Per Marino regarding the tipped passes:

 

added statement:

 

He asked Marino if he liked to slide around in the pocket? :lol:
Kids he was a bullfighter back there.
The thing Dan forgot to touch on is you have to move that QB in a football game where he is under duress.
That might be on Sherman.

 

Cut block has to be done immediately these days. You cut a guy now when he is going up in the air it will cost you 15,000 dollars on a personal foul penalty. Dan, times have changed Amigo LOL. I can see his point, problem is its not working on every pass play. Tannehill still needs to find his way thru the trees. Good article on the difference in Oline and the speed DEs now have compared to the 80s and 90s. Todays Defensive ends are like fighter jets. In the 70s 80s and 90s they were like well, defensive lineman, small, not to strong but just the same, football players.

Only place the speed has not changed is with the DBs. They were fast then and they are fast now. Comparing O and D lines today to those of the 70s thru 90s is like day and night. Dislike Mel Kiper on his recruiting bs but this is a very good article on the changes of Lineman in the NFL.


http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/6933214/tmq-mel-kiper-jr-size-increase-football-players

 

You know, there's one thing that really stood out from Tannehill and it was inability to re-engage with the field consistently. Whether it was on a play action when he turned his back to the defense on a fake handoff -- which I believe was called once or twice -- or a roll-out (also called once or twice), he did not re-engage with the field well after initially taking his eyes off of it. And what I mean by that is when he drops his eyes or turns his back on the defense, he was not quick to locate his targets or get a clear picture of what he was looking at (if that makes sense) and get rid of the ball. It's something worth monitoring.

There's no reason why you can't cut block on majority of 3 step. Problem is you have to do it right and if you don't, its, well, a problem. Case and point with Ryan Kerrigan week 1 of last season on a tip-pick-six of Eli Manning.

 

.... but a 3 step drop falls under the "immediate" category, so you should be cutting him just about as soon as you come out of your stance, no? If you wait till he's in the air then you're too late and have poorly anticipated him IMO.

I agree that defense is stealing all the great athletic linemen, which is why I'm happy we drafted an athletic tackle in the 2nd round and used a 1st on the athletic Pouncey.

 

Yes. You're correct on a strong point. Fire out, drop your hips, roll into him to cut him down like a tree.

 

Didn't JJ Watt do this to Dalton last year in the playoffs?
That film should have been an adjustment in itself before the game.
We were doing the right things in that football game till. Why stray away?

 

I assume we'll be spending more time on these drills??

 

I have no clue. I'm a fan like everyone else and guessing. But I would hope that they would because the team has the athletes at offensive tackle for it.

 

Watt & Calais Campbell are like the Manute Bole of the NFL.

 

I would love to know how you work on drills that solve a three minute meltdown.
Play calls have to be different and not put the kid in bad situations. Sherman is owning it. That makes me happy.

 

Its insane to ask an Oline to cut block on every 3 step drop pass play. Its never happened and never will happen. These DEs are no so athletic they would pick it up after the second time and leap over the cut block. We would then have people on the board saying ' Well, then the Olineman need to stick their hands up":lol:


Marino had a release like a gun. Tannehill, while not bad, is very very far from a Dan Marino release. Crap, if Marino got the ball as far as the back of his helmet on his release it was far. Tannehill by no shape of the imagination has any kind of release associated with what Marino had even when Marino was a rookie.

Look, the kid is not an aweful QB BUT if this is not corrected ? He will always be nothing more then a backup. No HC wants a guy that gets this many balls batted down. Sherman forgets. Tannehill DID get balls batted down in preseason also.

Like I said before, Sherman had since the Spring of 2011 at ATM all the way thru this pre season to correct this issue and its very clear, its not even close to be corrected.

Marino, Sims pick who you choose can say whatever they wish on how to correct it. We can cut block, punch them in the stomachs, hell, jump on them when they go up in the air but until Ryan Tannehill gets his chit together on this issue, its going to be fugly. If he does not get it together then yes, he will be a backup QB in his NFL career.

