In watching this weeks playoff games, it does appear that things are changing a bit. Seems like just throwing the ball is not gonna get it done, and that team do have to be able to run the ball.
D's are adapting and shutting down VG WR's. Aside from the Pats, which will be proven, ya still gotta be able to run the ball.
Thoughts?
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cant be one dimentional in the playoffs......... ask the chiefs
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Another common denominator for successful teams in the playoffs? O-Line.
We could clone Walter Payton, he's still not getting it done behind our line. -
Or the Dolphins of the 90s/early 00s
About Ingram though...you don't really need to draft a RB in the 1st round for him to be great. Jones-Drew was a 2nd round pick, Peyton Hillis and Ahmad Bradshaw were 7th round picks. It's easier to find a RB in later rounds than a QB. You do need good coaching and O-Line though. Arian Foster and Blount were undrafted. And these 5 RBs are probably in the Top 10 this past year, none came out of the 1st round.Trowa and MonstBlitz like this. -
*cough* looks at sig *cough*
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I am not sold on Ingram, I would only take a 1st round back if he were a sure thing. NE is winning with two FA backs. NYJ are using a 3rd rounder and a dinosaur. Seahawks are using Lynch, who was kicked out of Miami. Bears use Forte (3rd rounder). Pack don't have one. I'd take a back later or sign a FA. Use the pick for a D Lineman or an O Lineman.
mbmonk likes this. -
Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member
I think it's way too early to be looking at draft potential...first, the CBA needs to be resolved. Second, we have to hire an OC and whoever else they see fit to let go (QB coach, OL coaches, etc). Then we need to see what is available in FA since we could be losing Soliai, Brown, Williams, Polite, Fields, and Denney as starters/key contributors to FA. I'm sure the coaching side of things will work itself out, however, who will it be, will it require a change in basic personnel (like if the new OC is a WCO guy, etc). There are just a lot of questions right now and the draft is definitely on the back burner...besides, these kids always move up and down the boards in the month leading to the draft...IF there is going to be a draft...
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Lynch was traded from Buffalo, not Miami, and is a former 1st rounder (pretty high at that). The dinosaur went #5 overall and still has more to his game than most UDFAs. Forte was a mid-2nd rounder, not a 3rd rounder. Greene was the 1st pick of the 3rd round (and Jets gave up a 3rd, 4th, and 7th for him).
You also left off the Ravens who have Rice (a 2nd rounder), and McGahee (former 1st rounder), and Falcons have Turner (5th rounder, but big FA signing too).
I'm not advocating Ingram at #15, just pointing out some misdirections (IMO) in your post.Southbeach and Ohio Fanatic like this. -
This has nothing to do with your post but do you seriously think DJ Williams will fall to the 3rd round?
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Not to our pick probably, if at all (just wishful thinking). I guess it will depend on the postseason stuff. If he comes to the combine smaller than expected it could hurt him.
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While you make a good point about defense doing better in the playoffs this year, let me say this: If the Jets somehow manage to upset the Patriots this week that would mean neither Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, or Tom Brady would be making a superbowl appearance. The league would not like that one bit. I would expect the league would once again crack down heavily on pass interference and invent some new rules to handicap defenses some more. And did you see the Colts WRs screaming for flags every other play? I wonder if Billy Polian isn't already crying like a girl to the league. As much as I hate it, the NFL wants big name QBs and tons of offense in the superbowl because Joe Blow fan doesn't appreciate defensive struggles and field goal trading in the superbowl. It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
As far as Ingram. Do you think he's as good as Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson? Honest question, because I honestly don't know. But even if he is, you can see that without stable QB play, even the league's best runners cannot carry a team to the playoffs.
And regarding Marshawn Lynch's run. Although it was a truly great run that will go down in the history books, that run didn't win the game for the Seahawks. It only sealed the deal. Matt Hasselbeck's 4 TD passes won the game, IMO.jetssuck likes this. -
I think Williams is going to slide down on draft day hopefully to our #3 pick or so, maybe #4.
Royster from PSU only being invited to the Shrine Bowl means he also is a later round guy whom I'd like to have.
For me, fix the Oline, find playmakers. -
Ingram was not very impressive against Michigan St. and I'm afraid if they could shut him down, then the big boys in the NFL can too with ease. Just not sold at 15 on him.
