Just throw Tuaman in the Trenches

"canesz06 wrote:

How is he not ready? He's been playing football all of his life. Either his hip is still injured or he's not very good. There are no other reasons he shouldn't be playing. He can't beat out a journeyman QB who really isn't that good?

Every one of these 1st round quarterbacks too have/had played football all of their lives. By my count, 17 of them are either no longer a starter or no longer in the league.

And that's just the last decade. If we were to look even further back at first round draft picked quarterbacks and where they ended up, that count would be much higher.

"Patster1969 wrote:

Has Fitz been the issue the last 2 weeks - didn't realise he has been playing DL or corner

Didn't you know that EVERYTHING is the quarterback's fault? :tongue2:

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Every one of these 1st round quarterbacks too have/had played football all of their lives. By my count, 17 of them are either no longer a starter or no longer in the league.

Bleacher ReportRead article ↗

And that's just the last decade. If we were to look even further back at first round draft picked quarterbacks and where they ended up, that count would be much higher.

What does that prove? A good QB is gonna be a good QB. A bad one will be out of the league quickly. If tua is as good as most of the posters on here think he is, then he should be playing. Marino could have sat for a year or started game 1. It wouldnt have made a difference because he had "It". If tua has "It" it won't matter when he plays

Success of QBs in the NFL depends heavily on the situation they are trust into. IF a team has n need to rush a player out to play QB then a team should not do so. While the o-line has looked much better then last year, it is still an issue and Fitzy has the second least amount of time to throw. That is a solid group, but allowing the line time to gel and workout some of the communication kinks will only benefit Tua when he does step on the field.

A few other points...

Tua is two years younger then both Herbert and Burrow...

Burrow has done a solid job, but throwing 61 times for just over 300 yards is very poor efficiency and doesn't lend itself to winning football. I like Burrow and he is an impressive layer, but at some point, playing in that situation eventually breaks down a player.

Herbert came into a game and started when the other team had fully prepped for another QB, I don't want to take anything away from his performance, but Herbert, while under pressure, still looked liked Herbert.

Tua is no longer listed on the team's injury report so the wait now is for the situation to be right. Could be next week, could be a month from now...will it matter in two years? Does it make a huge difference that Tribusky and Watson both started games way before Mahomes? Both had some early success as well... What about Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield getting the starting nods before Jackson...did it give them a leg up on him?

in the end....

"vmarcilfan75 wrote:

Herbert with his first career start today

Did he start or come in after an injury? I turned it on in the 2nd quarter so I wasn't sure. He did look pretty comfortable out there though and he moved well in the pocket to make the right adjustments.

"KeyFin wrote:

Did he start or come in after an injury? I turned it on in the 2nd quarter so I wasn't sure. He did look pretty comfortable out there though and he moved well in the pocket to make the right adjustments.

He started the game.

I guess Tyrod had some cracked ribs and the doctor punchured his lung when giving him pain killers.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

He started the game.

I guess Tyrod had some cracked ribs and the doctor punchured his lung when giving him pain killers.

Hire him to work on Fitzpatrick.

"canesz06 wrote:

What does that prove? A good QB is gonna be a good QB. A bad one will be out of the league quickly. If tua is as good as most of the posters on here think he is, then he should be playing. Marino could have sat for a year or started game 1. It wouldnt have made a difference because he had "It". If tua has "It" it won't matter when he plays

The Marino comparison is rubbish. He took over a team that had just went to the Super Bowl the year prior.

Those quarterbacks that washed out were drafted by teams that absolutely sucked and instead of settling the young rookie up for success, they threw them right to the wolves and ruined their careers

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

The Marino comparison is rubbish. He took over a team that had just went to the Super Bowl the year prior.

Those quarterbacks that washed out were drafted by teams that absolutely sucked and instead of settling the young rookie up for success, they threw them right to the wolves and ruined their careers

You missed my point about Marino. He was gonna be good no matter what. What about Peyton Manning? The Colts sucked when they drafted him. If I remember correctly, he played right away. Being on a trash team didn't hurt him. That's because he also had "It". Those quarterbacks you mentioned would have sucked no matter what. Do you think John Beck would have been good if he was on a good team? Nope, he would suck no matter what. If you're good, you're good. If you ain't, you ain't. No matter which team or if you sit or play right away.

"canesz06 wrote:

You missed my point about Marino. He was gonna be good no matter what. What about Peyton Manning? The Colts sucked when they drafted him. If I remember correctly, he played right away. Being on a trash team didn't hurt him. That's because he also had "It". Those quarterbacks you mentioned would have sucked no matter what. Do you think John Beck would have been good if he was on a good team? Nope, he would suck no matter what. If you're good, you're good. If you ain't, you ain't. No matter which team or if you sit or play right away.