 

Drills as in---- spending more time to improve the passing lanes during 3 step drops if these are to continue being an important part of the offense.

 

With all due respect my friend, what do you think these guys are, airplanes ? Once you fire out you are in motion, there is no hip dropping once you are firing out. Its one straight forward motion and that motion is at first straight with a quick drop of your shoulders to the ground. Thats a cut block. You start " rolling " into people and you will be ejected from the game immediately or the second time you roll into someone.

 

You don't have to do it on every one. That's silly to suggest that's what I'm saying. You do it randomly to where you become unpredictable and the dlineman becomes more hesitant to jump on 3 step drops. Knowing that the threat of the cut block exists will be effective in its own right, but you have to first establish that threat by executing a few.

 

Fire out as in get off the line, then sink your hips and roll (which you can do and the exact words that taught to OL in that situation) into the rusher. I'm not saying to kickslide or vertical set a yard and a half here. Lets not be ridiculous. Get off the line and do your job. Don't take the word for more than it is.

 

Don't give me that airplane stuff. I've seen Jared Allen & Jason Pierre Paul cut block to get them out of passing lanes, and it doesn't get any tougher than that.... and no, you're not getting ejected for cutting anyone as long as he's not already engaged.

 

That was a tired defense I’ve gotta tell ya, they played their a—off. I know the pass coverage wasn’t great, the run defense… They had had guys flying around. Effort, the coach will be happy with what he saw from that."

That's a good sign..

 

That's on Turner to make that group work. Developing a QB is a different skill set everyone knows that. Sum of the parts can equal a whole. We know that too./
We know Ryan has to learn pocket stuff but I hope you rewatched the football game. Many chances. Not *****ing. You have to manage a kid.
We didn't do that. Veteran OC should know better and he knows it.

 

Jake Long still gets beat by speed rushers.

 

Why do you say so?

 

You cut block somebody when he is in the air you are getting ejected my friend. This place is like insano land. Cut blocks, shots to the solar plexis. Its amazing how 31 other NFL QBs offensive lines do nothing anyone has mentioned other then what Sherman mentioned, have the QB get his friggin act together and thats what its going to take. Personally, you are comparing apples and oranges on cutting DEs to take them down out of passing lanes as opposed to cutting DTs and DEs when they jump in the air. I can see everyone here is an expert. Please, get with the NFL and teach these techniques. And yes, I will give you that airplane stuff when you say to fire out, lower your hips and then roll into someone ????????????????????????????? Really ????????????????? You must be Robocop or some mechanical genius.

Watch, learn, Oakland Dline did not leave their feet the entire game against San Diego. Watch how they magically turn into NBA centers on Sunday, or attempt to.

 

He doesn't get his feet under him. Not quick in the hips against speed. Knee injury and a shoulder with issues.
No way should he get 80 mill or even 70 and he is up.
Hate to say it.

 

He's done pretty well in his career against speed rushers despite his hip tightness, which dates back to his Michigan days. A reason for his success against speed rushers in the NFL is because of his consistent technique. Is this comment based on Sunday's play?

 

Because he has been beaten every game on the edge. You really think Jake Long played like an All Pro this pre season or in the Houston game ? I don't. I would not pay him a nickel extra and if they do not do a contract and they want to keep him, tag him. You are only fooling yourself if you think we cannot replace Jake Long. Him making the pro bowl last year while he stunk it up and missed the end of the season was a joke, a complete farce.

Again, people seeing Long play like an all pro is just a figment of their imagination these days. Is he a good LT ? Yep but is he irreplacable ? nope, not at all. The days of Jake Long getting a fee pass because his name were Jake Long are over. The mans salary amounts to more then other teams pay their entire offensive line, thats ludicrous.

 

It really isn't. We've seen this for a while. Thanks for the response. I shouldn't be turning the thread.
Not my intention.

