http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/12/24/2560916/miami-dolphins-matt-moore-is-solid.html
Goodness, I do not know which is more unsettling, the thought I kind of agree with that assessment, or the fact that someone inside Davie may feel Armando is a good outlet to have their views aired on players...both are somewhat disturbing.
That and there is more then a bit of someone playing at CYA to offer such a view:
Here's why, Tom Brady has been an all pro Elite caliber Qb for yrs now, and Belicheck has added highly drafted guys to the offense to ensure he remains at that level, think of this, when Brady Dropped back and tossed to Gronkowski, they had Hernandez as well, they lost their TAckles, and merely inserted #1 pick Mankins to play LT and kicked #1 pick Solder to RT
When Big Jake went down, we had...John Jerry, whom we took instead of Hernandez and Co, when our #1 Te went down, we had to rely on a practice squad guy to block, and a 6th rd pick to catch the ball.
Someone is doing a bit better job of adding offensive talent to the roster, and it ain't the guy in Davie.
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which is why if we add more retreads, like Jeff Fisher or Brian Billick we will be mediocre for another 10 years. We need fresh blood.
GreysonWinfield likes this. -
Mando needs to do his research. We beat the Packers the last time we played them (just last year). I agree we need to look for QB's that could be elite, but at the same time I think they are selling Matt Moore short. Yes, he has a couple things he needs to work on, but he still hasn't reached his full potential.
gunn34, Moves and pacadermng67 like this. -
No one works the draft like Belicheck does in the NFL today. Is willing to trade this years 1st rounder in order to get the other teams 2nd rounder and following year's 1st rounder...SMART! He is a Master at it. He understands how to draft with the team's long-term success in mind. Every year seems to have 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd round picks.
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As for retread head coaches, you could say Shula was a retread, since he had 7 yrs as the Colts head coach before coming to Miami. He couldn't win the big one in Baltimore either. Lost the 1964 NFL Championship to the Browns and lost Super Bowl III to the Jets. After he left Baltimore the Colts returned to and won a Super Bowl before Shula did with the Dolphins.
Jimmy Johnson was a retread, and while he didn't win any championships in Miami, he did make the playoffs 3 of 4 seasons and would have to be considered our 2nd most successful head coach in team history. -
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Yessir, not to mention they also brought the franchise it's highest level of success, even if you xclude Shula, JJ/Wanny won lots of games.
I suspect there may be some decisions made this offseason for all of the wrong reasons Mr C. -
No. Matt Moore doesn't got anything. He has something. I'm not at all surprised the Herald's editors let this one slip.
I wish Mando would report on scouting efforts or plan changes in the wake of Matt Barkley's return to USC. Reports were that Jeff Ireland rated Barkley ahead of Andrew Luck; now Barkley isn't available to be drafted and Luck is almost certainly out of the question unless the Colts win and the Rams lose in week 17.
If we estimate the Dolphins picking in the 8-11 range, that means at least two QBs will be off the board by the time we're up: Luck and RG3. What's the plan in that event? Weeden? I'd love him but the fanbase would riot, unjustifiably, IMO. Tannehill and Jones aren't worth a selection that high. This seems a prime situation for Ireland to pull a classic Parcellsian move; trade down, acquire extra picks, and grab the best player available (in this instance, best QB available). Unless the Rams get the #1 overall pick, that is. If that happens, then Ross will and should order a trade up at any cost.
How ironic that, at the end of the season, we are now back to how we almost began it: Suck For Luck is back on, fellas. Only we need the Jags and Rams to do the sucking.
The new year had damn well better be happy.Boik14 likes this. -
No he didn't. Most their highly drafted wide receivers get cut and Hernandez was a 4th round pick.Boik14 likes this.
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Doesn't surprise me. The quality of journalism has severely declined and The Herald seems to be written on a fifth grade reading level.Desides likes this.
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Journalism and proofreading are two separate things performed by different people. But yes, article quality is awful these days. We're a long way from the 1941-1963 era.
And most newspapers are actually written at a middle school level, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.dolfan32323 likes this. -
It's not really up to him, though. Ross has ordained that a franchise QB be obtained somehow, and he wants Luck just as much as everyone else.
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I agree. It's not up to him, and I expect a major push for Luck. But, what if he isn't available? What if we cannot trade up for him? You can't force a pick on a QB just for the sake of doing it. This is only speculation, but I don't think Ireland is high on Jones or Tannehill, and I don't see him spending a pick on Weeden.
All speculation at this point, though. Not sure what Ireland is thinking right now, lol. -
At that point, Ireland calls Jerry Jones and asks if his office is still available. :shifty:
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likes this.
