get hit.

In college special teams where you could blast by everyone with your speed that was fine. But in the NFL where you need to actually take a chance and squirt through a hole or two, guys like him dont have the mental makeup for it so you would need EXCEPTIONAL BLOCKING, not just good, in order for him to be successful. If not, then you'll get what we've gotten from him, and why he doesnt return kicks, which is a very tentative guy out there who only when he sees the huge hole will he take a chance, because if not then you'll usually see him get worse yardage than someone else like Cobbs or Bess out there, guys who dont care about getting hit and will go crazy.

 

I want to see Ginn back there - particularly on kick off returns. I think once he gets a bit of a rhythm back there, he will start being productive and give us some big plays and much better field position.

 

Because he was ineffective.

Unfortunately, that's not correct. Last year he was significantly worse than Bess on punt returns and worse than both Bess and Cobbs on kick returns. Admittedly no one was very good, which is why Cribbs from the Browns is so enticing for the Phins.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2008.htm

 

thats nothing but your opinion and is in MY opinion an uninformed one. You know nothing about what Ginn likes or doesn't. Anyone that returns kicks in the NFL has a BIG set of brass balls.

This whole post is nothing but a crappy attempt to insult Ted.. and shows little understanding of what is really happening...

were you a Quinn lover who was jilted?

 

I was. :yes:

 

of the gripes i've had this season, this was a doozie. WHY are we not putting Ginn in position to be successful, like the Iggles and Desean Jackson. Get him back on Kick-offs. its one of the things he does best. That last drive against the Jests, I seriously do not know if we would've won, had it not been Ginn back there taking it out to our 30. He WILL score TDs on kick return. He's done it each year. We have no hopes on return with Bess and anyone else returning. The thing with Bess, at least he gets a solid avg, and handles the ball very carefully. But Kick Return, usually after a score, we need good returns with homerun potential. Thats Ginn.

 

This.

 

I just don't understand how people can say Ginn is not a good kick returner with a straight face. It's just ridiculous. Did you watch him at all in college? Did you watch him return multiple kicks for touchdowns in the NFL? Sure, a couple were called back by holding calls, but those didn't impact the play at all in my opinion. I don't see how people can say that in the NFL pure speed won't work when the fact is that when Ginn is returning kicks, we score touchdowns on returns. When was the last time Cobbs or Bess scored a returning touchdown? Let alone returning multiple touchdowns? Give Ginn one crease and he's gone, not getting tackled from behind or forced out by the kicker. I'll take "avoiding contact" and running out of bounds allll day as long as we have the strong possibility of a touchdown. It's not like anyone else did better.

 

It's easy. I watch him return kicks, see how unsuccessful he is, and draw the appropriate conclusion. Your post is sort of like a Jet fan saying how he doesn't know how someone can say Vernon Gholston is not a good pass rusher. The fact is, he isn't. The fact is, he's so bad he can't get on the field. Sure, he was a monster in college. This isn't college.

When is the last time Ginn did? He has one punt return for a TD in his career, in 2007. No kickoff returns for a TD. He was mediocre overall as a returner in 2007. Ever since, he has been worse.

And I'll take starting on the 25 instead of the 15, thanks. Anyway, we don't have the strong possibility of a touchdown. One TD in 32 punt returns and 99 kickoff returns over three years is not a "strong possibility of a touchdown".

But Bess and Cobbs both did better. Look it up.

 

If he really wants to do it, why not give him another shot at it? Sounds like he's got something to prove.

 

^, GInn did have 3 KR TDs in 07 and 2 PR TDS in 07. They were just called back. Not his fault our ST unit isn't good. With Ginn, we know he can take it all the way. With Bess and Cobbs, the best we can hope for is to get past the 20.

 

Why did he make the probowl?

 

?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Pro_Bowl

 

The main reason they had no problem replacing him as return man.....

 

Our blocking scheme just doesnt fit Ginns style...he is a catch it and take off guy....our scheme is for a wall of blockers to tip toe back and he is supposed to run behind them and find a hole....frankly they slow him down.

And is there any arguement that in the Nat'l title game he was playing a team full of speedsters and he toasted them for a 100 yd kick return on the opening play, including all american Reggie Nelson who disappered in the screen at about the 40.

Put him back there have those three fat guys go block someone instead of holding hands and let Ginn go!

 

You guys are kidding me. Bess and Cobbs on returns are a joke. Period. Look at the jets game where towards the end we were barely making it to the 15. The very first return Ginn has he barely even takes a step and we're at the 30.

 

He was the third alternate returner for the 07 Pro Bowl. Not bad for a rookie who sucks at kick returns.

It's funny, our ST unit BLOWS, but everyone blamed Ginn. The Jets game was the perfect example of why Ginn should be back there. Cobbs had us starting behind the 20, Ginn comes in, takes one kick, and he's out to the 30.
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I'm not the biggest Ginn fan at all. In fact, if there were sides in the Ginn debate, I'd be on the Ginn bashers side rather than the Ginn apologist side.

As a WR he hasn't proved his worth yet. Although after Monday night I'm willing to see what he's got with Henne behind Center.

But from what I've seen over the past 3 years is that he's superior to Bess and Cobbs at returning kicks and punts. Show me numbers all you want, but I know what I see. Although Ginn isn't in the upper tier of return men, he's more dangerous then both Bess and Cobbs.

If I had to explain it, it'd be because the FO and coaches see Bess and Cobbs as more sure handed and less likely to fumble.

