I wonder how much Vance Joseph really "worked with" Mario in Hou. considering Joseph was a DB coach...

 

I believe this was a great trade for the Eagles. They got rid of two players who weren't in their plans next year and they moved up five places in the first round.

I NEVER believe in moving out of the top ten. The Dolphins have never had any success by moving down in the first round, but they have lost out on the opportunity to draft future all pros by doing do.

There is a reason the teams with the worst records get the first picks in the draft. Because this is where the best talent is generally available. The Dolphins traded for two players coming off injuries and moved out of a top 10 pick to the middle of the first round.

I don't agree with it, but then again I don't believe Tannebaum is suited to be the head of football operations. So him making this terrible trade is basically par for the course for him.

 

According to the article, the Dolphins did draft analysis and found that there wasn't much of a difference between pro-bowl players drafted at 8 vs 13. I think your point stands that they can't continue to have crappy drafts though.

In the last 10 years, we've only drafted 2 players who were pro-bowl caliber players with our first round pick. We need to get more bang for our buck in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

 

i just dont agree with that philosophy..every draft is different..

 

Its just picking the right guy really. Outside the top 4-5 guys there generally is a plateau for awhile. I mean we could still see Hargreaves potentially, A'Shawn Robinson, Ronnie Stanley, Floyd, etc. We have done a spectacularly poor job of drafting impact guys lately. Doesn't matter where we are/were, we just need to find that guy. TBH, at 8 we are missing Ramsey, Bosa, Jack and Buckner anyway.

 

That analysis might be accurate for teams who actually know something about drafting pro bowl talent. I just continue to have reservations regarding Tannebaum and his ability in building this team.

This is a fairly weak draft and the players I wanted them to possibly take in the first round will likely not be there at 13. So hopefully Tannebaum is a heck of a lot better in selecting pro bowl caliber players than I give him credit for.

 

Dion Jordan days "Hello," when discussing where the Dolphins pick. Seemingly, it doesn't matter where we pick in the first, we can't seen to get it right. We only have had a couple good picks in the last 10 years or so.

 

I'm with you there. Some years there are five impact players. Others ten or twenty. I would hope that Miami is smart enough that what they're really doing is saying that its a safe gamble that the position that they're targeting has enough depth that they'll have a good shot at getting one of their guys. In that case, for example if they feel that there's not a lot of difference between the top three corners, then they still get their guy in the draft that they would have taken at #8, and also get Maxwell and Alanso. Maybe Philly didn't feel as confidant that the position they're targeting is as deep.

 

Look at this draft though. After Ramsey or Jack, who have a 1% chance of falling to 8, who is that exciting to have to take at 8 that doesn't have someone who is close at 13?

 

I hate the trade. The draft is a crap shoot and teams do REALLY stupid stuff. Most of the teams in the top portion of the draft are always there because they stink at drafting. Players like Aaron Donald drop for no apparent reason in just about every draft. I think 5 spots in the draft is a big deal when it takes you out of the top 10. I hope Alonso is healthy because he's the only guy I like in the trade. And he hasn't done a thing since he was hurt in his rookie year. Its a big risk to think that a CB that was a bust in Philly will suddenly be better here in Miami and that a guy who hasn't been able to get healthy will all of the sudden return to form. I don't necessarily mind the move down I'd just have liked to get a good draft pick or a pencil in starter in return, not two guys that we can't count on starting or performing well. I don't like these moves prior to draft day, you never know what will happen. Remember we could have drafted Randy Moss the year we traded down and picked John Avery......

 

We got a starting CB, one with ideal size for this division with marshall and watkins, and kiko is sadly better than almost all the other LBs on our roster.

And we got them by moving back 5 spots. After Ramsey, you have a bunch of analyst opinions on Hargreaves, apple, and mccluster. One of them, if not 2 of them, will still be there at 13.

We turned 1 pick into 3 possible starters. Terrible trade my ***.

 

Funny you mention Aaron donald. Guess where he was taken...

Pick #13.

Sheldon Richardson too.

It's almost as if...you can still get a great player there...