I don't think a good coach like Fisher and retread belong in the same sentence 2 socks..The guy was a coach for the same team for a very long time, and did not jump right back into coaching after he resigned..That makes him pretty fresh for me.
ssmiami likes this.
I'm waiting for us to bring Mangini or McDaniels in at head coach DJ. :shifty:
One thing I will say for Moore is it is that our WRs are on this team rarely show the ability to turn a short pass into a bigger gain. Without it, the margin for error still remains small....as it has for years. We would always blame the QB, but I think this is less on Moore. I would say that his play has been helping the receivers more than the other way around.
while a great receiving corps does not make an elite QB, every elite QB has a strong group to throw to - guys that can make something out of nothing.
Take the Victor Cruz play today against the Jests. Eli Manning was 9 for 27 on the afternoon with that pass to Cruz being his only TD. Imagine if we had a play like that today. It cold have won the game. All the QB has to do is get the ball there and the WR does the rest.
Exactly Maynard, and Cruz was a preseason longshot who made the NYG due to injuries after tearing it up in 2010's preseason.
It is not that such players are expensive from a drafting pov, or even a cost pov, it is there was little effort to add them in the first place, the one whom they did, Marlon Moore, was rarely thrown to, recall Marlon's short catch and long TD run vs the Raiders in 2010?
Recall any since then? By anyone? This is what I mean by we may have an offense that is designed to be explosive but we have a Wr corps that fits what Dan Henning wanted to do.
maynard likes this.
Perhaps you need to go back and check all the injuries the Packers had when the Dolphins played them last year. If you seriously believe that the Dolphins are on the same level as the Packers, you need to stop drinking whatever is causing your delusions. Last week the Chiefs beat the Packers. I guess that means the Chiefs are better than the Packers and Kyle Orton is the next great QB, right?
The fact is that all the win by the Chiefs last week and the Dolphins beating a injury riddled Packers team last year shows is that bad teams can on occasion beat the top teams in the NFL. The problem for bad teams like the Dolphins though is that these type victories are few and far between. In fact this season the only team the Dolphins have defeated which has a winning record right now is the very mediocre, Oakland Raiders.
Matt Moore is not the long term answer for the Dolphins at the QB position. He is nothing but a QB who can be effective against the other bottom teams in the NFL but not good enough to lead the Dolphins to victory against the better teams in the NFL. He is not an elite QB and he never will be. The Dolphins need an elite QB and until they get an elite QB, they will remain in the bottom rung of the NFL.
MAFishFan likes this.
Weak tea, when this team was banged up earlier this yr and went 0-7, was the same "oh, but they were injured"? line of thinking apply
Mando got it wrong, he also is not using Office 2010's built in grammar checker, or he is using a direct quotation.
And perhaps the Jets.
You more then likely do not recall when the last Front Office, thought the same thing about a good Qb?
2005 heading into 2006, Frerotte has led us to a 8-6 record filling in for Jay Fiedler, Saban deemed him a "backup Qb", and traded for Daunte Culpepper, Gus went on to lead the Vikings to the playoffs, C-Pepe was last seen in the NFL starting for a dreadful Lions team.
As long as we try to play the mistake free/big man's game style of football, we are not going anywhere, that opens the door for a good Qb to win the gm in the 4th qtr by a last minute FG.
maynard likes this.
Maybe I am in the minority - but I think Moore can be better next year, than this year - not saying elite, and if we can find the next Rogers, great, but Moore to me has the potential to be more than serviceable.
padre31 likes this.
finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member
Moore's been really solid, he's shown that he's worth keeping around. That said, we'd be fools to ignore the position in the draft like we've done in years past when we had solid or serviceable guys like Fiedler, Henne, etc. We've paid the price thinking we can get a solid backup in FA and ignore the position in the draft. I think we should be taking a Qb in every draft, and taking one high, until we find that we have a franchise Qb.
I think Ross does get involved in the decision making process here, I think he forces Ireland's hand unless he gets one of the big name coaches. He needs a splash, that splash is either going to be a coach or a Qb. Maybe we pickup a more low key coaching prospect and Ross tells Ireland to go get Luck by any means necessary, I don't know, but I don't see us going into next season with an unknown/unproven coach and Moore starting, I could see us maybe going with a guy like Fisher and Moore (which I think means we won't be doing anything more than finishing 3rd in the division) but more than likely Ross is going to be looking to make a HUGE move and that isn't sticking with Moore.
I know Pod agrees with this, as do I, its hard because we see bess and marshall, and Hart do nice things catching the football, ''catching being the key word'', explosive play making ability is different..Marshall is fine, but I think we have to upgrade Hartline, its a tough decision but we've got to get that explosiveness into the lineup somewhere, and I think that position would be the ideal spot...There, and outside linebacker..