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Competitiveness 1A tough, determined, no-nonsense runner. Possesses good awareness of the first-down marker and goal line and will give extra effort to get there. A consistent finisher who is always falling forward at the end of runs. Does a nice job of working towards open areas to give the QB a target on scrambles. Finishes runs along the sideline and appears to get stronger as game progresses.
Vision/Patience 1 Excels in this area. Shows great patience when approaching the line of scrimmage and does an excellent job of setting up and utilizing blocks. Possesses the peripheral vision and natural feel for developing cut back lanes. Above-average second-level runner and does a nice job of cutting off of blocks. Also shows a natural feel for when to put foot in the ground and get vertical against over-pursuing defense
Agility/Acceleration 2 Possesses the burst to consistently turn the corner and get on the perimeter. Displays quick feet and above-average lateral agility to probe for creases. Shows a quick short-area burst and does a nice job of getting upfield when finding the hole. Flashes ability to make defenders miss in the hole and accelerates through cuts. Has the extra gear to rip off big gainers when a vertical crease develops. Shifty and has ability to consistently make defenders miss in the open field.
Power/Balance 2 Runs with great balance and a low center of gravity. Maintains low pad level throughout runs and consistently bounces off initial contact. Lacks elite power in short-yardage situations but flashes ability to push a pile.
Passing Game 2 Effective receiver out of the backfield. Does a good job of getting to check downs quickly. Also shows ability to run away from man coverage on underneath routes. Possesses above-average ball skills and flashes ability to open up and make catch outside of frame. Dangerous when catching screens out of backfield with room to maneuver. Shows proper awareness and gives great effort in pass pro. Flashes ability to sink hips and generate leverage to neutralize an LBs momentum from the second level. Needs work with technique and timing when attempting cut blocks.
1 = Exceptional2 = Above average3 = Average4 = Below average5 = Marginal
Here's a run down on Ingram from Scouts Inc. that I just read. Their analysis is better that what I could give. -
The draft is the only thing we know that will happen on schedule. Almost everyone believes that there will be a new CBA but, that it will come a mont or 2 after the draft. Is so, there is no FA, player trades for picks or other players until then.
This means that the only thing we can focus on, aside from coaches, is the draft. I don't like it any better than you but, it is the hand we, as fans, are dealt. -
Well at #15 Ingram is a good option, at least a flashy one, but a Rb like Ryan Williams is going to slide back a bit, a bargain bin back like Evan Royster is a solid late rd option.
Now what would intrique me is if a Von Miller is there, would you pull the trigger?
The way I see the draft unfolding is:
1 DT
2 Cb's
2 Qb's
1 De
2 Wr's
Go in the Top 10:
DE: Bowers
DT Fairley
Wr Blackmon and Green
Qb Gabbert and Mallet
Cb Akamura and Robinson
Which basically puts gives us the #7 pick, or at least that his how I see it, with running backs falling on draft day, does it make sense to take Ingram?
Now what happens if Carimi is there? We could draft him, put Carey at RG, take a LG at #3 or in FA and resign Richie Incognito to play Center.
Oline=Done, then find 2 running backs. -
honestly i would be fine with any number of players. if we're talking first round RB he's my guy, first round QB that might slip to us Ryan Mallett, WR Green, OG Cannon. just draft someone who can start and is an upgrade on offense
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I feel like some want to take a quarterback just to take one.
Personally if we can patch up the offense line in free agency (sign Mankins; I think Berger and Incognito are viable starters with someone like Mankins around), I would love to go Ingram. I just doubt a quarterback worth taking will be there at #15. -
I do not believe that Ingram is in the Johnson/Peterson class at RB. I do believe that he is someone who will consistently give our team over 1,00o yds, over a 4 yd avg, make some plays, and be a VG receiving option out of the backfield. Kinda like what we all expected Ronnie to do.
I agree with everyone that we still need at lest good- VG QB play, and that the "Big Uglies" need to block. Ingram is a piece in the puzzle. IMO, he is a very important one who will make more of a difference than any other pick.
