For those who are interested in having an objective discussion, this is an intriguing article.
Regardless of it being a choice or not, you're a terrible human being if you choose to make life harder for these people because you don't like what or who they do.
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What are you suggesting? That people should be nicer to the anti-homosexuality crowd?
Pointing out just how objectionable certain elements of society have been in pretty important in affecting social change in these kinds of situations. Making sure that the anti-homosexuality crowd knows how much an increasing percentage of society thinks that they are horrifying *******s is pretty effective(and just). Out and out racists don't like being called racist for the most part.
unifiedtheory and Bumrush like this.
Being predisposed to death if you don't consume water is not a choice. Drinking water is a choice.
I put it that way to both agree with you and to suggest that it is unnatural to expect large groups of people to refrain from expressing their inborn sexual identity.
I think it's fair to say it's a failing of our understanding and our language to say it's either a choice or an inborn trait. I think it's both and it's neither. It's difficult to express what it is beyond that.
unifiedtheory and Celtkin like this.
And the objectivity immediately went right out the window, completely ignoring the science all together int he article...just as I knew it would.
:pity:
Does anyone realistically expect gay people to choose to live a life of total celibacy in order to conform? Because that's what it amounts to if they're not attracted to the opposite sex.
That's not really science IMO.
There is no objectivity when it comes to human rights.
Gays should not be discriminated against or judged for any reason. Whether they choose to be gay or are born gay, it is none of our business to tell him how to act, or why they act. We should embrace diversity as a society. Isn't that what America is about?
I've also had the opportunity to be around a large gay population since I grew up in Miami Beach. Most of the openly gay people I met NEVER dated the opposite sex and recall being gay from early childhood. I think many of the people that harbor illwill towards homesexuals are either homosexual themselves and can't cope with their feelings, or have never been exposed to openly gay people.
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It's why I am so for Polygamy, it's the next logical step.
I do believe you are born gay, but I also believe some is just lifestyle choice. I wouldn't think any women or man that has had sexual relations with someone of the same sex automatically gay. Obviously in 2012 this is accepted only with women.
I once read a great piece on the recidivism rates on a study of lesbians relationships.
The author stated that because smokers can quit smoking by not smoking anymore, homosexuals can learn to stop being gay, if they stop engaging in homosexual acts. I think that is rubbish. And I think it being a choice is rubbish. You don't just wake up one morning and say "I want to put a **** in my mouth". It doesn't happen like that.
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SICK likes this.
if we are in fact looking at this scientifically, then it being a choice would mean it is some sort of chemical reaction that takes place in the body. In other words it is always physiological.
Modifying behavior if it is genetic is not as simple as turning on or off a gene as multiple genes can be responsible for the behavior.
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty: noun
sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.
People need to understand that sexual desire for one's own sex makes you a homosexual, regardless if you act on it or not. Anyone can choose to not have sex of any kind. If I was celibate, I'd still be straight, just a celibate homosexual is still homosexual.
Sexual desire for a male or female is not a choice. I never chose to be straight, I just am. If you argue that sexual desire is a choice, then you must also explain at what point you chose to not be gay...because if it is a choice at some point you were attracted to both males and females then chose to be straight.
After my "shotgun blast" it seems some of you are making intelligent arguments however, the overall gist of the article seems to be overlooked in the process of making your arguments. The question posed was is homosexuality a choice?
I highlighted certain aspects of the article which supports and also defuses the thought process that homosexuals are born to be homosexuals by uillustrating genetics in other behaviors of human beings.
Science has identified a gene that predisposes to people to alcoholism. Does this mean that just because one possesses this gene they are doomed to be alcoholics?
Science has identified a gene that predisposes people to hostility. Does this mean that just because someone possesses this gene they are doom to be psychopaths?
Sciene has progressed to the point that many traits of people can be predicted based on genetics and it's often celebrated, or used as a crutch to condone behavior,rationalizing it's not someone's fault due to their genetic makeup but it also seems to me that when political issues arise, genetics is rationalized to suit one's own personal point of view, regardless of the science involved. This has already been seen thus far in this thread.
Is homosexuality a choice? I have my own opinions but then again, I'm not a geneticist who can say for certainty one way or the other. I am a believer howver that environment has more to do with a person, the choices they make and the lives they live more than anything
I beg to differ...