IMO the addition of Gates and Bush was a step towards addressing the need for play makers. We knew Gates was raw coming in. Sure there are some Desean Jacksons but most receivers take time to develop. IMO we should still add more play makers, but I don't see the need to spend big resources to do it. The third round and on is where you look for #2 WRs and TEs.
Depends, keep in mind Reggie Bush had a career yr, can he do it again?
This is the area that Sparano typically made his largest mistakes, he simply assumed the next season a player would produce at the same level, like Ricky W heading into 2010, without Bush, does MMoore do as well? Can he tighten up his game in terms of intermediate accuracy and ball protection?
What concerns me is Ireland is really stubborn when it comes to adding playmakers to the offense, as in he won't pay for them unless forced (ie Marshall) so his thinking may be "Hartline and Bess just need better Qb play and they will become Td scorers"...ie..."I acquired them, I'm not going to admit I was wrong by replacing them".
OLB is a big need if we stay with the 3-4. Taylor is our only other PR threat, and he is ancient by NFL standards. Misi is a solid run defender but looking at the steelers OLB situation it would take a ton of pressure off Wake and the secondary to add a real pass rusher that teams have to account for. Jason Babin is a FA next year. He could replace Taylor but I imagine the Eagles will franchise him.
Edit: Babin signed a 5 year deal in 2011 with the Eagles my bad .:no::sad:
Disgustipate likes this.
There will be plenty of good passrusher on the free agent mkt, Ahmad Brooks comes to mind, maybe Mario Williams as well.
If they want to go cheaper, CFLer Justin Hickman could get a look.
to my memory, Hartline made one play all game where he didn't fall down. Bess is nice in space, but really doesn't break tackles
I don't see that as the thinking at all. Gates was clearly an attempt to upgrade Hartline and Bess. And the Bush addition came right after he said that the focus was to add play makers. I also saw Clay as a similar focus. I wouldn't characterize anybody who brings in three guys to be play makers in his first season with full control as somebody who doesn't want to bring in play makers.
Neither of whom play very often or see very many targets, and to the larger point, why go 1 deep in the draft if that area was targeted for upgrading?
And Ireland will try to bring them in...as long as they don't cost very much, and that lack of determination to both identify the problem and to spend resources on it is but one of the reasons for 5 losses by 11 pts..combined.
I disagree. I think they've done a lot to try and add playmakers especially ones that offer YAC opportunities. We traded for Reggie Bush. We drafted Clyde Gates. Brandon Marshall was a YAC guy coming to Miami. And Charles Clay is a fast TE. So, the effort was certainly made for that.
I don't think we utilize our best YAC player enough, which is Reggie Bush. While I'm. I'm not complaining about a RB with 1,100 rushing yards and he's proven he can be a "traditional" RB, but it's been at the expense of losing some of those plays. I'd like to see him on those 1-on-1 match ups with LB's lined up in the slot and he's runs some slants or crossing routes. New Orleans is doing it well with Sproles and Buffalo is doing it with Spiller.
Also, I just don't think we run a lot of those plays where you get the YAC. We don't run a lot of screens. We don't run a lot of slants. We don't run a lot of clear out crossing routes. Dan Henning ran a lot more of those. Now we run more 9 routes and the same amount of hitches and comeback routes.
Marlon Moore was never a threat to do anything. He's not on any team for a reason. He couldn't get open. He couldn't catch when he was open. And him turning an out route into a big gain because a DB undercuts a route trying to get an INT and misses doesn't mean you can label Marlon Moore a YAC monster.
maynard likes this.
Rdhstlr, a few things:
-Marlon Moore is still on the team, he tore a quadraceps muscle
-To find those playmakers, you have to bring them in at every chance, for example they brought in Phil Livas, did not practice squad him.
-the higher the draft choice, the more opportunities they will get to show what they can do
You can ignore a Clyde Gates when he is a 4th rd pick, take him with a #2..he will get playing time in base offensive sets.
This is one of the issues, they can cut a Pat Turner after not playing him because they acquired him cheaply, push a high resource like a #1 or #2 in, and they have to play, this is something Irish has Never done, not in Dallas, not in Miami.
That's the smart way to approach it. Smaller, faster players tend to be available more readily and a large percentage of them will not be good enough. They are simply bad bets to use high resources to acquire. And if you use big resources on them then you have to hope that you get lucky trying to fill your other positions. And the guys that don't play are either not good enough or are victims of coaches who haven't figured out how to use them. That's one of the reasons I see Daboll as such an upgrade over Henning. I think he has shown a far greater tendency to learning how to use play makers.
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