 

Terrible trade for Miami, no other way to put it. Great deal for Philly, Howie Roseman is looking like the early candidate for executive of the year, he miraculously was able to unload Maxwell and Demarco Murray's contracts while also moving up in the 1st and 4th rounds of the draft. If the Dolphins were interested in Alonso they should've just negotiated a deal for him alone, given that the Eagles were having a fire sale on Chip Kelly's guys they probably could have pried Kiko away for a late round pick, a 5th or conditional 6th, no moving out of the top 10, no terrible contract added, just a low risk, high reward deal if Kiko can stay healthy and return to his rookie form.

when the trade was in limbo after news broke that Maxwell's physical didn't go well, all the Dolphin fans were hoping the deal was dead and all the Eagles fans were hoping the deal still went through...that pretty much tells you all you need to know.

 

lol cmon bro, I know having been crowned the King of Homers you feel obligated to support virtually every move this team makes...but we could have signed Jeremy Lane for less than half of what Maxwell makes...hell we could have signed two corners for the amount we're paying him, then pursued Alonso for a late round pick without moving out of the top 10 if Miami wanted him that bad.

2 of 3 between Jeremy Lane, Casey Heyward and Patrick Robinson
Kiko Alonso for a 5th/6th
8th pick in the 1st rnd

OR what we ultimately have now?

There's no way you'd choose the latter option, I mean please.

Also DJ already touched on this, but there's a reason why you rarely see movement in the draft this early in the process, unless a team blows you away with their offer like with RG3. You talk trade when you're on the clock, or when your pick is approaching, after you see how the selections play out, that's when the pressure is on and a team is desperate to move up to secure whatever player they covet.

 

This trade was actually a big gamble, but that doesn't mean it can't pay off, if they get a good starter with the pick, and 1 of the 2 players becomes a good starter, it's a win, if they come away with only 1 good starter it's a loss, if they get no good starters it's an unmitigated disaster, if they come away with 3 good starters it's a Roman triumph.

Time is the only thing that will tell in this trade, but the bigger picture is this entire draft and offseason, can these guys make this a better team, if they do, this trade doesn't make or break the success of this offseason.

 

I'm also in the group that doesn't like the trade. Yes, it could pay off, but what I don't like is Tannenbaum devaluing the draft so much. He's well known for trading away picks. I don't mind trading, but he's a bit obsessive with it.

Anyway, while I don't think the trade was a great idea, I'm not bothered by it much because I think the big move this offseason already occurred long time ago: hiring our new HC. This team has underperformed its paper talent in the past IMO, so HC was the offseason for me and I really really hope we got that one right.

 

I agree with the bolded, I don't trust or like Tbomb, I'm ok with trading picks, but I want more picks in return, but then I have to be confident in my ability to draft well.

Good teams are always drafting low, but stay good teams, bad teams are always drafting high and remain bad teams, good drafting teams don't need top 10 picks, the Steelers have 1 top 10 pick since 1990, in 2000, that's 16 years since they've had a top 10 pick, and that's the only top 10 pick they've had in 26 years, and they've been to 4 SBs in that time and have 2 wins.

As far as Gase, I am in wait and see mode.

 

You and I merely have a difference of opinion. Hopefully the trade will work out and the Dolphins will end up with three quality starters instead of one overpaid CB who isn't as good as Grimes and a LB who isn't on the injury list for the majority of the coming season.

I would rather have seen the Dolphins stay at 8 and not make this trade for two players the Eagles simply didn't want anymore. You are happy with the trade and I can certainly appreciate your viewpoint.

We are both Dolphin fans and all we want is for this team to get better. If this trade eventually shows that the team is better with Maxwell, Alonso, and the player they pick at 13, I will certainly be willing to admit I was wrong.

 

Between murray, maxwell, and kiko the Eagles traded away 3 starters and didn't accumulate a single extra pick. They created 3 holes and didn't fill 1.

Maxwell was actually a better cb than grimes last year. It's just that maxwells contract put him under so much more scrutiny.

Maxwells furst two games as an eagle were bad and that followed him all season, even though after that point he played much better.http://m.bleacherreport.com/article...uietly-solid-addition-for-philadelphia-eagles.