Dude, I dislike Tua but you're kind of making all of us who dislike his game for legitimate reasons look bad. It's why people dont take us seriously.

Please chill a little. His starting or not starting two games in isnt the reason to have doubts. Its irrelevant.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

Dude, I dislike Tua but you're kind of making all of us who dislike his game for legitimate reasons look bad. It's why people dont take us seriously.

Please chill a little. His starting or not starting two games in isnt the reason to have doubts. Its irrelevant.

I don't necessarily have doubts. I mean I wanted Hebert but it is what it is. I just wonder why other rookies are playing but he cant/isn't. Either he looks bad in practice or the coaches are incompetent

As far as I can tell this whole discussion is mostly pointless. Putting a QB in from the start doesn't necessarily hurt their development nor does holding them out. Everything is situational and dependent on the individual. I would imagine that all QB's benefit from seeing and learning the game, and Tua certainly seems to be using the time to connect, to learn, to do all due diligence. I have no doubt whatsoever that when the call comes he'll be ready and eager. Does this hurt him? I don't think so. He's been in this situation before. He sat on the bench in college, got the call and stepped up to win the game.

Although it's possible that the staff are seeing that Tua isn't as good as expected or isn't up to scratch yet we've there is simply no indication that's the case. If it is the case then there's no good putting him in. If it's not, then clearly the staff don't think it's an indictment against the QB to not put him in yet.

My guess is that Flores is taking a wide and long view. He's not going to allow himself to feel pressured to do anything he doesn't need or want to do. He's building a team from scratch, he's evaluating everything - including other coaches and coordinators. It's possible that the staff feel that giving more time for Tua to develop or heal is necessary or beneficial, that holding him out is purely for Tua's benefit. On the other hand, Tua might be incidental to Flores' plan. It could be that with all the changes, and with Gailey coming in (because the loss of the previous OC wasn't Flores' plan), an experienced QB gives Flores a more stable platform for evaluating everything else.

The last option is that the staff genuinely feel that Fitz gives them the best chance to win overall.

Whatever the case, there's no way we can know. There are legitimate reasons for any scenario.

"canesz06 wrote:

Well maybe we shouldn't have taken a QB with the # 5 pick, that was coming off of a major hip injury if he's too fragile to play. He can't even beat out a washed up journeyman QB. Burrow and Herbert didnt have pre seasons either and yet somehow they're able to play.

Ahh.. ok, so there it is. You're just not happy with the pick of Tua? I think everyone knew wherever Tua ended up he likely wouldn't be ready to start week 1 for health reasons likely. Everyone knew that; I'm not sure why you're struggling with this now. He's going to play this year; it's just a matter of when. Why would you put your prized possession QB coming off an injury with no camp or preseason time behind a new offensive line that hasnt been great and needs time to gel? It's just common sense. This team isn't built to compete or win this year; so what's the rush? If Tua had played week 1 and 2, we're likely still 0-2 based on how our defense has performed.

Take this for what you will:

"Galant wrote:

Take this for what you will:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1308037851360223235

???

"brandon27 wrote:

Ahh.. ok, so there it is. You're just not happy with the pick of Tua? I think everyone knew wherever Tua ended up he likely wouldn't be ready to start week 1 for health reasons likely. Everyone knew that; I'm not sure why you're struggling with this now. He's going to play this year; it's just a matter of when. Why would you put your prized possession QB coming off an injury with no camp or preseason time behind a new offensive line that hasnt been great and needs time to gel? It's just common sense. This team isn't built to compete or win this year; so what's the rush? If Tua had played week 1 and 2, we're likely still 0-2 based on how our defense has performed.

No, I didn't like the pick. But he was picked and now I want to see what we have. Is joe burrow less of a prized possession than tua? Cincys O-line is arguably worse than ours, yet he's starting. Why is that? So do we wait until we have a pro bowl caliber O-line before he gets to play? We very well may end up with the 1st pick next year. I'd like to see if tua is totally horrible and if so, get Trevor Lawrence. Let me guess, you think that's a stupid idea. Can you honestly tell me that if we have the number one pick you wouldnt want Lawrence?

"canesz06 wrote:

No, I didn't like the pick. But he was picked and now I want to see what we have. Is joe burrow less of a prized possession than tua? Cincys O-line is arguably worse than ours, yet he's starting. Why is that? So do we wait until we have a pro bowl caliber O-line before he gets to play? We very well may end up with the 1st pick next year. I'd like to see if tua is totally horrible and if so, get Trevor Lawrence. Let me guess, you think that's a stupid idea. Can you honestly tell me that if we have the number one pick you wouldnt want Lawrence?