 

Its based on my part since the way he has played last season until now. Jake may have SAID he was in the greatest shape of his career but he sure does not look like it. I also wish him the best but I can no longer say Jake Long is the Jake Long of a few years ago. He is not getting paid anything until he proves it. These days you don't need a billion dollar LT, look around the league before you jump on me and say you do. You would be very surprised what some really really good teams are paying their LTs and yes, they are really good teams.

 

Alen,
with Tanny's athleticism and Bush's speed, could we run a pump-fake 3 step drop and then have Tanny either quick pitch to Bush [strongside] or even pull it down and run the option?

 

Why do you keep repeating this when nobody has mentioned cutting defenders in the air? We're not talking about a 5 or 7 step drops here; we're talking about a 3 step drop when the lineman, coming out of his stance, can either cut the defender before he has a chance to leave his feet or use a strong hand punch to help keep the defenders hands down.

And yes, verse athletic linemen who possess good length, other teams most certainly do cut them at times throughout the game.

 

OK, can you slow down? You appear to be emotionally charged, consequently exaggerating with your assessments and putting words into my mouth.

I didn't suggest he was an All-Pro nor anything near that. You can replace Jake Long, yes -- it is something I've suggested in the past. The Pro Bowl isn't much a factor to me, although I do recognize it is in contract negotiations. Speaking of which, he's a very quality offensive tackle and one that has not "been beaten every game on the edge". He has actually been quite good and even on his off day, unhealthy or not, is better than the majority of offensive tackles in the league. That's not a farce nor is it an figment of my imagination; It's actually evident on the tape which both you and I have access to.

I don't know your recent or past conversations with other people that gave Long a "free pass" because of his name, but I have never said that. I'd like to think I have been pretty reasonable in my assessments of his game, which I understand you don't quite agree with. He's played quite well and deserves an extended contract. Now that doesn't necessarily mean he deserves to be the league's highest paid offensive tackle nor receiving what an entire teams offensive line is paid.

With that said, he's considerably better than probably most of the offensive linemen on teams are paying a significantly less salary to. There's a reason for that, you know.

 

I'm at a loss as to why we didn't you his strengths in the gameplan..haven't heard a logical excuse yet, except for that it might be because that's how you develop a young qb, by constricting him to the pocket, for which I disagree with..

It's one if those head scratchers that I fu&$in hate from a profressional coach..how do we not have a moving pocket, especially with Tannehills propensity to throws into the opponents face masks, and the little fact that he is lethal on the move..

Did any stupid reporter even ask that question today or yesterday.

 

You can without the pump-fake. You can build that in. I think the pump fake is simply wasting time, honestly. I would also consider altering the quick pitch to a draw.

 

Long is one of the top LTs in the game even when he's banged up. When he's healthy he's top 3 overall when factoring in both phases of the game. There's a reason NFL players recognized Jake as the league's 2nd best tackle and 4th best lineman.

What I find ironic is how you mention the extreme talent shift toward the defense in recent years but you seem to not care about spending money on an elite tackle to counteract this talent shift. That's contradictory IMO.

 

I was thinking about a quick pitch in addition to the draw [since that's already been mentioned] with Bush using his speed to the edge. Is 3 steps too deep in the backfield to incorporate a pitch?

 

Perhaps. Issue is that it's probably ineffective due to the Force player aggressively pursuing downhill. Just my view of it but I could be totally off.

 

That's why I was curious if we could run an option off it or at least use a shoulder fake to get the force guy to bite. Still probably too risky.

 

I think the pump fake is being greatly undervalued in this conversation. Not that it should be incorporated into every passing play, but it has it's roll in that it helps keep defenders honest.

JMHO...

 

Really. What I find ironic is you obviously did not bother to look at the teams that have had super good records, won the super bowl or went deep into the playoffs in the last five years as I suggested in a previous post. Take a look for yourself and tell all of us how much money ALL of them are spending on their LT. Then look at what we are spending on our LT and tell us all what our record has been the last five years.

Compare all the info and no, Jake Long by far is not worth what we are paying him, not even close. As of this moment, Jake long is not a top 3 tackle in the NFL, not at all. Good player yes, top tackle ? no friggin way