Worst case scenario, maxwell is wayyy better than taylor/brice mccain. And we're still in position to take mac alexander, the cb I think people are sleeping on in this draft.

Assuming we draft a good player at 13, this trade might be looked back on as the moment our defense came together.

 

Not according to the rankings.

 

They both had years that were down from how they previously played. However, I think that Maxwell has a much better chance to bouce back than Grimes does. His contract is the only real negative, but the Fins can cut him with no hit after 2017 if he's not worth it.

 

I hope you are correct.

 

This view of Maxwell is obviously just your opinion. Because it is not backed up by any rankings of DB's during the 2015 season. Every ranking I have seen of DB's for last season, Grimes was ranked much higher than Maxwell.

Perhaps Maxwell will work out for the Dolphins, but I still feel Grimes is the superior CB in every way. It is just too bad he is married to a crazy woman. Because if not for Miko, I believe Brent would still be a Miami Dolphin.

 

Three starters, but two with horrible contracts. You're not getting picks back on a salary dump.

 

Please explain in detail how kikos cap hit of LESS THAN 1 million is a horrible contract? The dude was DROTY when healthy. If he plays even close to how he was, he is a steal. Worth the gamble.

Love the irony of fans (of vontae davis' former team) complaining about picking up a new db from another team who flashed potential yet underperformed. Im sure Indy is pissed. Nothing is guaranteed.

 

It really shouldn't be that hard to replace 3 guys who weren't very good for you. Demarco was outperformed by his backup, Kiko Alonso flat out sucked even when healthy, Maxwell didn't play well at all, it was addition by subtraction, Philly's trades improved their draft picks in 2 rounds and cleared cap space which allowed them to make moves like bolstering the OL with Brandon Brooks and reuniting Nigel Bradham with Jim Schwartz who he flourished under in Buffalo...there was no gamble taken on Philly's end, we're the ones rolling the dice here, we took on salary, two reclamation projects and lost draft position.

I doubt that, Grimes was rated 39th, Maxwell 69th...both were bad.

 

While Im not disagreeing with the sentiment Miami has had this exact situation for years on the Oline and CB/LB positions they never seem to address.

 

Its going to be a hindsight trade.

If we blow the 13th pick its a horrible trade.

If Maxwell or Alonso sucks its a horrible trade.

If we get a damn good player at 13 and either player plays well it was as a great trade.

If Maxwell plays better in a scheme suited to him and Alonso plays well its a ****ing steal

If Maxwell plays better in a scheme suited to him and Alonso plays well and we pick well at 13 its a WTF Philly moment.

 

Nailed it.
Complaining about it right now is nothing short of dumb. How about we use our pick and let these guys play a snap? Do people forget we had to completely overhaul our defense? I think its well worth the gamble especially if they feel their man will be there at 13 anyway.

 

Two horrible contracts = Maxwell & Murray

 

Okay. So the deal is horrible for us before we can see how it pans out. That seems to be the line of thinking with several people here.

 

Maxwell's contract isn't horrible. It isn't going to tie Miami down in a bunch of dead money if he doesn't turn out to be the player they think he can be.

 

I'm not going to play the "Patience Brigade" game with you. Clearly anything can happen, but based on other scenarios already discussed - some of us feel this is not a good trade for the Dolphins.

 

You'll have to excuse me, but I have concerns with their projections of players as of late.

 

And if their projections are wrong, they can get rid of him for peanuts. They did restructure his contract, so that he would cost $3 million in dead money next year if they get rid of him. Big peanuts, but not crippling.

He does have a lot to live up to to make sure he can earn that money next year.

To me a horrible contract is a contract that is too much money AND makes it hard to get rid of the player due to guaranteed money.

 

I understand all your concerns... but Kiko did not play bad when healthy. He was all over as before except he got injured again very quickly... it wasn't his knee either.

 

Well, if LBfinest is against it, it must be a good trade for Miami.....

I do think people are over reacting, like Finster said we will have to see how it plays out. I wonder how many will be willing to come eat crow if this turns out to be a good trade for Miami.