 

I've wanted to put him back there again just to get more value out of him....but it's not like he didn't have issues as a return man. He was far too tentative and in most cases he was barely average.

And acting like OMG he's so good why hasn't he always been back there, is ignoring the facts. He was never consistent enough to lock up the job so that should tell you something.

 

It's also ignoring the facts to act like he wasn't productive back there. He had 5 total special teams td's called back because of penalties away from the play. Ginn MADE PLAYS on special teams. Perhaps the horrific play of the ST unit factored into Ginn's tentativeness on returns. When you know that no one is going to block, it's hard to return kicks. Where do you run when no one's blocking? Ginn's strength is finding the seam, bustin through it to the open. His strength isn't breaking a couple tackles to get free. It's kinda like a couple seasons ago, people complaining about Ronnie being too tentative...when it was the oline sucking so bad that they couldn't open any holes for Ronnie to hit.
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Serious question:

You don't think this has anything to do with him being asked to be the teams #1 or #2 every down receiver?

Look at Hester. Quite possibly the best return man of the decade and he's been relieved of return duties because he's being asked to be the teams #1 or #2 every down receiver.

Same goes for Dominik Hixon on the Giants. Once Plax went down, Hixon was relieved of his return duties due to becoming an every down receiver.

Steve Smith of Carolina, etc.

Do you think this trend proves relevant when speaking of Ginn? I certainly do. Although I don't agree with it, I'd say that's the coaches motif.

 

That is funny, Ginn was heading out of bounds like his feet were out of alignment...:lol:

His problem on kick offs was really fairly simple, he hesitated before he stepped on the gas, at OSU he could wait for his blocks to develop more fully before heading upfield, in the NFL that doesn't work very well.


On punt he just muffed to many of them, so Bess was put back there and did an okay job of it.

That said, I'm 99.99% in favor of Teddy Ginn handling kicks again, we don't have anyone on the roster with even close to the potential that Ginn has returning kicks for us.

And if stays back there all season, he will break the 2,000 total yardage mark which to me is really what he should be good at doing, just producing yardage.

 

Well, Ginn plays Wr like he plays KR, it is either a home run, or it is not much.

To me, Ginn is now in position to be that all around threat he was envisioned being when he was drafted.

 

I didn't say he sucked as a rookie, I said he was mediocre. Which he was. Mediocre means average. Since then he has been below average.

I don't know if our special teams blocking is good or bad. I suspect it's average. Whatever it is, Bess and Cobbs were more successful with it than Ginn.

If we don't get Cribbs I have nothing against trying Ginn again. Maybe it's a question of confidence and he'll feel differently after the bomb from Henne (though he had a few long passes last year that didn't seem to help his return performance). Cobbs isn't an option anymore, after all, and Ginn is certainly faster than Bess. But I am not optimistic.

 

I'd say it's awful. I've seen nothing to determine it's even average.

 

First off, this analogy would be relevant if Vernon Gholston had something like five forced fumbles, sacks, and fumble recoveries for touchdowns in five plays.... But the cornerback was lined up offsides on four of them. Obviously that didn't happen, Gholston hasn't produced. Ted Ginn has, it just hasn't shown up on the stat sheet because of irrelevant penalties. Watch the game, not the stat sheet.

Asked, and already answered.

Also already covered. But whether you see five or one, the possibility is stronger than zero.

I have looked it up, by watching every Dolphins game since Ginn's been a Dolphin, and years before. Not only is it more entertaining then a stat sheet, but I think it is more effective in analysis. :confused2:

Our special teams blocking is absolutely not average.

 

This. How can anybody be happy with Cobbs bowling into defenders at the 15? Blocking isn't great and it's even worse with the new wedge rule but at least Ginn has the speed to get to the 25 before being hit, and most importantly, he has big play potential. You give him a crease and it could mean a huge play, something Cobbs, nor Bess have to offer.

 

You realize how absurd it sounds to make your point with
"they were just called back"
Jeez...this is football,results are required:shifty:

Oh,Ginn almost had a few touchdowns but the passes bounced off his hands...

 

Whether he's average or not, the point is he's better than Cobbs and Bess and has big play potential unlike Cobbs and Bess. Cobbs was horrible on KR, and while Bess has a decent PR average, he has 0% chance of making a play.

 

It's actually completely different. If Ginn had the chance for a few TD catches but dropped them, that's on him. If Ginn returns 3 kicks, and 2 Punts for TD's but have them called back for penalties his teammates made that weren't even relevant to the play, that's on his teammates :up:

 

Did you think about what you wrote before you wrote it? Seriously, I want to know. How does dropping passes have anything to do with a guy behind you, or on the complete other side of the field, committing a holding penalty that negates a td return? Ginn had FIVE TDs called back on penalties that were completely superflous...that is, had nothing to do with the play. The guys committed penalties after he was by them, or he was on the other side of the field from them. It may negate the TD, but it in no way negates Ginn's individual effort on those plays. In other words, it wasn't because he sucked at returns that he only had one TD.

By the way, our ST blocking is not even close to average. It is horrific. Our ST As a whole was terrible the last two years. Bad blocking on returns, and how many returns for TDs did we give up? It makes me sick just thinking about it.
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A deep threat yeah..."all around?".........no because that straight line speed isn't all that dangerous on a short field and he's not very physical.

But I'm with you on him returning kicks, it's not like we have anything better on the roster.

However, the fact that we asked about Cribbs tells you something concerning the Trifecta's thoughts on the subject.

 

really.....wow......because of one catch for a TD he has now elevated himself to possible elite status