IF we can trade down, maybe 5-6 spots, and still get him that would be perfect for me. I do not see better options in FA. -
I believe that those types of RBs can be found all throughout the draft and that our 1st round pick could be better spent on a QB or a speedy WR. Given the way RBs are used in today's NFL, I just don't see too many RBs as having 1st round value.
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Padre, there is gonna be a VG guy on the OL to take at #15 or, even if we trade down, and I could understand picking one. Carimi, as you mention, Castonzo, Pauncy, or Smith from USC are all VG options. A lot depends on what we think of Jerry, Carey, and Garner coming back. There are some good FA on the OL
At RB, I don't see those options. -
There were 14 players in the NFL who did this last season, with 7 in the playoffs. Perhaps it is not quite as easy as you think.Phinperor likes this.
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Two injury questions and a rookie who showed absolutely nothing SB, solve the Oline and we solve a slew of problems on the offense.
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Are you referring to rush for over 1000 yards? I think there were 17 total according to NFL.com. And I could be wrong, but I think only 5 of those players were drafted in the first round.
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I included above a 4 yard avg but, not receiving. Where they were drafted means noting to this team in dire need of a RB. Other teams have the luxury of finding a late round "lucky pick." We do not.
I do understand your thinking, do not agree with it for this team, and this year. IF I had the remotest of hope that R&R would be close to what we all imagined, I have no interest in a RB in the first round. Not the case.Phinperor and Ricky'sBong like this. -
I would argue that if you don't fix the line, it won't matter at all what round you take a RB in. They'll look just like Ronnie and Ricky running into a pile of bodies for a 2.5 yard gain every other play. It's not so much a matter of getting lucky with RBs. If a team has a good offensive line, all you need to do is draft a decent RB, and the draft is littered with them, and they can run for 1,000 yards. I do think Ronnie played poorly, offensive line issues aside.
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No argument there Padre. I'm just trying to look at OL options vs RB options. I can see them on the OL, not at RB.
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The OL was a revolving door last year, with "Old Man Ricky Running Wild," at least to a degree. :)
Ronnie was poor, Ricky will be gone, and that leaves us with a VG ST's player in Hilliard. Not a pretty sight.
Forgetting everything I posted, who is your choice for RB this season> -
We are in a tough spot SB, we really need to trade back and pick up a #2 or early #3, but we also need Playmakers on offense, so as we acquire what we need, we move away from what we need, trade back to #29 and miss Blackmon to draft a Guard and a running back and there may be riots.
But we need that #2 pick back, unless Irish can kick over a rock, which is why, yet again, I have a longshot as my sigpic..CFLer Manny Arceneuex. -
I'm thinking that we have play makers with Marshall, Bess, Fasano, and Hartline. I'm thinking that having one at RB will make play action believable, and help the team.
I'm also thinking that a second TE will not hurt. Ya know that Fasano was the ONLY TE to catch a pass before Shuler a couple of games ago, and they were his first in the NFL.
With TE's doing sooo much damage, that is a most definite need. Being a UM Fanatic, I really wanted our shot blocker in hoops to be on this team. -
Honestly, I don't follow college football enough to venture a guess as to who we should draft at RB. But I trust Jeff Ireland enough to be able to land a guy in the mid to late rounds. Bottom line is history has proven many times over that it's much easier to find a RB that can be successful in the later rounds than it is to find a QB in the later rounds. If Jeff Ireland feels that there is a QB that has the potential to be a franchise QB at #15, he has to pull the trigger.Southbeach likes this.
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Agreed, Ireland forgot more than I know, which is what some fans forget. I'll be happy with our pick. Just added my $.02, as did you, and all. The bottom line is that we all, regardless of who we want, want nothing but the BEST for our team.
That is really all that matters.MonstBlitz likes this. -
RB should be defined by your O-Line. Take a lesson from the (insert name here) RB of the Shannhan era Broncos.
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It's a combined effort along with a QB who does not allow D's to stack the box. Anyone recall when Webb and Sims were Pro Bowlers with "Dan The Man" rewriting the record books? We still could not find a RB to run worth a damn. Then again, even if we had Jim Brown in his prime, not sure that Dan would have given up the ball all that much. JK/LOL.
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fixing the offense line & acquiring a new QB are higher priorities, can always draft a later round RB