That's a valid concern, but while the decision not to play Tua might be frustrating it doesn't necessarily mean there is an issue with Tua - just that Flores' plan/decision doesn't help with what your plan would be.

Tyrod Taylor to return as starting QB following decent game by Herbert.

(Sort of. He would have started if the team doc hadn't punctured his lung with an injection!)

"canesz06 wrote:

I don't necessarily have doubts. I mean I wanted Hebert but it is what it is. I just wonder why other rookies are playing but he cant/isn't. Either he looks bad in practice or the coaches are incompetent

Yeah man but look at it this way.

I agree Marino would have been Marino whenever he was in. The fact that he didnt play by week 2 didnt prevent him from being Marino either.

If you want to know why hes sitting, its because:

A) Its not impossible to win 7-8 games with Fitz which puts you in the playoff hunt. Going into the year.

B) The team is young. You dont want a rookie trying to lead rookies. It's a recipe for looking like shit on the field.

Like, in 5 years are you going to care if he didnt start until week 10 his rookie year if hes a top 5 QB?

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

Yeah man but look at it this way.

I agree Marino would have been Marino whenever he was in. The fact that he didnt play by week 2 didnt prevent him from being Marino either.

If you want to know why hes sitting, its because:

A) Its not impossible to win 7-8 games with Fitz which puts you in the playoff hunt. Going into the year.

B) The team is young. You dont want a rookie trying to lead rookies. It's a recipe for looking like **** on the field.

Like, in 5 years are you going to care if he didnt start until week 10 his rookie year if hes a top 5 QB?

Didn’t the fans of Kansas City riot in the streets, burning Andy Reid in effigy and set fire to Arrowhead Stadium when Mahomes rode the bench in 2017?

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Didn’t the fans of Kansas City riot in the streets, burning Andy Reid in effigy and set fire to Arrowhead Stadium when Mahomes rode the bench in 2017?

And they were right. He should have been starting from game one. How do you know what you have in a player unless you put him in a game?

Fans rioting in the streets? Who better to decide the direction of a franchise or a nation?

"canesz06 wrote:

And they were right. He should have been starting from game one. How do you know what you have in a player unless you put him in a game?

Jesus, God, Mary and Joseph...for REAL? The 2016 Kansas City Chiefs were 12-4 with Alex Smith as their quarterback. Why in God's name would replace Alex Smith with Patrick Mahomes in 2017? They started the 2017 season 5-0 for crying outloud. It's not like the Chiefs were 0-5 in 2017 and Reid stuck with Smith instead of putting in his new rookie. The Chiefs finished the season 10-6 and made the playoffs. Did they lose that Wildcard game? Yea, they did and Andy Reid made the call that it was time to transition to Mahomes. Andy Reid set Mahomes up for success and the rest is history.

Tua Tagovailoa in Miami is nowhere in the same boat as Mahomes was in Kansas City. In fact, Miami and Kansas City are/were in two different bodies of water when it comes to their drafted quarterbacks. Mahomes was drafted to a seaworthy cruise ship where Tagovailoa was drafted to a dingy with multiple rips and tears that you wouldn't take to a duck pond

"Hooligan wrote:

Fans rioting in the streets? Who better to decide the direction of a franchise or a nation?

I'm not on board with the rioting but it looks like the fans were right. Maybe if mahomes started that year, they wouldnt have gotten eliminated in the wild card round. Lots of coaches arent as smart as they think they are. Just like how every dolphin fan knew picking jamar Fletcher instead of drew brees was moronic. Sometimes the fans know better

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Jesus, God, Mary and Joseph...for REAL? The 2016 Kansas City Chiefs were 12-4 with Alex Smith as their quarterback. Why in God's name would replace Alex Smith with Patrick Mahomes in 2017? They started the 2017 season 5-0 for crying outloud. It's not like the Chiefs were 0-5 in 2017 and Reid stuck with Smith instead of putting in his new rookie. The Chiefs finished the season 10-6 and made the playoffs. Did they lose that Wildcard game? Yea, they did and Andy Reid made the call that it was time to transition to Mahomes. Andy Reid set Mahomes up for success and the rest is history.

Tua Tagovailoa in Miami is nowhere in the same boat as Mahomes was in Kansas City. In fact, Miami and Kansas City are/were in two different bodies of water when it comes to their drafted quarterbacks. Mahomes was drafted to a seaworthy cruise ship where Tagovailoa was drafted to a dingy with multiple rips and tears that you wouldn't take to a duck pond

So you're saying that mahomes shouldn't have started because he was on a good team and Tua shouldn't start cause he's on a bad team? How does that work exactly?