I know of a few females back in college before I enlisted in the army who were sadly and tragically molested and/or raped by either by their father or another male family member who CHOSE homosexuality as their lifestyle as the thought of a man touching them was repulsive to them.
That was a conscious CHOICE on their part.
That doesn't sound like a choice at all. That sounds like a need if I ever heard of one. A need to adapt and live the only way they can.
Needs and desires aren't choices. The actions we take are always choices. Every time we engage in any activity, its a choice. What feels right to us is not. A man having sex with a man, or a monkey eating a banana. Desire-choice.
On another note, not related to you personally TDK, This whole notion of homosexuality and choice is barbaric. God used to tell us that only white folk were his real children too. There is nothing like the eternal embarrassment of being on the wrong side of history.
So, basically, if you had been adopted at a young age by 2 homosexual men, you would be enjoying male sodomy today? You're such a bear!
SICK likes this.
It cant be a choice, cant be....
I got a buddy who came out of the closet a few months backl at the age of 41.....Dude is a radical conservative like Fin-D is to liberals, religious (not southern religious aka lunatic), etc etc....When he came out and told us about how bad he hates himself and his life because of it, it was pretty telling, and here is a dude who tried for years to be hetero, banged a bunch of chicks actually but in the end he was tired of hiding it....
I think there are instances where it is learned behavior/choice like chicks in prison for instance.....but no overall it isnt a choice...
I think some people have sexual rigidity inbuilt while others have sexual flexibility inbuilt. I think there are some people I could never imagine having sex with a man or with a woman, knowing them well. There are other people I know who could very easily pull off the bi thing. I think that's part of what creates some confusion here.
Pandarilla likes this.
shula_guy Well-Known Member
Do people choose to believe in God or is faith something that you can not control whether or not you have it. You can control the behavior of worsphipping a diety but you cant control what you believe. IMO being gay is similiar, you can control how you have sex but you can not control who you are attracted to.
Pandarilla likes this.
Dude, don't trouble yourself with this kind of conundrum. If you want to take it up the bunghole, it's because you're gay. Otherwise it would never occur to you.
I didnt choose to be gay. The implication is insulting.
But hey, if it's a choice it lets people **** on our rights conscience free.
unifiedtheory, SICK, Sleepy and 3 others like this.
F*** science on this topic.... F*** it in the *ss.
It doesn't take a Harvard grad using millions of grant dollars mapping genes and so forth to know we're born attracted to whomever the hell we're attracted to, be it man or woman.
I'm gonna take a blind dart throw here that these studies & "posed life questions" are conducted by straight people who have never met a real-life homosexual. LOL.
Pandarilla likes this.
Good points to build on. Another point of confusion would be whether or not one believes in reincarnation. If so, while the body and mind may have strong tendencies towards homosexuality, it's likely the residue from past life experience has firmly entrenched (I know, lol) you in a body that favors sense experience.
Whatever happened to just being really bored?
The more intriguing question is whether or not the military is in possession of the "Gay" bomb. Bisphenol-A is already effeminizing the West, but rumors of the gay bomb is something else entirely.
Ahhh sensuality, the yellow brick road that leads to Homosexual Oz.
BTW- if I'm ever born female, best believe I'd be lesbian. Not a butch one, just a friendly playful thing between us girls. I don't even know where lesbians get off being counted as gay. It only distorts your metaphysical essence when you take it up the A.
Me, personally, if I could just please have my orgasm without all this fuss, it would suit me just fine... Without the use of electricity or clamps either, you jarheads.
Acting out homosexuality in public is the only component of it that is really a choice, as a public display of affection between a man and a woman is a choice. To what extent and at what point we can ask each to get a room is the only issue left for debate after we've considered both the science and common sense.
Seriously, who would choose to be gay? The societal downside at present is too great. But if you are gay, to what extent should society be able to demand that you either stay celibate or keep it in the closet?
It's in the grey. There are those that are more attracted to more men, others less. Some become gay by their circumstances (all those ancient history Greek/young boys things), others are naturally attracted at a young age.
Hey guys I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today and I like dudes!
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shula_guy Well-Known Member
Thats cool.... Send me your women, I practice crop rotation and they're due
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